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New to the Forum... Looking for advice

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DrGunner

Member
Aug 4, 2019
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Hello- 

I’m new here, not new to airguns or forum life.

I’ve been thinking on this for a while and decided to join up, introduce myself, say hello and ask my first question of the knowledgeable folk here.

I’ve been an avid shooter of airguns, rimfires, centerfire rifles, pistols & shotguns for 45 years.

I’m looking for a rifle to fill a specific role. I shoot NRA smallbore silhouette, which uses .22 rimfire rifles to shoot metal targets, offhand from 40, 60, 77, & 100m. I Currently practice in my backyard using an older RWS Diana model 36 springer, shooting from 25 yards at scaled down cutouts of the official targets that I make from Birchwood Casey ShootnC targets.

My trusty old RWS is plenty accurate, but it’s rather heavy and the reverse/double recoil of a springer is not an accurate representation of shooting a rimfire. I’m not looking to copy rimfire recoil, but would like something that does not have a heavy spring recoil & piston slamming back-and-forth.

Smallbore silhouette has rules regarding equipment-A rifle and scope combined must weigh no more than 8.5 pounds, and the stock has to be a traditional sporter style, without an elevated comb (above the bore) or any adjustable moving parts. Trigger must be 2lb or over.

Im thinking a PCP would do nicely, but I have never owned one. Please educate me in the appropriate models available and cost of getting set up with a PCP for this purpose. I’d like to find something that resembles a traditional sporter/hunting stock or silhouette stock.

For what it’s worth – I shoot .177 pellets for silhouette practice now and they work fine for my purpose.



Looking forward to learning from the experts-



Regards,



DrGunner 



EDIT- I just noticed there’s a silhouette section on this board. Moderators, please move this thread if that’s appropriate... Sorry, Noob mistake 
 
Welcome aboard.

You're good on "General Discussion".

Have you looked at the Daystate Huntsman Regal XL, or the FX Royale 400? These are 2 air rifles with traditional styling. I own a Regal in .177 cal and this rifle -- unregulated -- is very accurate and has a high shot count 70-80 on a 210 bar fill before changing POI.

I won't attempt to speak to the cost of getting started as prices have dropped a bit since I purchased my first airgun a few years ago. Also, there are ways to cut costs by acquiring high-quality used accessories. 
 
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HI welcome DR gunner , I am a hunter and I shoot 22 , 25 and 30 calibers , I shoot mosty 25 to 250 yards , and I shoot pelets and slugs , Air guns came a long way in past decade .

The springers you shoot have alot of violence but the new pcp guns are like mini sniper rifles and very very accurate , There is a class of pcp designed for bench rest which are heavier guns usually a single shot ,

Then their is the guns which are light for hunting and can be accurate to shoot sub moa at 100 yards . and can be tuned to shoot slugs very precise ,These are guns I own ,here are some brands I use

FX wildcat and royale , in 22 30 to 35fpe good for target and hunting closer ranges

Edgun , R5-30 caliber , a lazer and shoots slugs sub moa @ 90+ fpe

edgun r5m 22 ,long great gun sub moa can shoot pellets and slugs up to 67fpe

edgun leshiy 27fpe , 4 pound fun gun accurate pellets only 22 cal

edgun lelys 25 cal great hunting gun , for medium ranges 25 cal 35fpe

taipan veteran 365fpe 22 cal super accurate 22 best trigger accurate to 150M great for hunting and target light slugs or pellets

Kaliber cricket 22 cal 30fpe gun good medium range pellet gun only

air arms s510 , great 22 caliber pellet gun bench or hunting

spa p12 , 22 cal single shot no frills but accurate entry level

so many choices , it depends on cost and power you need and preference



Once you get gun you need a way to fill it a pump is 150 to 300 but is very hard to do I cant do it

so I bought a air tank for $500 , and used a scuba shop to fill it for $10

then I bought a compressor to fill my tanks they cost from $200 to $4000

so expensive to get into pcp guns but after you set up it is cheap ,

also you will notice the pcp guns cost way more then rimfire guns why?

I think cause they can get this kind of money pcp guns range from $300 to $2500

I hope this helps


 
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If I were starting today, what would I buy? With the rule restrictions, that could be interesting.

The Infrastructure for a PCP is expensive to get started (the air tank being the biggest part). If you have a scuba shop or a paintball shop nearby that will fill your tank, that'll help lots. You can worry about a compressor later.

You can go two ways on guns. Inexpensive, such as the Crosman Fortitude. Fits all the rules, is regulated, and comes in at about 5.5 pounds $300. If you can go a bit more expensive, try the FX Royal or order a FX Dreamline Classic. The Classic is about $1000, the Royal around $1700. AoA has a used Royal in .177 for $800, so considering condition, might be another option. Triggers are incredible and you might need to make them a bit heavier.

As others said, once you get the infrastructure setup, then it's just the guns. Pellets, JSB run under $.05 each, so practice isn't too bad. Virtually NO recoil.

Were I doing what you are doing, I'd probably go with the Dreamline Classic. Moderate cost and incredibly accurate.

Can't go wrong on about any modern PCP, it's like taking a multiple choice test. 4 right answers, some are just more right than others.
 
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2manyAirGunz- The stock on the Daystate Huntsman Regal XL looks a LOT like the stock on the rifle I shoot in matches- an Anschutz 1712.

I looked at it, beautiful rifle but a bit out of my price range. I was hoping to keep my expenditure around $1000, Rifle and equipment. I am a scuba diver, so buying a tank would be a win – win. I probably should’ve mentioned this in my OP. So, given the info posted so far with the other equipment costs necessary, I suppose I should start looking in the $500 range for a rifle.
 
