New shipping delays in/out of Chinese port(s)

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Twinkees_n_Pb

Twinkees_n_Pb

Member
Feb 16, 2021
438
6
Kalifornia, United States
I believe the other way around...don"t piss off those guys because they can stop sending
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Well, its not that simple. If they stop sending to us then they really have no where else to send it to. Then they have to stop making. Then they have a problem with their workers. Then the Communist Party has a problem and they (the CCP) REALLY don’t want that.

In any trade relationship like the one we have with China the power works both ways.

Chris
 
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I believe the other way around...don"t piss off those guys because they can stop sending
Click to expand...

Well, its not that simple. If they stop sending to us then they really have no where else to send it to. Then they have to stop making. Then they have a problem with their workers. Then the Communist Party has a problem and they (the CCP) REALLY don’t want that.

In any trade relationship like the one we have with China the power works both ways.

Chris
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Valid point. Carrot on a stick is their best course of action... and they play it well.
 
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two points to the above - First - they send just as much product to Europe who are just as eager to save a few $ here and there - Second - without the ability or desire to produce locally (i.e the US) and make less profit (corporate policy) then you have no choice but the buy from the Chinese. Moving production and the lack of investment in domestic infrastructure / factories for decades is costing dearly.

I have a customer sourcing raw materials from China at increased expense because the 4 domestic producers were knocked out and are still at reduced capacity because of the electric/power debacle in Texas during the deep freeze this past winter. So they are enduring supply chain interruption, increased transportation cost and duties/tariffs that add more than 30% to the material cost. Money not spent in the US but in China. 


 
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two points to the above - First - they send just as much product to Europe who are just as eager to save a few $ here and there - Second - without the ability or desire to produce locally (i.e the US) and make less profit (corporate policy) then you have no choice but the buy from the Chinese. Moving production and the lack of investment in domestic infrastructure / factories for decades is costing dearly.

I have a customer sourcing raw materials from China at increased expense because the 4 domestic producers were knocked out and are still at reduced capacity because of the electric/power debacle in Texas during the deep freeze this past winter. So they are enduring supply chain interruption, increased transportation cost and duties/tariffs that add more than 30% to the material cost. Money not spent in the US but in China. 

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That sums up our situation pretty well. Until folks here are willing to buy products made in North America, this will continue to be a large challenge.
 
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That sums up our situation pretty well. Until folks here are willing to buy products made in North America, this will continue to be a large challenge.
Click to expand...


This is not that simple how it looks and if you raise up to a bird view it is scary how much North America lost a control in domestic production....

not today...2-3 decades ago.

To put things back in perspective and gain control again you need a revolution and probably a next 2-3 generation of kids to educate towards that goal...so we talking couple decades.

You need to educate new generations to learn a trade and start fabricate things again - inhouse.

Now, a next question will be, just looking into my kids...would they (or their kids) want to go back to a production line if they can make a living with this new trend - digital world?
 
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In any trade relationship like the one we have with China the power works both ways.
Click to expand...



You and me can talk and be friends because we have mutual interests. But you pisses me off badly and next time and next time again and you want to put me in a jar with a sticker on it "sanctions dis and dat"...I may get emotional and we not shaking hands anymore. They can do that...That is just a one man decision = communist party. There is no BS democracy and big corporate business "dis and dat" BS lawyers to make big cases in court...a "one man" pushes a button and that action flushes all the history down on toilet.

Yes I know this is not simple. But I was there couple times and I was in US couple times. I have seen things how this was growing in what directions.

And they've got huge resources now and siting on big pile of cash....not digital cash (deficit and printing money as much you like) but real paper cash... cash. They can tomorrow morning just say f*this and that and stop sending...
 
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That sums up our situation pretty well. Until folks here are willing to buy products made in North America, this will continue to be a large challenge.
Click to expand...


This is not that simple how it looks and if you raise up to a bird view it is scary how much North America lost a control in domestic production....

not today...2-3 decades ago.

To put things back in perspective and gain control again you need a revolution and probably a next 2-3 generation of kids to educate towards that goal...so we talking couple decades.

You need to educate new generations to learn a trade and start fabricate things again - inhouse.

Now, a next question will be, just looking into my kids...would they (or their kids) want to go back to a production line if they can make a living with this new trend - digital world?
Click to expand...

Thats a bullseye!.. pcp or springer :)

Agree with you 1000%
 
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This is not that simple how it looks and if you raise up to a bird view it is scary how much North America lost a control in domestic production....

not today...2-3 decades ago.

To put things back in perspective and gain control again you need a revolution and probably a next 2-3 generation of kids to educate towards that goal...so we talking couple decades.

You need to educate new generations to learn a trade and start fabricate things again - inhouse.

Now, a next question will be, just looking into my kids...would they (or their kids) want to go back to a production line if they can make a living with this new trend - digital world?
Click to expand...

