Newbie's quest to reduce Impact FPS deviation and spread

Hey everyone



Here is my question: what is a good standard deviation and spread? Impact is known for extreme accuracy and consistency if tuned right but I'm currently getting quite wide spread and deviation. At what deviation are you guys getting when you get extreme consistency? 

My last 10 shots started great but then went all over the place:
Shot count: 10
Low: 691
Hi: 735
Avg: 714
Spread: 44
STD Dev: 14.4
705
696
735
726
728
717
717
703
691
719


not sure if at lower power/speed it’s more difficult to be consistent but with all the fancy gizmo and price tag the impact has I figured it would be a flat line when it comes to FPS. 





Thanks in advance!
 
I watched that video a few times already along with some of his other videos. I’m working on getting this harmony between the settings like he mentions. A little different from how Earnest does it but earnest is always going for high performance, I’m aiming for low power for back yard. 


my main question is what’s a good deviation and spread? I’m hoping to see less than 5 deviation and less than 10 spread and I get that at some short strings but not over 10 shots and especially if I let the gun sit for a minute or few minutes then it’s off again. Could my challenge might simply be the impact parts doesn’t have enough tension to be consistent at lower power? But with .177 the power is probably sitting lower than what mine is currently sitting at. 
 
qball:

For some reason I've seen the very same question that you are asking time and again...every new member asks the same question and they all expect a "Receipee"for an answer...There are lots of threads discussing the topic and you tube is plagged with "How to tune videos"...There is also a vast of information in the the database of this forum; search for "FX", "FX Tunning"or similar wording and go though all the information in those threads...

The receipee that some lazy people want means: What pellet to use, what velocity, what regulator pressure, what valve setting (if available) and trying to apply such an answer to your gun is not possible, every gun is different and reacts differently to the same tweaks...Read what velocities are people shooting as a ballpark and start from there.

You question don't specify: Caliber, brand and weight of pellets, regulator's pressure and valve setting, length of barrel, etc....This info is MANDATORY to start a conversatiion...Then you do not say if you are weighing and head sizing pellets, if you are not, this is a "MUST DO" to start tunning a gun; pellet tins usually come with a "Statistical Normal Distribution Curve" and you will encounter discrepancies that frequently go as high as 2 grains and I have seen as much as 4-5 gr...Buy a pellet gauge and use it for measuring heads.

Weighing pellets is MANDATORY for checking velocity consistency, then you will have to measure the heads of the pellets whenever you start tunning for accuracy....Your question about the minimum standard deviation or velocity spread shows that you have some misconception: A low standard deviation/spread does NOT mean better precision, you can have a gun with 5-7 fps, spread over a 20-30 shot group vs. another with 10-15 fps. spread and the later one coulde be more precise...If you want to know what is a good spread consider 1% of the velocity that you are shooting a very good number, but you can get slightly lower numbers. If anyone tells you that they are shooting 2-4 fps. over a 30-50 shot group don't listen to that, 2-3 fps. consistency over a series on long strings is JUST NOT POSSIBLE...Remeber that for achieving a 1% spread you will need to VERY PRECISELY weigh and head size your pellets, if you are shooting from the tin don't expect less than 20 +- fps. spread and many times more because every tin has about 2% of SCRAP pellets that weigh 4-5 grains more or less than the rest and those will be flyers without any precision... 

Bottomline: Read time and again all the tunning threads and watch time and again all the You Tube videos about the same topic...Don't ask for a receipee, doing so denotes lazinessand and copying whatever others are doing is starting a tunning with your left foot.

Lastly: This forum is not an exception to the "Internet World Champions" who shoot with their keyboards, don't believe everything you read because there are some big egos behing a kehyboard shooting 1/4" and smaller groups at 100 yards and farther distances; you read those claims and try to emulate their claims and you will be frustrated...Use your brain (you should have plenty of that) to discriminate between reliable credible good info and BS.

Regards,

AZ 
 
qball:

YES, YOU ARE ASKING HOW TO TUNE THE GUN!...