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Makoda- good point on the 22 caliber. I guess the reason that I shied away from it is because I own and RWS 350 magnum in .22, and it is a behemoth coming in at 11.5 pounds.

Im guessing these PCPs are much more accurate than my old springers... I’ve seen some threads here discussing 100-300 yard groups!?!?!



General question for y’all- I’ve had to do the Captcha thing for every darn post!!? Does that go away at some point in one’s membership?Im a moderator on RimfireCentral.com (same screen name), and that would drive me crazy!



At present, my Airgun practice for NRA smallbore silhouette acounts for maybe 10-20% of my practice- the rest being 10% dry fire exercises and the remainder shooting NRA official size swinger targets at the actual 4 distances seen in a match.

If y’all could give me suggestions for a rifle in the $500-700 range, that would be great. My main silhouette rifle was over $2K, scope $900.



Which brings up another question- do PCPs come with Picatinny scope rails, or can they be added?

Most of my rifle scopes are mounted with Leupold QRW or Warne Maxima QD rings, so it would be nice if I could use any of them on this rifle.



Thanks again for all the helpful responses- you folks are great!



(Probably going to be good at spending my money, lol)



Respectfully,



DrGunner 
 
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Makota- Thanks, I will check those out. Most air rifles don’t list rifle weight in their ad specs, which is annoying. I’d like to keep this close to NRA smallbore silhouette weight, meaning the rifle would need to be around 7-7.5lb max. Heavier is ok- to a point, as it helps build strength and hold stamina. A full silhouette match is 80 shots, shot in groups of 5, timed with 2.5 minutes per station. By the time we get to the last 10 shots, it’s often “drive by shooting”, trying to break the shot when the crosshairs are actually ON the desired POA.

Do PCPs generally run light, compared to springers? I would think so...

DrG 
 
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my pcp guns weigh from 4 pounds leshiy 12 inch barrel to a 30 calibr with 27 inch barrel at about 8.5 pounds to 9 pounds , they you need to add an optic and doing bench rest some of those 34mm hi power scopes can weigh 2 to 3.5 pounds . and a bipod 14 ounces ,so a fitted gun can be 6 to 11 pounds . heavier better for bench work



what optics do you use ?
 
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jwrabbit123-

my silhouette scopes are: 2 Sightron SII Big Sky 6-24x42 Silhouette scopes, a Leupold VX3i 6.5-20x40 EFR, and a Leupold FX3 30X fixed. Both Leupolds have reticles upgraded to the 1/2” Leupold dot. 

I generally start the season with the variables and as my hold improves throughout practice and matches, I use higher magnification at all distances, and swap to the 30X fixed.



all of them weigh around 17oz, and are mounted on Morr Accuracy Silhouette rings or D3 Precision Silhouette rings, which weigh less than 3 oz/pair.



DrG
 
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SteveV- My desire to get into a PCP and away from my springer has absolutely nothing to do with proficiency, Sir. I do just fine with my RWS 36 as far as scoring goes, often matching what I do with my rimfires. I should be comfy with it, since I bought it new in 1985, lol. My desire for the change has to do with consistent follow through after each shot. As I’m sure you are well aware, springers tend to bounce all over the place when you break the sear, which is a critical time for offhand shooting. Observing what the rifle is doing or what I am doing with it, especially when the shot breaks and just after, is paramount in finding consistency. Watching the crosshairs through and beyond the shot break is just as important as every other component of good technique in silhouette shooting, and I simply cannot make accurate observations with a springer.



Besides that, the only scopes in my price range for that old rifle that seem to withstand the punishing recoil over time are UTGs, and they run heavy.

I just weighed my RWS 36 w/UTG 4-16 Compact and it tips the scales at 10lb, 4oz. Aside from the rifles weight, there’s the workout I get while repeatedly cocking the rifle... that’s energy and muscle fatigue in my arms, which I need somewhat relaxed to maintain a good hold for 40-80 offhand shots, on a timer allowing 30 seconds per shot.

Because it’s a timed match, practicing without the time constraint leaves many shooters ill prepared on match day.

A heavy rifle is good for building strength, but I’d probably benefit more from the ability to shoot more rounds in practice, without spending my arms cocking the rifle 40-80 times- with the added benefit of being able to actually SEE what is happening.



I’d love to run my high end silhouette scopes during practice, but won’t subject them to springer recoil.



BTW- I have 3 RWS rifles. A 45 in .177, 36 in .177, and 350Magnum in .22. For springers, they’re excellent rifles. I’m not sure what present day production is like, but mine were all bought in the mid to late 1980s to early 1990s. The 45 and 36 have been back to Umarex USA for lifetime warrantee rebuild which is a great deal. $140 Pays for round-trip shipping, full rebuild with replacement of all wearable parts, seals and new mainspring.



DrG 
 
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rustynuts- I agree- RimfireCentral is a great forum- very helpful community. We try to keep things running in the spirit that Indy- the late founder intended. The rules here are similar, and I gotta say y’all are a really great bunch of helpful folks!



Ill check out the Fortitude... Someone else mentioned a Crosman Fortitude. I searched it, came up with a Benjamin Fortitude... Same rifle?



Stop by RFC some time- I moderate ? Somewhere around 14 subforums including all the Ruger 10-22 sections. I started an annual contest in the Ultimate 10-22 forum some years ago. We haven’t run a contest in a while, but there’s an entire sub forum dedicated to the contest rifles. Some really cool stuff in there.



DrG
 
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HeyU- Thanks, I will definitely check it out!



socaloldman- now CZ is a name I know well- I own 6 of them. In fact, my first NRA smallbore silhouette match rifle was a CZ452 Varmint in a custom stock built by Wayne Merier. I still have it; it’s my backup & bad weather rifle, to use when I don’t want my 1712 to get wet, she’s kind of a safe queen.



Ill definitely czech those out!



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