New slugs Altaros ATP Queen .25 60g - BC 0.245 - suitable for FX Panthera magazine

[Altaros]

We have added to eshop the new ATP Queen slugs in .25 caliber, which have a length of 12.9mm and are therefore compatible with the FX Panthera magazine.
They have a similar shape to the ATP King, which works very well in many types of barrels.
BC G1 0.245 and better is used function G7 0.128 .

https://www.militaryairgun.com/domu/213-atp-queen-635mm-25.html

It si also the best option for Altaros M24 .25 in terms of precision and BC.

ATP Queen is a shortened and therefore lighter version of ATP King

 

[iAMzehTOASTY1]

Looks cool!

 

[Shooting Targets]

Yea man..... Very interested in it....

 

[Airfuture]

The FX Panthera can spit it out at 900 fps

 

[Healthservices]

Question, what speed will this slug shoot well at? I know from past experience the .22 40gr kings shot well at 880 to 900 in my 800mm impact but disliked the high speeds setup that other brand slugs work well in. Is the 60 grain .25 similar?

Allen

 

[Altaros]

Since we are using a short 600mm barrel, I haven't yet had the opportunity to move them to more than 260m/s, 853fps, as I currently don't have the power for more speed (which will hopefully change soon).
In general, we recommend keeping slug below 300m/s - 980fps, and from the point of view of wind efficiency, even a speed of 260-280 m/s 850-920 fps is suitable. ( this is not a dogma, I shoot 5.50 King very accurately even at 306 m/s)

I'm not sure if even the FX panthera will be able to shoot them faster than 280-290ms 950fps .

 

[Healthservices]

Oh boy, what did I get myself into ?


Allen

 

[Centercut]

The FX Panthera can spit it out at 900 fps

Yes, and no. Yes, with very high reg pressure (180 bar?) and tungsten hammer weight. 110 FPE in .25 will make the gun very jumpy and hard to shoot. I know, since with the 49.5 grain Altaros it is very accurate (I shoot it at 885 fps - 86 FPE), but over 90 FPE the gun just doesn't feel right, and the shot count goes down exponentially. I'd estimate less than 10 shots per fill at 110 FPE, maybe less. Don't forget one of my favorite sayings, Accuracy ALWAYS trumps Power... And BC going from 0.21 to 0.24 isn't that great an advantage anyway... It's a tradeoff and you never get something for nothing...

 

[steve123]

Looking at my app you only get .1 mil wind advantage at 100Y in a 10 mph full value with the 60gr vs the 49.5gr but at 200Y you get a .2 mil advantage with the 60gr. That is both at 100 fpe.

The question then becomes which provides the most precision and lowest ES in the gun. Self spotting might be easier with the 60gr??

For XFT I want a .5 BC slug going 500 fps so I can see it flying in the air going towards the target and make out where it went. JK

Fun stuff!

 

[Airfuture]

Yes, and no. Yes, with very high reg pressure (180 bar?) and tungsten hammer weight. 110 FPE in .25 will make the gun very jumpy and hard to shoot. I know, since with the 49.5 grain Altaros it is very accurate (I shoot it at 885 fps - 86 FPE), but over 90 FPE the gun just doesn't feel right, and the shot count goes down exponentially. I'd estimate less than 10 shots per fill at 110 FPE, maybe less. Don't forget one of my favorite sayings, Accuracy ALWAYS trumps Power... And BC going from 0.21 to 0.24 isn't that great an advantage anyway... It's a tradeoff and you never get something for nothing...

I know, I know, that's why I expect FX to make an electronically controlled balanced valve as soon as possible, mechanics are an outdated thing in everything, especially in the world of modern PCP that has yet to reach its full potential...

 

[Centercut]

Looking at my app you only get .1 mil wind advantage at 100Y in a 10 mph full value with the 60gr vs the 49.5gr but at 200Y you get a .2 mil advantage with the 60gr. That is both at 100 fpe.

The question then becomes which provides the most precision and lowest ES in the gun. Self spotting might be easier with the 60gr??

For XFT I want a .5 BC slug going 500 fps so I can see it flying in the air going towards the target and make out where it went. JK

Fun stuff!

