New Member Introduction with lots of questions

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 OK folks..... over the past couple of days I've gone down more rabbit holes than I care to admit. :) You've given me much to consider/contemplate about airguns and which way to go.

I have a long time hunting buddy I've been talking with, who's now talking about getting into PCP guns, but I still just can't justify all the "baggage" (the requirement of a compressor for me, due to medical issues, and/or tanks, hoses, regulators, etc.) That doesn't mean at some point I won't cave and go the PCP route, but it just seems somewhat overwhelming right now when compared to the spring/piston guns. I did stumble across this...... https://hardairmagazine.com/news/the-readyair-compressor-and-more-new-introductions-from-umarex/ and when it comes available, might be a game changer for me.

So, with that being said, for the time being I think I'm going to stick with spring/piston guns. That's mainly due to the fact that I just got a replacement Gamo Swarm Whisper in (I've had 2 previous ones go down and with Amazon's return policy, I just returned them for replacement versus all the hassles of sending them to Gamo for repairs) , and after doing all the pre shooting checks and cleaning, mounting a scope, it took all of 5 shots to site it in, and after about 200 rounds it's shoots 10 shot groups of 1/2" or less at 15yrds! The other two did good to shoot 3"+ groups no matter what. So, this one is a keeper. The only thing I did different with this gun was that after a good cleaning, I decided to try something I've done for years with my powder guns...... wax the bore with carnauba wax. Ran a bore mop slathered in wax down the barrel, waited a couple on mins, then followed it with several clean patches. Gona try it on the next gun to see if it does the same thing.

But! That doesn't mean my quest has ended! :) I'm taking baby steps, with strong consideration for the Diana 34 next, as most I read/research says it's the most accurate entry level springer...... but, that research has also revealed to me the Diana 56, the Air Arms TX200, and the Walther LGU.

NOTE:  Since writing this post, I did a lot of looking at the Diana 54.....seems the 56 is hard to find. With my limited knowledge, it seems to me that the Diana 54 offers the best of both the springer and PCP worlds due to it's "floating action". But that being said, I suspect it would be murder on scopes?? HOWEVER, cost wise, it's more than either the TX200 or Walther LGU....... HMMMMM....... more and more to ponder. :)

Taking into consideration the goal of the best/most reliable accuracy as the top priority, here's my plan..... try the Diana 34 next, and depending on my satisfaction, the Diana 56 after that...... then likely to the Walther LGU, and finally the TX200. Then, if I don't find "the perfect gun for me", I'll reconsider the PCP route.

Happy to hear your thoughts and input.

As always, many thanks in advance!!
 
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If the weight is okay, I'd go straight to the LGU. Why mess around? Once I got mine, didn't care for the TX200. The trigger is better on the TX... no question, but I like the balance and behavior of the LGU and it's every bit as accurate. I put a Rowan trigger on my LGU and it's a bunch better now, if that matters.

My favorite is still my old FWB124, though. Best hunting springer for bunnies and squirrels, period. I have a peep on mine to keep the balance and weight in check and it's a joy to shoot and carry.

Bob
 
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I have not read the other posts but can guess....PCP is GOD, you heathen you will embrace the lord and master that is PCP....repent sinner....is going to about cover it more or less.



I am sure I am going to get dinged by the passive aggressive system that is this board, but I say what I think and to ______ with it.



PCP is not for everyone, and everyone does not want it. For a CO2 gun worthy of hunting check out Hammerli 850....that is going to be about the best choice I know of.



Now that all said, PCP really is a big game changer it really does tilt the tables that much....it is the crack of the air gun world, once you go there only a real strong person will go back.

You can get into the PCP world pretty inexpensive anymore, have a good gun that will shoot to 50 yards easy sub $300, and a compressor about the same amount....at by 50 yards I am talking Kennedy Half sized groups or better at 50. 

There are cork sniffers in this hobby that will try to tell you that you need to spend thousand plus to get a "gud gunz" but that is just flat not so.

Research here and other places, see what you find others saying....I will say most of the air gun boards tend to drift to a higher priced brand of some flavor...do your reading, and try that hammerli, you might find one of the best co2's out there.
 
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At this point, PCP would be a very last resort for me, and then ONLY if I can't find a "stand alone" air gun that can give me the accuracy I demand. I just don't like the fact of having to be "tied" to a compressor, and/or sinking the extra money into a compressor and/or a "tank", and the necessary components that go along with them. Living in Montana, there's not much chance of me finding a Scuba shop to fill a tank(s), and after speaking to my local welding store that supplies gases, going that route is just too costly for my tastes.

