NV + slow-mo + recording - addon or dedicated scope? Sub$800 discussion

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PrettyPetty

PrettyPetty

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Oct 14, 2022
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SE PA
Interested in video capture with slo-motion for pesting videos (think edgun channel) but don't have his sponsors nor budget..

I see alot of NV digital rigs that provide the capability, wanted to get thoughts on the best deal/ option out there now for sub$800

Looked at ATN and Xsight Wraith for dedicated but then also the Scopemate/ onleaf/ pard for adding option to existing scope.

Non-proprietary file format for video (so I don't have to convert) and good frames per sec matter for slo vids..

I don't have great glass so thinking a dedicated might be best? Is Wraith best for the money right now?
 
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Following as well!

Yeah, interested in slo-mo with those D/NV unit, both clip-on and selfcontained.
And slo-mo in night vision mode!

A few particularities I have noticed:

🔸 Self-contained Day/NV units often have a field of view much smaller than a day-scope with the same bottom end magnification.


🔸 Self-contained Day/NV units don't seem to have an optical zoom, so by increasing the magnification on these units all you do is crop the image and than magnify it with all is grains, fuzzies, and warts (called the "digital zoom" — an electronic sleigth of hands).
The clip-on units use the optical zoom of the day scope — and if that has good glass quality, I suspect the image to be superior to the self-contained units.

This issue becomes more imporant if you want the quarry to loom large in the image like in the EDgun channel.
Unless you're backyard pesting only like EDgun — with very short ranges — you'll be needing a high magnification to accomplish that.


🔸 The clip-on units add several inches to your scope length. For extra short rifles and for pistols this is something to consider.

🔸 The clip-on units are cheaper, because you only have to pay for the camera and the screen.
On the other hand, the self-contained units require you to also pay for the glass of a scope.
If any of them breaks... — the clip-on hurts less to loose.




🤔 Have I just talked myself into getting a clip-on unit....?

Well, let's see what this thread brings to light. 👍🏼

Matthias
 
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My ATN has 120 fps in day mode, but it's not available in night vision mode. In night vision mode, you get 30 fps and the option to go even less to 15fps.

You get up to 2x zoom over base magnification without losing quality on the ATN X-Sight scopes, because they use a 4K sensor and deliver a 1080p image. So on my X-Sight 3-14x 6x gives me a pristine image. 12x gives me useable zoom with noticeable degradation.
 
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JungleShooter said:
Following as well!

Yeah, interested in slo-mo with those D/NV unit, both clip-on and selfcontained.
And slo-mo in night vision mode!

A few particularities I have noticed:


🔸 Self-contained Day/NV units don't seem to have an optical zoom, so by increasing the magnification on these units all you do is crop the image and than magnify it with all is grains, fuzzies, and warts (called the "digital zoom" — an electronic sleigth of hands).
The clip-on units use the optical zoom of the day scope — and if that has good glass quality, I suspect the image to be superior to the self-contained units.

This issue becomes more imporant if you intend to use have the quarry loom large in the image like in the EDgun channel.
Unless you're backyard pesting only like EDgun — with very short ranges — you'll be needing a high magnification to accomplish that.



🤔 Have I just talked myself into getting a clip-on unit....?

Well, let's see what this thread brings to light. 👍🏼

Matthias
Click to expand...
If talking digital scopes/clip-ons there is no difference, unless the digital scope has good enough software to display and record a nicer looking image that is digitally zoomed, then it would be better than a digital clip on by a good bit viewed through a scope. A good gen 3 night vision clip on you can get up in zoom a bit, but used you are probably talking close to 6k for a good one that won't dissapoint(atn NV clip ons are so far out of the ballpark it's not funny, they suck but are serviceable at lower magnification if you get one cheap and used). The digital clip on's screen is also digital (set pixels) display, your scope would be magnifying that digital display, no software to improve image, just optically zooming in on a digital screen. And having a clip on that can actually look nice at 4x or higher magnification, will get you into big dollars, no such thing in the digital world. You want a relatively good looking image at 10x, you are talking 9+K new starting for gen 3 night vision clip on that won't seriously dissapoint you, 15+k for thermal clip on(clipir elr), 20k(voodoo-m) and that much for a used UTC xii. There is no digital night vision clip on that will look decent even at 5x mag, useable yes with enough light, but not good by a long shot and absolutely can't have slow motion with the low framerate.
 