A gun is tuned by setting the right BAR pressure, dwell (valce timing), correct velocity, etc. and most of your questioning is related to these tunning variables.



You say: 

"In my quest to find extreme consistency or very low deviation and spread. all At what deviation gives you guys smest group?

"How do you guys get there? "

My response above answers all of this and again, this is asking for a receipee and tunning information...



Then you ask: "what is a good standard deviation and spread? "

In both questions you are asking for a receipee...



Lastly: You do not provide the appropiate information (Pellets, brand, weighing, head sizing, etc.)..start by watching and listening to what he says in this video and this will take you to minimizing your spread and SD: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K9uG2KOPt0




 
Q, I can usually get fairly easily to a 6-8 fps extreme spread over 20 shots straight from the tin.

I think because your trying for a low velocity its making it harder for you. Dont have a 25, but bet 80 bar would shoot the 25's close to 850- 900 tuned properly, Or like Ernest suggests?

If the above is true, drop the reg to 70 bar and try again. Mine functions fine at 70.
 
qball, you say you are aiming for low power for backyard work. What is the target telling you at that distance? I think you are fussing too much over chrono numbers. My guess, at that level of low power, you might need a spring change to get the best velocity consistency. But why bother? I bet your accuracy is fine for your close range use, so why compromise the higher power option? What results do you get when you crank it up to a more "normal" power range? I bet a lot better. If you really want a backyard gun, get a 12 fpe non-FAC Euro gun and be happy. Just my opinion, my wife says I'm always wrong. 
 
Qball:

I wouldn't suggest lower BAR (reg) than 100 BAR and up to 120-130 BAR for a .25...The Impact reg is not designed to operate efiicently/consistently at lower pressures...The factory ships all calibers at 100 -120 BAR pressures.

Lower BAR settings require a longer Dwell and this means inconsistecy/less precision...You want a short burst of HIGH PRESSURE vs. a long burst of low pressure.

25.39 gr. pellets require MUCH HIGHER velocities to shoot well...Target for 875-900 fps. to start with and fine tune it up and down for best precisiion...I don't know what version of Impact you have: If it is an older MKI you would need around 140 BAR to push those 25.39's at 900 fps. velocities, if you have a Power Plenum MKII you would be around 120-130 BAR for the same velocities...Some people shoot those pellets at 975-1000 fps, but for that you will require 140-150 BAR; I don't own a .25 but I do have a .22 and shoot the same weigh pellets at 890 fps.



Above this reply says: "If you really want a backyard gun, get a 12 fpe non-FAC Euro gun and be happy. Just my opinion, my wife says I'm always wrong"...That is very good advice.
 
Qball:

I wouldn't suggest lower BAR (reg) than 100 BAR and up to 120-130 BAR for a .25...The Impact reg is not designed to operate efiicently/consistently at lower pressures...The factory ships all calibers at 100 -120 BAR pressures.

Lower BAR settings require a longer Dwell and this means inconsistecy/less precision...You want a short burst of HIGH PRESSURE vs. a long burst of low pressure.

25.39 gr. pellets require MUCH HIGHER velocities to shoot well...Target for 875-900 fps. to start with and fine tune it up and down for best precisiion...I don't know what version of Impact you have: If it is an older MKI you would need around 140 BAR to push those 25.39's at 900 fps. velocities, if you have a Power Plenum MKII you would be around 120-130 BAR for the same velocities...Some people shoot those pellets at 975-1000 fps, but for that you will require 140-150 BAR; I don't own a .25 but I do have a .22 and shoot the same weigh pellets at 890 fps.



Above this reply says: "If you really want a backyard gun, get a 12 fpe non-FAC Euro gun and be happy. Just my opinion, my wife says I'm always wrong"...That is very good advice.





Things have changed with the mk11. From the factory my reg was set at 80 bar. Currently at 75 bar for over 4000 pellets and holds rock solid..
 
"Things have changed with the mk11. From the factory my reg was set at 80 bar. Currently at 75 bar for over 4000 pellets and holds rock solid.."