My point was yes, you can bump up the 60 grain, but most guns won't go over 850 fps (which is fine). It won't fit in the magazine of the V3 you want, so it's a moot point for NRL-22, I guess you could use it single shot for EFT.
Bottom line, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze...

 

[Scotay42]

Anybody shot these with an AEA, challenger, element or pro?

 

[Healthservices]

Awe man now I'm starting to regret buying so many 60 gr.


Allen

 

[Centercut]

I’ll try some.

 

[Healthservices]

 

[steve123]

My point was yes, you can bump up the 60 grain, but most guns won't go over 850 fps (which is fine). It won't fit in the magazine of the V3 you want, so it's a moot point for NRL-22, I guess you could use it single shot for EFT.
Bottom line, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze...

Oh I totally get your point Mike and am not trying to be disagreeable.

I'm not sure which way to go yet for XFT as a single shot in the V3 using 60gr, or as a repeater with 49.5gr. It'd be an experiment and I prefer using the gun as a repeater as a more convenient way to go so that favors the 49.5gr. Inside 100Y there is only a slight advantage using the 60gr in wind and it depends on how precise the gun shoots each slug.

"If" I tried NRL22 again I'd probably go for the Panthera and dabble with both slugs before I decided if I liked the squeeze. For those NRL22X matches a .2 mil advantage on the longer steel could pan out more hits. But inside 100Y it wouldn't make much difference. Again precision is paramount.
One example for me was in both 2011 and 2012 I used a nifty wildcat cartridge in these long range championships that helped me take both years 1st place awards and a major reason was the cartridge gave me a .1 to .4 mil wind advantage over quite a few of the other cartridges that were used back then. Higher BC, higher fps, very precise round, did help me.

I believe you with the Panthera in its current factory form.
But looking ahead I'm imagining the Panthera will be improved upon much like the Impact was. Maybe a year from now we'll see it with more oomph to shoot that 60gr without maxing the gun out, a 300 BAR bottle, and a reasonably tame tune, while getting the 12 shots needed on some stages????

 

[Centercut]

Oh I totally get your point Mike and am not trying to be disagreeable.

I'm not sure which way to go yet for XFT as a single shot in the V3 using 60gr, or as a repeater with 49.5gr. It'd be an experiment and I prefer using the gun as a repeater as a more convenient way to go so that favors the 49.5gr. Inside 100Y there is only a slight advantage using the 60gr in wind and it depends on how precise the gun shoots each slug.

"If" I tried NRL22 again I'd probably go for the Panthera and dabble with both slugs before I decided if I liked the squeeze. For those NRL22X matches a .2 mil advantage on the longer steel could pan out more hits. But inside 100Y it wouldn't make much difference. Again precision is paramount.
One example for me was in both 2011 and 2012 I used a nifty wildcat cartridge in these long range championships that helped me take both years 1st place awards and a major reason was the cartridge gave me a .1 to .4 mil wind advantage over quite a few of the other cartridges that were used back then. Higher BC, higher fps, very precise round, did help me.

I believe you with the Panthera in its current factory form.
But looking ahead I'm imagining the Panthera will be improved upon much like the Impact was. Maybe a year from now we'll see it with more oomph to shoot that 60gr without maxing the gun out, a 300 BAR bottle, and a reasonably tame tune, while getting the 12 shots needed on some stages????

No worries, Steve, I always appreciate your experience and input. I'd like to see you shoot XFT with Slugs, either the .22 Thomas HP-X with the replacement barrel you had made, or with the new .25 V3 you are considering.

I'm just looking at the percentage improvement (49.5 grain .25 Altaros at 885 fps) from either the 34 grain .22 slugs that most NRL-22 shooters are using, or even .22 RF.
It's a 62% better resistance to wind drift compared to the 34 grain .22 cal. slug at 1030 fps, and even a 40% improvement over the typical .22 RF.

You're correct, maybe shooting the 60 grain at 800 fps, you could just watch the slug drift into the target and easily see your misses?

