New Royale 500 Accuracy Issues

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Crusher

Crusher

Member
Mar 6, 2018
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Irving Texas, United States
I'm having a very strange problem with my new Royale. I've gotten about 200 shots on it now and I should be leaded in and ready to go. However I am getting a very strange POI shift. At 30 yards it will make one hole, easy. But I get maybe 10 shots and suddenly it hits .5" high and left. If I hold the same POA, the next pellet goes through the same shifted hole. Maybe 3-4 shots like that, then back to original POI. I just don't get it. That is not a "flier'. That is several pellets that hit the exact same spot on a shift, then back to the first POI. This is happening all the way through the shot string. So I don't think it is a pressure thing. I could be wrong. Maybe something is moving in the baffling.

I checked to see if anything is loose. I can't find any reason why this is happening. I tried to check the baffles, but I need some kind of tool to removed the threaded part at the end of the barrel to get them out. I'm wondering if they are getting nicked on the way out somehow.

I was shooting JSB 25 gr at 930+ and figured that might be too fast anyway. So I tried some H&N Barracudas at 31.02 gr. Slowed down to about 860-870 but exact same POI shift. But the Barracuda shifts low and right, the opposite of the JSB's.


Any ideas of where to look??? Otherwise, she is going to miss the out of town "Shoot&Tune" with my buddies in Tulsa this weekend because I'll be shipping her back to AoA on Tuesday.

Crusher

{edit} Took out the shot string I originally included. Wouldn't format properly.
 
There's a whole lot that can lead to the problem you described. But I'll say that I'm skeptical of the pellets clipping the baffles if POI returns after the number of shots you indicated. It may be due to inconsistent technique. You even stated that the deviation isn't tied to fliers. I don't know where you are at on your shooting level, but make sure that you are consistent with your technique. So, start there, as I've found that most of the time working on ensuring consistency in shooting technique solves a plethora of shooting issues. 

Here's a tip: Keep in mind that the human body has a comfortable position it likes to settle in when it is fully relaxed; in shooting this is called natural point of aim, in case you've never heard of it. It could be that when the problem you stated manifests itself you've diverged from the initial accurate-shooting position you were in, perhaps when you're body was in this state. Thus, when you got too excited (because your new FX500 Royale just can't seem to miss) you drifted away from it.
 
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how are u setting up bipod ? bags ? rear bag? ? do you have a level on it , ? when you shoot if your using bags... maybe your resting it bag to bottle then barell to barell causing a slight shift ? just throwing it out there what about pressue are u noticing the bar amount when it shifts it sux to have to send it back i got a brand new wildcat ..sending it back its a leaker 191 to 174 to 161 bar everyday 10 to 15 bar good luck pat
 
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Guess the 1st thing I would do is make sure your scope rings are tight and true so the scope is in line with muzzle then I would try a different scope, if using a Bipod I'd take it off and try a shooting bag making sure the stock is resting on it and not the bottle then I would make sure your grip\ hold isn't changing and if all of the above are good then I would look at the pellets, I just received mine and zero'd at 22 yards then 50 yards and I have no issues, I can constantly hit 109 yards with 3.5 line hold over, I'm using JSB Exact Kings 25,39 and it likes them, I'm also shooting about 897 - 905 on level 2 witch is the highest also I only have 231 pellets through it plus the 33 Austin shot at Utah airguns so I have not re shot it through the Chrono yet so I'm not sure what psi I'm at now.
But then it could be barrel issues or shroud problems might even be your breach oring....Let us know what you find out...
 
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Thanks for all the replies. I'm hoping it is something simple like the breech o-ring. 

I do appreciate all the input about shooting techniques and such. I've been shooting a lot of years. I tried to correct the mentioned problem by switching from my tri-pod rest (which normally works perfectly for me) to my lead sled. Always making sure the front support is resting on the stock forearm and not the bottle. The reticle is dead on the bulls-eye every single shot. I don't usually use the sled because it is only for testing the performance of certain pellets. It is able to hold the exact same aim every shot. So that takes the fun out of it for me :)
I don't know how to tell you what my skill level is but with my Marauder @ 30 yards (that's all my back yard allows), I don't even use targets anymore. I put of a 2" board, shoot a hole in it, then shoot at that hole. And I can stack pellets in the same hole. :) So I'm positive it isn't something I'm doing as far as technique. I might not be doing it like "everyone else", but what I do works well for me. And I know a lot can be lost in text, so please don't think I'm being arrogant or anything. i really believe something weird is happening with this gun. I really want to get to my personal range where I can test at 50 ,100 and 150. But with it shooting so erratically, I don't want to take a chance.

As for the scope question mentioned, It is a new Hawke Sidewinder, purchased and installed and tested at AoA.

I'm stumped. If the gun was older I would take it apart, clean the barrel and check the crown, baffles and breech o-ring. But since it is just NEW (I've had it 6 days), I suppose I'll call AoA tuesday and see if they have an answer. Otherwise send it back and see if they can solve the problem.

