No more PayPal for me (updated policy allows $2500 seizure)

[silvershooter589]

Pretty ridiculous.... even though it’s something I can’t imagine them policing, knowing they could is enough reason to transact anywhere else...

PayPal has been banning people and groups from using them for purely ideological reasons for years. Often times seizing funds or locking funds for a lengthy period of time.

This is simply furthering the normalization of a social credit score linked to access to financial services. Just wait until the majority of nations roll out their CBDCs (programmable money).

 

[cjtamu]

With all due respect, I dont think I missed that part. Folks seem to miss the part that the $2,500 penalty is assessed after the Buyer has intitiated the investigation and has provided compelling evidence that the Seller engaged in illegal or deceitful activity with the Buyer on the Paypal platform. Paypal is only the sole arbitor of assesing damages to recoup their investigated costs. Sounds reasonable to me.

From the user agreement.
If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal’s damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal’s actual damages.

Go back and read the Restricted Activities section again. Where you agree that in your interactions …”with other PayPal customers, or third parties…” that you won’t do anything defamatory or harassing amongst other things. Again, in PayPal’s sole discretion. They could, under that agreement, see this thread and take the money of anyone they thought defamed them or harassed them. If you can’t see the danger in giving one of your vendors that type of power I can’t help you. But I darn sure what to be one of your vendors!

Edit: Just thought we could use a little recap here. By using PayPal you agree to many things. Some are reasonable, such as not engaging in illegal activities, not defrauding other users, etc. Those related to your decorum while using their platform are I think are reasonable because it's their platform. There are rules on this forum about what you can and can't say as well. Their platform, their rules. But, they're out of line when they you what they will and will not let you spend your own money on. And even further out of line when they tell you that you must agree not to say anything bad about them even OUTSIDE OF THEIR PLATFORM!

And then they throw a bunch of terms around that have strict legal definitions. Slander, libel, fraud, lots of language about local, state, and federal regulations. But rather than any type of due process, you agree to let PayPal decide whether you've committed any of these acts and owe them money. Y'all want to sign up with me for that I'll retire in 6 weeks. Just need to get incorporated in Singapore real quick LOL.

 

[PGinsandiego]

Go back and read the Restricted Activities section again. Where you agree that in your interactions …”with other PayPal customers, or third parties…” that you won’t do anything defamatory or harassing amongst other things. Again, in PayPal’s sole discretion. They could, under that agreement, see this thread and take the money of anyone they thought defamed them or harassed them. If you can’t see the danger in giving one of your vendors that type of power I can’t help you. But I darn sure what to be one of your vendors!

Are you aware that Paypal publicly lists their "third parties"?

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/third-parties-list

 

[cjtamu]

Are you aware that Paypal publicly lists their "third parties"?

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/third-parties-list

Are you aware that a 30 second perusal of that information (from PayPal UK I might add) indicates that info is published, "...as required..." for customers in the EU, EEA, and Switzerland? So, one, they ain't publishing it because of their altruistic nature. Two, it's only applicable in those places. And three, IT'S JUST A LIST OF THE COMPANIES TO WHICH THEY MIGHT PROVIDE YOUR BANKING AND/OR PERSONAL INFO! How can you even try to reconcile that with the rest of their nonsense. Note that when they restrict what you can say to third parties, they don't define that list do they? Hmmm...

 

[kendive]

PayPal has been banning people and groups from using them for purely ideological reasons for years. Often times seizing funds or locking funds for a lengthy period of time.

This is simply furthering the normalization of a social credit score linked to access to financial services. Just wait until the majority of nations roll out their CBDCs (programmable money).

LOL well we can ban Paypal. Which I did yesterday and I know you all said Venmo is paypal but I used Venmo once to sell a fridge a while back it worked and never used it again. So I could probably just close that also.

So seems like all together we hate them all. So I agree with some of you all go back to old school and mail a check and wait for it to clear. Or a Money Order? But it's 2022 we should not have to do this paper stuff.

 

[PGinsandiego]

Are you aware that

Go back and read the Restricted Activities section again. Where you agree that in your interactions …”with other PayPal customers, or third parties…” that you won’t do anything defamatory or harassing amongst other things. Again, in PayPal’s sole discretion. They could, under that agreement, see this thread and take the money of anyone they thought defamed them or harassed them. If you can’t see the danger in giving one of your vendors that type of power I can’t help you. But I darn sure what to be one of your vendors!

I would be the first to admit that it needs to be written more clrearlya nd it has been a PR nightmare for them. But the contract intent is obvious. However, Lets go down your road. Please explain a senario where Paypal willingly takes your $2500 simply because they dont like what you said, without killing their $100B company.

 

[ciscodilla]

PP is on its way out, especially since they separated from Ebay. BTW Venmo is also affiliated with PP. Zelle is the way to go.

 

[PGinsandiego]

I would be the first to admit that it needs to be written more clrearly and it has been a PR nightmare for Paypal. But the contract intent is obvious. However, Lets go down your road. Please explain a senario where Paypal willingly takes your $2500 and others in your group simply because they dont like what you said, without killing their $100B company. Any lawyer would easily prove in a court of law that the intent and meaning was within the scope and parameters of only using their pay platform. So how did you see your senario playing out?

 

[cjtamu]

Are you aware that


I would be the first to admit that it needs to be written more clrearlya nd it has been a PR nightmare for them. But the contract intent is obvious. However, Lets go down your road. Please explain a senario where Paypal willingly takes your $2500 simply because they dont like what you said, without killing their $100B company.