Exactly!... Read LOW pressures LONG Dwell as explained above...Compete at RMAC, EBR, Quail Creek Invitational and other good tournaments with that "Rock solid gun of yours" set the way it is and you will understand what I am talking about...I didn't say that is not possible to shoot low reg BAR pressures, I explained what is best for precision.

I will no longer be participating in this thread QBALL...I have said all that I can advice you and you have read other opposing theories; It is up to you to do whatever you feel is the road to follow...In any case, watch those videos about tuning your gun.

Good luck with your tuning project,

AZ
 
"Things have changed with the mk11. From the factory my reg was set at 80 bar. Currently at 75 bar for over 4000 pellets and holds rock solid.."

Exactly!... Read LOW pressures LONG Dwell as explained above...Compete at RMAC, EBR, Quail Creek Invitational and other good tournaments with that "Rock solid gun of yours" set the way it is and you will understand what I am talking about...I didn't say that is not possible to shoot low reg BAR pressures, I explained what is best for precision.

I will no longer be participating in this thread QBALL...I have said all that I can advice you and you have read other opposing theories; It is up to you to do whatever you feel is the road to follow.,,

Good luck with your tuning project,

AZ



Absolutely NOT LONG DWELL!! Tuned Exactly like Ernest suggests. Have you tuned a new power plenum? At 115 bar the rifle pushes 22 caliber 25 grain redesigned monsters at 50 ft/lbs. So with your ultimate wisdom, the OP's rifle would be tuned a half mile below the knee of his power curve. Super awesome for a tight extreme spread. And exactly what i believe he is experiencing now trying to run at 700fps. Couple that with a little reg creep and its obvious hes below optimal hammer strike for the presure. Have a good day. 👍
 
Q, I can usually get fairly easily to a 6-8 fps extreme spread over 20 shots straight from the tin.

I think because your trying for a low velocity its making it harder for you. Dont have a 25, but bet 80 bar would shoot the 25's close to 850- 900 tuned properly, Or like Ernest suggests?

If the above is true, drop the reg to 70 bar and try again. Mine functions fine at 70.



Wow, 6 is really awesome spread! your deviation must of be around 2-4 at the most! what's your FPS?

So I tried different configurations and I was at 60 bars and lower hammer spring preload with maybe a slightly better spread? Although my impact would once a while make an unhappy sound, almost like fart or burp, the hammer sounded like it bounced and leaked air. Watched airgun tuna guy's low power tune video and follow his advise and raised the Reg and hammer but close the valve more to limit the travel. Maybe I need to watch it again and if my memory serves me correct he was still running a bit faster than me.

Maybe my quest for super consistent sub 700 FPS tune is a bit futile? For reference the factory tune of 920 FPS with 25.4g JSB king did have pretty darn good consistency.
 
qball, you say you are aiming for low power for backyard work. What is the target telling you at that distance? I think you are fussing too much over chrono numbers. My guess, at that level of low power, you might need a spring change to get the best velocity consistency. But why bother? I bet your accuracy is fine for your close range use, so why compromise the higher power option? What results do you get when you crank it up to a more "normal" power range? I bet a lot better. If you really want a backyard gun, get a 12 fpe non-FAC Euro gun and be happy. Just my opinion, my wife says I'm always wrong.



you might be right on the hammer spring change, might raise the target speed to around 750-800 and see how the spread goes. As far as accuracy goes it's very good most of the time, just one a while I get a couple of shots too low or too high which doesn't give me the confidence when I need to make that head shot in the backyard. I am drooling over dreamline lite compact, need to wait a while since the impact is only a month old. Doh!
 
Qball:

I wouldn't suggest lower BAR (reg) than 100 BAR and up to 120-130 BAR for a .25...The Impact reg is not designed to operate efiicently/consistently at lower pressures...The factory ships all calibers at 100 -120 BAR pressures.

Lower BAR settings require a longer Dwell and this means inconsistecy/less precision...You want a short burst of HIGH PRESSURE vs. a long burst of low pressure.