If anyone has any other clues, I'm all ears.

Crusher
 
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My 500 is the CFB and only 2 power settings, regulated. Actually that was the first thing I thought of as well. But on the cfb there is a lot of room between the two and I don't see it touching. there is enough room to slide a quarter between them.

Here are a couple of pictures to show what I'm talking about. The black dot is POA. Shot 1 and 2 are touching. With the gun still locked down in the lead sled and dead on exact POA, shot 3 and 4 hit low. Then no movement of POA, shot 5 touches hole with 1 and 2. Sometimes those low shots will go through the exact same hole.


And here is what my little Marauder 177 can do even though I fired all 8 rounds in fairly rapid fire. This is 8 shots under the exact same conditions as above. That is .196 ctc. Look closely. That is a drawn on black dot made with a sharpie marker for the POA.

1-177POA.jpg


I know I will get this figured out when I talk to AoA tomorrow. It just baffles me. :) I should have used my Marauder 25 for the demo shots but I didn't have the scope on at the moment. It will shoot that same small group @30 yards as the 177. 

Crusher
edit: sorry. Just noticed the "crust" on my fingernail. LOL, I'm a baker and just got home. Still have a little dough on my hands. :)
 
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I only have the one mag that came with the gun. A full 11 will look the same. Mostly in a .5 hole with maybe 3 low in the same hole or at least touching like the ones above.
And it depends on if I use the 25 gr or the Barracuda 31. With the JSB the shift will be up and left. With the 'cuda's the shift is low and right. Weird huh?

And just to eliminate anything about the mag I did the same test hand loading every round. Same issue.

Something I did notice that seems odd. On the shot string of 88, every 11th shot is a few FPS lower than the other 10. I don't know if it falls as the first shot of the mag, or the last. But you can look at the entire shot string and see it plain as day. 

Crusher

Snip.jpg

 
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That graph looks -at least for me- like a hst maxed out or near to be. Too much hst will mess up your ES and decrease you average velocity, i don't think that will solve your POI shift problem tho but at least you can improove your consistency. Back out your hst adjuster and try again, remember a brand new reg may need quite some shots to settle down too.
And just to eliminate all other options, make sure the screws that secures the barrel to the action are tight
 
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"Menttaliist"That graph looks -at least for me- like a hst maxed out or near to be. Too much hst will mess up your ES and decrease you average velocity, i don't think that will solve your POI shift problem tho but at least you can improove your consistency. Back out your hst adjuster and try again, remember a brand new reg may need quite some shots to settle down too.
And just to eliminate all other options, make sure the screws that secures the barrel to the action are tight
Click to expand...
Menttaliist That made me think of just trying a few things. First I called AoA several times and they must be closed today because no one is answering their phones.
So, I took my favorite scope off my other 25 again and put it on the Royale. A couple of shots to 0 it in and after 5 shots, same issue. Bummer.

So while I was going to remove and replace the scope anyway, I just thought I would put a wrench in every bolt just to recheck and be sure. The two bolts that hold the barrel near the front of the block were tight. However, when I put the wrench in the back hole closest to the breech, it was LOOSE! I can't believe it. I thought I checked that when I got the gun. So I turned it about 5 turns down and it met up with the barrel and then I snugged it. 
This hole here:
FXBarrel.jpg


That made a MAJOR difference. So. Since that was tightened up last, I'm thinking, should I loosen all three, then snug the back one first, then tighten the other two front screws? My old hot rod building days are reminding me that tighten sequence can matter. So does it matter here?

So far I'm getting much tighter groups with an occasional flier. That is more like what I expect.

I'm shooting barracuda 31 gr at about 865. I want to be shooting at about 830 so I'm waiting for my 34 gr MKII's to come before I make any changes to see what fps they shoot. From adjusting my Marauder, I understand about consistency and all. So Thanks for mentioning that Menttaliist. I'll check again after I find the answer to my bolt tightening sequence question. 

thanks everyone for your interest and your help. I appreciate it.

Crusher
 
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I don't think the bolt tightening sequence will do any differences, what i normally do is tight the two in the front first and then the one on the back. The ones on the front can be a little bit more tight than the other one since that one is pushing the brass part on the barrel and you don't want to apply too much force in there.
Let us know if that was your issue, and keep in mind what i told you regarding your HST ;)
Cheers, Manuel
 
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Yes I will check that HST change. I do want to shoot the heavier pellets though and see what fps looks like.

I think that loose screw was the problem. I reinstalled my Hawke Sidewinder and did this. 8 Shots in .275. I think I was a bit generous with the caliper so it might have been a little tighter than .275 .. Hoping to get out to 50 Wednesday and see what it looks like there.

FXFix.jpg


Your suggestion (and a couple others) to check those hex heads AGAIN is what made me think about just taking the scope off and give the front 2 a check. When I received the gun, AoA had installed the scope already and I didn't want to have to re-zero it. I remember that now and that is the reason I skipped checking these 3 screws... Duh....

Now she seems to be laying them right in there.

Crusher


 
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