On selecting a proper scope

[Percula]

"beeser"Dirte - Once again, thanks for a heads up. I see now that the MOA-H reticle by Sightron is very similar to the Hawke TMX reticle. I also noticed that the Sightron Model 25016 and 25017(IR version) have 1/4 MOA adjustable turrets. The Hawke Ed has the same but optional 1/8 MOA turrets can be purchased. I don't know if Sightron scopes have that capability or whether it's even important. My reading suggests the 1/8 MOA adjustable turrets are preferred for target shooters. Based on the best pricing I could find online the Sightron SIII IRMOA-H is about $400 more than the Hawke ED. By eliminating the illuminated reticle on the Sightron the price drops to about the same as the Hawke ED. So, what it all comes down to is I have to decide 1) How important is an illuminated reticle? 2)How important is the 1/4 versus 1/8 MOA adjustable turret? 3)Is the Sightron a much better scope than the Hawke, especially with respect to image clarity at higher magnification and if so, is it worth the extra cost? 2)And if it works out the Hawke is a better value is it worth taking a chance on their spotty reputation? This about sums up thinking so far and seems like I'm getting closer to making a decision.

1) IR; really only helpful on black/dark targets, e.g. silhouette animals painted black or all black targets/bulls. BR targets are not benefited with a IR as they all alternate white/black rings or another way to say it, white spaces and black rings. Can also be nice in low light conditions, think hour before/after sun up/set.

2) 1/4 vs 1/8; Not super critical at all. In practice you will likely never notice a spot where you were wishing you had a /18 MOA click instead of a 1/4 MOA click. This is also where having the graduations on the reticle is important, so say one day the environmental conditions force a re-zero and you're DO (dead on) crosshair is between clicks, more times than not you will have a graduation just above or below the center that is DO.

3...) They are very close. Close enough that I ordered a 8-32x56 Sidewinder for my Thomas this week. Opticsplanet has a 20% coupon on them right now too, so $500 becomes $400... The Thomas will only ever really get used at 25m and 50y. I'm also a bit of a gambler too Smart gambler, i.e. poker not craps.

So here is the scope I ordered... (http://www.hawkeoptics.com/sidewinder-8-32x56-20x-mil-dot.html) I'm still LMAO about it! The reticle is graduated in mRAD/MIL and the turret adjustments are in MOA. I'm fine with it as I've learned to switch back and forth between the two easily, I just think its funny mixing and matching like that.

I plan on replacing my Sightron SIISS 10-50x60 LRIRSIL (silhouette retcle with center dot) on the RAW BM500x 30cal with a SIISS 10-50x60 LRIRMOA version and put the silhouette version on my Ruger 10/22 I'm building for NRA smallbore silhouette competition. Having the IR "dot" center will be a benefit on the 22lr (targets are painted black).

You might notice all (3) of those scopes are IR, despite what I said in #1... As long as I'm not paying too much of a premium for IR I'll go ahead and get it with the idea of... 1) resale value and 2) re-purposing at a future date, which in the case of the current scope on my RAW it's perfect for my 10/22. The only caution I would give is to keep an eye on the battery and change it yearly rather you need to or not. They just don't make them like they used to and will leak nastiness sooner or later. 

A tip on bargain hunting these... Make a Amazon wish list with all of the scopes you are considering. Check it a couple of times a day. Amazon and its sellers are pretty crafty about "price matching" and have tools to do it automatically if they choose to turn them on. So some smaller site might put one on sale for a really nice price, someone sees it and reports it to Amazon or they see it themselves and wham, matched. 

 

[Dirte]

I don't think you can go wrong Beeser with the Sightron from many other happy owners. The resale is probably good as well. The Hawke ED still intrigue me though. The nice thing about the 50x scope is it is ranged at 24X MOA and if you shoot on 48X you just can double or half it for easy holdover.
Like I said before..... I never have used the lighted reticle on any of my scopes as of yet.

 

[beeser]

After viewing a YouTube video last night showing a Sightron with a FCH (fine crosshair) reticle I'm feeling a bit of buyer's remorse. It was used on benchrest targets at 50 yards and seemed entirely appropriate for the task at hand, simple and direct. The shooter didn't seem to have any problem correcting for wind by just using the target itself for reference as Percula earlier explained.

 

[jking]

Thanks for the link beeser. It's always nice to see the actual reticle as opposed to what they show on their web site. I think if a guy is looking at the LRMOA he might as well go with the added benefit of the MOA-H. I'm actually wanting one my self really bad. Might even go with the 8-32X56 even though its a 40yd min parallax.
jk

 

[jps2486]

I do a lot of target shooting and have a RAW 30 on the way, plus I shoot TMs and HMs for BR and FT. I've owned a lot of scopes and for what you describe that you are doing with your rifle, any of these will work ok. You will have to choose the reticle that you like best. For FT, I like the Hawke 1/2 20X mildot or the Optisan Viper SCB. For BR at fixed distances, then the fine crosshair is the choice. I have an inexpensive Mueller 8-32X44 target dot which works very well at 25M, but for my new RAW, I bought a Sightron SIII with the fine crosshair reticle. Each scope has it's advantages.

Here's my list of recommendations:

Sightron SIII 10-50X60 fine crosshair or MOA-H (best optical clarity of the bunch)
Hawke Sidewinder 30 8-32X60 or 6-24X56 with the 20X 1/2 mildot (note-I've found that the 8-32 gets kinda dim at 32X)
Optisan Viper SCB reticle 6-24 or 8-32
Hawke Airmax 6-24 or 8-32
Mueller 8-32X44 with target dot or mildot (I prefer the target dot)

I'm sure there are others too, such as March, Nightforce, etc, but now you are talking over $2000.

 

[beeser]

"jps2486"I do a lot of target shooting and have a RAW 30 on the way, plus I shoot TMs and HMs for BR and FT. I've owned a lot of scopes and for what you describe that you are doing with your rifle, any of these will work ok. You will have to choose the reticle that you like best. For FT, I like the Hawke 1/2 20X mildot or the Optisan Viper SCB. For BR at fixed distances, then the fine crosshair is the choice. I have an inexpensive Mueller 8-32X44 target dot which works very well at 25M, but for my new RAW, I bought a Sightron SIII with the fine crosshair reticle. Each scope has it's advantages.

Here's my list of recommendations:

Sightron SIII 10-50X60 fine crosshair or MOA-H (best optical clarity of the bunch)
Hawke Sidewinder 30 8-32X60 or 6-24X56 with the 20X 1/2 mildot (note-I've found that the 8-32 gets kinda dim at 32X)
Optisan Viper SCB reticle 6-24 or 8-32
Hawke Airmax 6-24 or 8-32
Mueller 8-32X44 with target dot or mildot (I prefer the target dot)

I'm sure there are others too, such as March, Nightforce, etc, but now you are talking over $2000.

Thanks jps2486! Both Sightron III 10-50X60 FCH and MOA-H are on order and should arrive next week. The FCH makes the most sense to me but with my very limited experience I won't know until it's tried. What do you think of the Hawke Sidewinder ED 10-50X60?