Thanks for the suggestion of the Hammerli 850..... given that it offers an adapter for 12g C02 carts, and that it's usable for small game at short distances......it sounds exactly like what I'd be interested in owning..... problem is that I can't find it in stock anywhere.

I've not checked Gunbroker yet.....or second hand....but not so sure I'd purchase a C02 gun second hand. 

On another note, C02 is not a good fit for me, because of where I live. An example is today..... It's 25F outside, with about 3" of snow falling last night..... and up to 12" more expected this weekend. I actually purchased the Umerax 10/22 C02 gun, and loved the accuracy..... until I stepped outside of my shop (which I use as my indoor/15 yard range)..... and after about 15 mins in around 20F...... I took a couple of shots, and could literally see the pellets flight through the scope..... and totally missed a 12" target at 20 yards! Until that moment, I didn't realize C02 did that!



On another note, I have a Gamo Swarm Whisper shooting ALMOST as tight as I'd like. I replaced the trigger adjustment screw with a longer version so I could actually adjust the trigger. Also, after 500 rounds I gave the barrel a good cleaning.... and then thought about something that I've been doing with my powder guns for years..... and that is after cleaning the bore, use either alcohol or acetone to remove all residue from cleaning..... then slather down a bore mop with wax.....yep, wax, as in Mother's Carnauba Cleaner/Wax. 

Let it sit for a couple of mins, then run a couple of clean/dry patches down the bore.

Afterward the gun, which before hand was doing about 1" groups at 15yard, tightened to less than 1/2" and the same distance! And it's continued to do so for the last 120 shots!

I have a Diana 34 arriving on Monday, and after breaking it in, will try the bore/wax thing to see if the same results occur with that gun..... if so, then I might be onto something, :)

Since my full time occupation is a Bladesmith/Knifemaker, I've learned over the years that wax protects much better than oils, doesn't draw dust and dirt, and last exponentially longer then oils. So for years I've been using it on not only the knives I produce, and advising clients to do same, but I also use it on all my firearms. About the only time I use oil or grease on firearms is where its absolutely necessary.... such as on some of the internals.
 
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what’s your opinion on Trewax?
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I wouldn't use Trewax on a firearm..... it might be ok, but there are a huge amount of chemicals/drying agents in Trewax, and I have seen it turn some finished gun stocks milky/hazy. I use it on some knife handles, but the odor will nearly knock you out (from the chemicals)

Over the years I have tried lots of different waxes for my uses, and have found that sticking with Carnauba waxes, and steering clear of those that contain Silicon. Silicon traps any moisture UNDER the wax, and many folks have applied it to things like knife blade and firearms, only to find rust later.

My personal favorite wax, is also one of the easiest to find.... Mother's Caranuba Cleaner Wax. Walmart carries it at around $10. I use the paste variety. I use it all over the exterior of my firearms and knives, and in the bores of the firearms. 


 
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Thanks again! I think many people here wash and lube their pellets for better accuracy. You might want to try that too. A friend of mine gently agitates a tin of pellets in a zip lock with warm water with a few drops of Dawn. After he thoroughly rinses, he air dries the pellets. Then he lightly coats the pellets with a very light coating of WD-40. My buddy swears by this method.
 
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 Does the 850 come in .22? I've not found it in .22. Also, after looking at it, I just realized it's C02....which is not a good fit for me because of where I live..... this morning it's 7F with about 8" of snow....on the way to 12-18" by tonight. And we know what happens with C02 guns in the cold.

I loved the Umerax 10/22 in C02.... until I took it outside my shop (I use my shop as a 15 yard indoor range) and after a few minutes in 20F temps, could literally watch the pellet's flight path in the scope. I also went after a squirrel, and the pellet bounced off the squirrel. Hmmmm, I ended up returning it, because as I saw it, it would be good for nothing other then punching paper indoors. 😞
 
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Ed, my name is Tom Lewis, and I also am a knifemaker. My web site is lewis-knives.com. I want to thank you for all the information your web site has on knifemaking. From your web site I learned how to make San Mai, and canister Damascus. So Thanks!

Sorry to hear about your health problems. 

I am not an expert when it comes to air rifles, but I just bought a Diana AMo3 stealth in .177. So far I like it a lot. I have a gamo and it shoots good groups when it is sighted in, but when I let it sit for a week or two I need to sight it in all over again. I have checked all the bolts and screws for tightness. 

There are lots of air guns to choose from and you have gotten some good advice on this forum. 
 