 

[Altaros]

I would like to add some knowledge. comparing ATP 50gr slugs and ATP 60gr Qeen slugs according to the G1 ballistic coefficient is not quite the best.
We primarily present the BC G1 function because most airgun shooters didn't even know what the ballistic coefficient was until a few years ago, so we don't want them to have information about the G7 function as they would have even more confusion. But the truth is that our slugs, thanks to the boat tail (BT) end, correspond much better to the function of the G7 for the ballistic coefficient.
This is much better to see at distace 300 meters and more, where the G1 gives very unrealistic results compared to the G7 function. On the contrary, the G7 usually is +- corect even at +1000m and more.
In real shooting, when it is a bit windy, for example even at 250m, I can tell very well whether I am shooting with .22 ATP King 40gr or .25 ATP 50gr or ATP King 67gr or ATP Queen 60gr.
The second advantage of heavier bullets is greater accuracy, as they are better guided in the barrel. The length of the slug in the barrel for 60 or 67 gr is guided at the beginning at the BT and then along the groove at the end at the beginning of the slug head.

The difference is not small, ATP Smooth 50gr is guided in a groove of approximately 2.7mm, while ATP Queen 60gr is guided in a groove of 4.3mm, which is almost 40% longer guidance and the bullet is thus better stabilized.

Personally, I primarily shot .25 ATP King 67gr, but am now switching to ATP Queen 60gr as I get a little extra velocity and don't lose much BC
Wind is always the alpha and omega of my shooting. Moreover, at medium distances (300-600m), the effect of higher BC is cumulative, as the bullet does not lose that much speed, so the difference in wind deviation is then even greater than the pure % BC difference between slugs.
This does not mean that ATP Smooth 50gr are bad. The truth is that they are certainly the most versatile for many more rifles than the heavier .25 Queen or King. But if I have the opportunity to get enough power, then these 60gr have their place on the market and especially for barrels other than FX, which may not be ideally suited to the short lead of the slug in the barrel.

For .22 caliber it's simple, here I choose ATP King 40gr.

 

[steve123]

It hadn't even occurred to try the G7 BC. It makes sense about the length of the bearing surface too.

Thanks

 

[Centercut]

I would like to add some knowledge. comparing ATP 50gr slugs and ATP 60gr Qeen slugs according to the G1 ballistic coefficient is not quite the best.
We primarily present the BC G1 function because most airgun shooters didn't even know what the ballistic coefficient was until a few years ago, so we don't want them to have information about the G7 function as they would have even more confusion. But the truth is that our slugs, thanks to the boat tail (BT) end, correspond much better to the function of the G7 for the ballistic coefficient.
This is much better to see at distace 300 meters and more, where the G1 gives very unrealistic results compared to the G7 function. On the contrary, the G7 usually is +- corect even at +1000m and more.
In real shooting, when it is a bit windy, for example even at 250m, I can tell very well whether I am shooting with .22 ATP King 40gr or .25 ATP 50gr or ATP King 67gr or ATP Queen 60gr.
The second advantage of heavier bullets is greater accuracy, as they are better guided in the barrel. The length of the slug in the barrel for 60 or 67 gr is guided at the beginning at the BT and then along the groove at the end at the beginning of the slug head.

The difference is not small, ATP Smooth 50gr is guided in a groove of approximately 2.7mm, while ATP Queen 60gr is guided in a groove of 4.3mm, which is almost 40% longer guidance and the bullet is thus better stabilized.
View attachment 336411

Personally, I primarily shot .25 ATP King 67gr, but am now switching to ATP Queen 60gr as I get a little extra velocity and don't lose much BC
Wind is always the alpha and omega of my shooting. Moreover, at medium distances (300-600m), the effect of higher BC is cumulative, as the bullet does not lose that much speed, so the difference in wind deviation is then even greater than the pure % BC difference between slugs.
This does not mean that ATP Smooth 50gr are bad. The truth is that they are certainly the most versatile for many more rifles than the heavier .25 Queen or King. But if I have the opportunity to get enough power, then these 60gr have their place on the market and especially for barrels other than FX, which may not be ideally suited to the short lead of the slug in the barrel.

For .22 caliber it's simple, here I choose ATP King 40gr.

Thanks. So for 49.5 and 60 grain BT slugs, what are your G7 BC values?