Agreed and agreed. I really became aware of offshoring happening in the 90's, but I'm sure it started earlier than that. Corporations, their boards, and shareholders realized they could significantly increase their profits by moving manufacturing overseas to the detriment of average Joe. Average Joe all of a sudden makes less money, and also has less to spend and contribute to the economy. We let this happen by purchasing those products. Fast forward to last year-no N95s or hospital gowns available because no one here produced them? So a couple companies spool up and begin production, but those responsible for purchasing at the hospitals chose the slightly cheaper Chinese versions and our manufacturers were/are sitting on a bunch of unsold inventory. We need to be willing to support our manufacturers by buying their products.
 
Upvote 0
In any trade relationship like the one we have with China the power works both ways.
Click to expand...



You and me can talk and be friends because we have mutual interests. But you pisses me off badly and next time and next time again and you want to put me in a jar with a sticker on it "sanctions dis and dat"...I may get emotional and we not shaking hands anymore. They can do that...That is just a one man decision = communist party. There is no BS democracy and big corporate business "dis and dat" BS lawyers to make big cases in court...a "one man" pushes a button and that action flushes all the history down on toilet.

Yes I know this is not simple. But I was there couple times and I was in US couple times. I have seen things how this was growing in what directions.

And they've got huge resources now and siting on big pile of cash....not digital cash (deficit and printing money as much you like) but real paper cash... cash. They can tomorrow morning just say f*this and that and stop sending...
Click to expand...

Well, as a US/Canadian dual citizen who has been to China many times on business I can agree that they are very different, and that their decision making is often quite a different process than ours, but I still maintain that it isn’t that simple. They do need us and our markets if they are to sustain their growth and economic development. We need them because we have allowed cheap prices and a quest for profits to dominate our thinking, thus allowing many of our local manufacturing companies to go the way of the Dodo. The real problem is that we have allowed them to become a single source for so many of the things we need. Hopefully that will begin to change following the Covid-19 pandemic and its associated supply chain disruptions. Certainly there seems to be some recognition at least higher up in some of our bigger corporations that there is too high a price to be paid for single source dependence and the lack of resilience in our supply. Some of this may bring some manufacturing to the US, but I expect mostly it will be simply diversifying where (which countries) and who we buy from.

So, while the Chinese govt. may occasionally flex its muscles and stop shipping certain items, they are going to do so very carefully and selectively. They don’t want to see a complete breakdown in trading relationships because they are dependent on manufacturing for employment, economic growth and social peace. Actions which anger us, or worse from their standpoint, push us to become more self reliant or to look to others for supply, are not in their long term self interest. And, by the way, one-off f the real advantages they have shown in the last 10-20 years is that they take the long term more seriously than we (at least here in the US) do.


 
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This is not that simple how it looks and if you raise up to a bird view it is scary how much North America lost a control in domestic production....

not today...2-3 decades ago.

To put things back in perspective and gain control again you need a revolution and probably a next 2-3 generation of kids to educate towards that goal...so we talking couple decades.

You need to educate new generations to learn a trade and start fabricate things again - inhouse.

Now, a next question will be, just looking into my kids...would they (or their kids) want to go back to a production line if they can make a living with this new trend - digital world?
Click to expand...

Agreed and agreed. I really became aware of offshoring happening in the 90's, but I'm sure it started earlier than that. Corporations, their boards, and shareholders realized they could significantly increase their profits by moving manufacturing overseas to the detriment of average Joe. Average Joe all of a sudden makes less money, and also has less to spend and contribute to the economy. We let this happen by purchasing those products. Fast forward to last year-no N95s or hospital gowns available because no one here produced them? So a couple companies spool up and begin production, but those responsible for purchasing at the hospitals chose the slightly cheaper Chinese versions and our manufacturers were/are sitting on a bunch of unsold inventory. We need to be willing to support our manufacturers by buying their products.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the whole offshoring issue. I don’t have a problem with the concept of buying stuff from places where it can be made cheaper, but then we need to also invest in moving further up the food chain in order to make our country more efficient, and this we did not do. We just chased the short term profits, putting nothing in to help those who were displaced by the shift in jobs and job requirements. We don’t support apprentice programs, as is done in Germany, don’t have any effective retraining programs for people who lose their jobs, etc.

It does not help that almost every US public company compensates their executives heavily (and excessively) based on short term measures and remains too focused on quarterly earnings, ignoring issues like long term prospects, resilience, investment plans etc.
 
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Let say about 10-15 years ago the Chinese manufacturing was heavily dependent of foreign buyers=export. But in mean time they worked hard to increase the population buying power and last time I was there for couple months two years ago it was already clearly visible that their internal market can survive by circulating/rolling the money in house.

I work for OEE in transportation industry, I remember again about four years ago a new policy started driving the purchasing/marketing/sales departments to "buy amerikan parts as much possible" and yet more noticing a broken supply chain. Today we need to push aside the half finished vehicles because 30% electronics in example missing, and if this thing keeps going this way for couple more weeks next step is...stop the line and send 2-3K workers home, because no parts and no sales and no cash and here starts a next chain reaction again...I don't know the other industries but the automotive suffers as well, for sure.




 
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