25.39 gr. pellets require MUCH HIGHER velocities to shoot well...Target for 875-900 fps. to start with and fine tune it up and down for best precisiion...I don't know what version of Impact you have: If it is an older MKI you would need around 140 BAR to push those 25.39's at 900 fps. velocities, if you have a Power Plenum MKII you would be around 120-130 BAR for the same velocities...Some people shoot those pellets at 975-1000 fps, but for that you will require 140-150 BAR; I don't own a .25 but I do have a .22 and shoot the same weigh pellets at 890 fps.



Above this reply says: "If you really want a backyard gun, get a 12 fpe non-FAC Euro gun and be happy. Just my opinion, my wife says I'm always wrong"...That is very good advice.



my impact came from utah airgun at 90 bars shooting JSB king 25.4g pellets @ 920FPS, maybe because it has the power plenum? Even at 60 bars I was able to shoot over 800 FPS if I turn up the hammer spring, which make figuring out the "harmonious" relationship between regulator pressure and hammer spring force a little difficult.
 

Absolutely NOT LONG DWELL!! Tuned Exactly like Ernest suggests. Have you tuned a new power plenum? At 115 bar the rifle pushes 22 caliber 25 grain redesigned monsters at 50 ft/lbs. So with your ultimate wisdom, the OP's rifle would be tuned a half mile below the knee of his power curve. Super awesome for a tight extreme spread. And exactly what i believe he is experiencing now trying to run at 700fps. Couple that with a little reg creep and its obvious hes below optimal hammer strike for the presure. Have a good day. 👍



My suspicion is around optimum hammer pressure for the regulator pressure but I wasn't sure which way, like AZ was pointing out that 80 bars is a little low for impact traditionally but with the power plenum the whole equation seemed to change quite a bit even though it's only 25% bigger. Most of the tuning videos were made before the power plenum.

Think I'll lower the reg pressure to 70 bar and open up the valve just a bit to get to 700-750FPS and see if I can get more consistency out of it.

Thanks for the insight. 👍
 

Absolutely NOT LONG DWELL!! Tuned Exactly like Ernest suggests. Have you tuned a new power plenum? At 115 bar the rifle pushes 22 caliber 25 grain redesigned monsters at 50 ft/lbs. So with your ultimate wisdom, the OP's rifle would be tuned a half mile below the knee of his power curve. Super awesome for a tight extreme spread. And exactly what i believe he is experiencing now trying to run at 700fps. Couple that with a little reg creep and its obvious hes below optimal hammer strike for the presure. Have a good day. 👍



My suspicion is around optimum hammer pressure for the regulator pressure but I wasn't sure which way, like AZ was pointing out that 80 bars is a little low for impact traditionally but with the power plenum the whole equation seemed to change quite a bit even though it's only 25% bigger. Most of the tuning videos were made before the power plenum.

Think I'll lower the reg pressure to 70 bar and open up the valve just a bit to get to 700-750FPS and see if I can get more consistency out of it.

Thanks for the insight. 👍



No. Back the hammer spring off and start fresh, open the valve just past the 4th line. And see where it tops out/ quits gaining velocity just like the vid. THEN start turning in the valve to bring it down.
 

No. Back the hammer spring off and start fresh, open the valve just past the 4th line. And see where it tops out/ quits gaining velocity just like the vid. THEN start turning in the valve to bring it down.



Well, I didn't quite do that but got to about the same place kind of sort of. I put my regulator at 70 bars, increased the hammer preload and then back it off a little. I found the spot where higher hammer setting will decrease speed and so will lower hammer setting so in theory that's the sweet spot. My valve is just above 1 line and now I'm at 760 FPS and relatively consistent with spread of 16 and standard deviation of 6 which isn't bad at all. However one a while my impact simply doesn't sound normal, I can have a good string all within 5 FPS and then 1 shot that might not be too off but it sounds really off.

Need to order more pellets and might start fresh again next few days just to see if I can do better. Now I have the goal of sub 6 spread!



Thanks again for the pointers.