Good grief. Go back and look at the Q2 earnings and stock prices I posted previously. And they took an even bigger beating after this fiasco. They ARE killing their company with their attempts to regulate how you spend your money LOL. The scope and intent of those articles is clearly NOT only within the use of their platform because that’s already addressed in other portions of their user agreement. You don’t have access to or interaction with their third-party transactional entities so they’re clearly not talking about them. And a lawsuit is ludicrous. Do you have the wherewithal to file and fund a suit against a $100B Singapore-based company? Mad respect to you if you do. Not going to be cheap. Or easy.

 

[darylm]

Edit: "PayPal did not reinstate a $2,500 fine for spreading misinformation. The user agreement has had policies that prohibit providing “misleading information” in connection with the platform as well as language outlining its right to assess $2,500 in damages for violations since 2015" (Fox News,10.27.2022)

Fox news: https://www.fox43.com/article/news/...heck/536-046ac35d-c1a4-409e-bba7-aedab15ef04d

Regardless, This does not seem to be a 1st amendment issue, because the context of "misinoformation" as a deterrent to deceit and potential fraud in the course of conducting business, not restrict free speech. Or am I missing something here?

You don’t understand how the world works, do you.

 

[PGinsandiego]

Like I said, The Paypal user agreement is vague. Someone there needs to be fired because this will quickly turn into a disaster.

 

[PGinsandiego]

You don’t understand how the world works, do you.

Those are Fox News words, not mine.

 

[kendive]

PP is on its way out, especially since they separated from Ebay. BTW Venmo is also affiliated with PP. Zelle is the way to go.

NO Zelle is not the way to go.

Lawsuit claims Bank of America failed to warn customers they might get scammed using Zelle

The suit says Bank of America is aware of the risks to customers, but still "touts Zelle as a secure, free and convenient way to make money transfers."

abc11.com

7 Things To Know Before You Use Zelle

Zelle is a popular money-transfer app that sends cash almost instantly. But how safe is your money? Here's know to use Zelle safely.

clark.com

Hi! Clark’s warnings about Zelle has several layers.

I. It’s owned by several of the big monster mega-banks who only have their best interests in mind.
2. The banks automatically attach it to most bank accounts without permission or any opt-in feature, which misleads many customers into thinking it’s “bank approved” or safer than the other payment apps.
3. His biggest issue is that there are no consumer protections. If someone steals money out of your regular bank account, the banks are responsible for replacing your money, if it’s a valid theft claim. If someone steals money out of your account via Zelle, the banks are not liable and will not replace the money although they own the app. This is why they are pushing their customers to use Zelle - no responsibility.

Sounds like you’re using Zelle the best way - by only having a small amount of money in the account it’s attached to. This is the way Clark recommends we use ALL payment apps, so that criminals don’t have access to your housing & food money. Unfortunately, many people are not doing this and end up losing all of the money they need for essential monthly expenses in their accounts.

Hope this sheds more light!

 

[ciscodilla]

Interesting...I have 2FA on all my major accounts and would be next to impossible for a hacker to get into my account without my permission. However, I did not know that Banks did not protect the consumers from hackers when using Zelle to move money out.

 

[shausen]

Interesting...I have 2FA on all my major accounts and would be next to impossible for a hacker to get into my account without my permission. However, I did not know that Banks did not protect the consumers from hackers when using Zelle to move money out.

From the WF Zelle site:

"Send money to people you know and trust

Whether it's across the hall or across the country, you can safely send and receive money with friends, family, and others with a U.S. bank account."

Zelle wanted to get in on the popularity of Venmo, which also has no consumer protection. Paypal has always been about sales transactions (when it was adopted into ebay, etc until their recent de-merger) but Venmo got traction with the younger set sending money to each other. Paypal now owns Venmo, but like Zelle, it's really just for sending money to your kids, pals or your dealer. Someone you trust. If there's a problem, you're outta luck.

 

[jps2486]

FYI


Florida Family Association has reported several times over the past four years that PayPal deactivated our account because of our conservative, Christian positions and stances on important issues. PayPal has deactivated the accounts of many other conservative organizations including BareNakedIslam.org which recently published these articles titled Customers abandoning PayPal in droves andPayPal BUSTED AGAIN for burying in its Terms of Service the $2,500 fine for customers using “wrong think.”

Conservative organization news reports issued over the past five years regarding PayPal’s censorship has taken a toll on its profits. Liberal news outlets have issued reports that tow the PayPal excuse line or cover for the company.

The bottom line is PayPal’s stock is down $147.92 or 63.96% from its $246.57 high a year ago. Woke policy is catching up with PayPal. It is also catching up with Facebook (Meta Platforms) whose stock is down $235.24 or 71.29% from its $328.69 high a year ago as well as Netflix whose stock is down $391.10 or 57.42% from its $671.66 high a year ago. The combination of consumer attitudes toward corporate wokeness and alternative products and services has caused financial hardship for PayPal, Facebook and Netflix. The above numbers were reported on November 1, 2022 at approximately 11:30 am.

Many consumers are using other payment options including Google Pay, Apple Pay, Amazon Pay, Square, Venmo, Zelle, Payoneer, etc. The only problem is will woke driven Google, Apple or Amazon, all of which have censorship history, eventually censor customers of their pay services.

It is truly unfortunate that PayPal departed from its primary mission to provide payment services by embarking on denying services to people and organizations that think differently than PayPal. It is encouraging to see the market choosing alternatives to PayPal, Facebook and Netflix.