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Well, thank you for the implicit divorce warning your post included:

•Good image at 10x requires 9+K.
•With the option of 20K.


I'm not showing this thread to my wife.
I find it very cool that you even have knowledge of those things....! 👍🏼👍🏼


Now, what's in store for the OP and me at the sub-$800 level? 😊

Matthias
 
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It seems like for the budget shooter it is between the ATN/ Wraith/ Pard for dedicated (lower end models)

And for clip on it is between the Pard / oneleaf/ scopemate ..

I did some searching and there doesn't seem to be a better low budget option between those I originally posted.

So then for the budget minded - dedicated vs clip on?

And then which one for the price/ options?

I am thinking size could be added too as some of this rigs get ridiculous especially on a smaller format leshiy2 or AEA hp ss or dream tac with 300mm barrel (my current setups)

I'm going to go with a ATN pro or Wraith - some black Friday deals live and try it out...
 
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I am looking into the " budget " digital scope deal myself.
Not so much for night vision but for the other uses. ( also hoping it will help with my tired old eyes )

One thing i found by accident is the Wraith 4K mini does offer FFP options in thier reticle selection supposedly .
I am trying to get more info from Sightmark before buying ...
 
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JungleShooter said:
Well, thank you for the implicit divorce warning your post included:

•Good image at 10x requires 9+K.
•With the option of 20K.


I'm not showing this thread to my wife.
I find it very cool that you even have knowledge of those things....! 👍🏼👍🏼


Now, what's in store for the OP and me at the sub-$800 level? 😊

Matthias
Click to expand...
Probably nothing will do what you want in the sub 800 dollar level. The best you might do is a used digital scope that can do frame rates > 60 in good light, not a clip-on. Add in a very strong IR laser illuminator and you may be able to run the digital scope in day mode at night, but I doubt it. I believe their day modes have an IR filter over the sensor, flipped out of the way when switching to night mode. That is what game camera's do for good pictures in daytime, but IR sensitive at night. Don't know without trying. High power laser illuminators are mostly very very expensive. Luna optics elir is the only inexpensive one, and it requires simple 5 minute modification to get full power. Even then I don't think it is as high powered as a real dbal, peq15, etc... By real, I mean a unit made for military, not one of their civilian copies that are very very weak.

By the way, good thermal devices only have a 60hz frame rate, so 60fps is best you could do with them. Kind of leaves you with a really good gen 3 night vision clip on and record through a scope. Just a couple years ago you could get a very good used Knights armament pvs-30 in the 4-6k range. Those refurbed military units that Knight sold are long gone(you can still by a new one though $$$$$), and the people that weren't happy with them and sold them on at a loss has tapered down to somewhat rare. I personally wouldn't want one after handling one, just too big and heavy for me personally, but they are nice and work very well.

Unfortunately there is no inexpensive way to view things clearly at night at any distance beyond somewhere around 50 yards with any kind of magnification much beyond 3x, and have a frame rate high enough to do any kind of slow motion with it.
 
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The FLIR X6900 has about 1000 frames per second. But it's insanely expensive.

Support for FLIR X6900sc MWIR - Discontinued | Teledyne FLIR

Get support for FLIR X6900sc MWIR. Find contact information, downloads, and other resources.
www.flir.ca www.flir.ca

I haven't found any over 60Hz thermal rifle scopes, but I wouldn't be surprised if one existed (and cost over $20,000).
 
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