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Hi Tom!!

Great to run into you here!! Yeah, this getting old thing really sucks. I'll just keep pushing on, until I just can't. :)

I'm down one rabbit hole after another with this arigun stuff! Yesterday I stumbled across the SIG ASP20..... and now am thinking of one of those...... and the Diana 34 that I purchased hasn't even arrived yet.

I think I mentioned earlier... I went through 3 Gamo Swarm Whisper guns before getting "a good one"...... I sent two of them back.... both had loading issues, and one had a barrel lock issue. The one I have now is pretty darn good. I found a $70 air gun rated scope that actually holds up to the pounding! It took just a few shot to zero, and it's held ever since.

I've been allover this forum, and it's like the knife forums......so much stuff to explore that it's insane.

Take Care Tom! Talk to ya soon!
 
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Hi Ed. I was also on a similar path a few years ago....long time powder burner shooter since childhood and a military background. Three years ago I moved out of the city and have about an acre and a half of wooded property that is great for airguns. Definitely not enough space between neighbors for the loud bangs of power burners. I love accuracy regardless if it’s at 15 yards or 500. Making a 1” steel target spin at 50 yards with an Airgun is just as satisfying to me as clanging a steel gong at 500 with my .270 when I go out to my cousins farm.

I started out with a couple of the $100 Walmart springers and really enjoyed shooting, but the accuracy wasn’t good enough for me so I upped the ante and got a Hatsan 135 springer. Same problems....just not accurate enough. I got a great deal on a Hatsan Bullboss and hand pump. That hooked me into the PCP world, never to go back again. Shortly after, I got a Marauder, then a Prod. Last year I ended up selling all my springers and the Bullboss and put the money towards a Brocock Bantam Sniper. Now I’m not happy unless I’m shooting 1/2” groups at 50 yards.

I get your dilemma not wanting to spend a bunch of money on an “Airgun”. My friends at work all laugh that I’ve spent what I have the past two years on PCP Airguns and support equipment. They have really nice AR’s and 1911’s that look great sitting it their safes. I shoot my Airguns almost every day from the convenience of my own back deck.

The world of PCP Airguns is not cheap for sure. But you can get into with some pretty nice stuff that would be a good foundation for years to come for about a grand.

The Benjamin Marauder is a great entry level/gateway rifle....made in America, great support, available parts, with a quick modification a fantastic 2-stage trigger, accurate with the right pellets and by far the most knowledgeable user info and aftermarket parts of any Airgun in the world. It’s tuneable up to 40 fpe(or more) in .22 if desired. Waiting for the right sale from other vendors or using the AGNATION code at Crosmans site, you can get one for about $400.

Hand pumping works, but not for long. Best investment I made was getting a Shoebox compressor($500)....made in America, bullet proof, great parts availability and support. You can fill directly to the Marauder if you don’t want to spend for a cf tank right away....takes about 3 minutes and you can get between 40-50 shots per fill. I did spend about another $150 in air prep filters/desiccant for the Shoebox. I also ended up getting one of those SCBA tanks and fill adapter from eBay for about $100 that I fill from the Shoebox.

There are many other great guns, compressors and support equipment you could go with. This was just my personal experience. What ever you decide to go with, just make the leap. Just be aware, it is addictive and once you go down the rabbit hole, there’s no coming back.

eric
 
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 Well, the Diana 34 arrived yesterday. Waited all day in anticipation.... the mailman rolled up to the shop, went to the back of his truck and dragged out that HUGE box....as in about 4X the size needed for an air gun. The box had several holes punched in it, and I noted so to him. He wrote it down and I took the box into the shop. Upon opening the shipping box, the gun box itself, had a couple of holes punched in it, and it looked a bit old and threadbare. First thing I noticed was that the gun box was NOT sealed (with the tape circles as is normal)..... kinda got that sinking feeling. Opened the box, first thing I noticed is that the foam was nothing but dust, and the gun had be flopping around. (Why is it that air gun makers cannot understand the pounding their guns take during shipping, and pack them accordingly???) Next.... there's no plastic bag on the gun, nor any tags at all attached to it???? I pulled the gun out and was dusting off the foam dust when I noticed..... there are no sites on the this gun!?!?! What the #$%*? That's when I spotted the sights, inside the ziploc bag with the owner's manual. HMMM Not a huge deal, as I planned on scoping the gun anyway. As I start looking over the gun..... it had a undue number of scuffs and scratches on both the stock and barrel, and.... there are fingerprints all over it. I broke the barrel, and see shiny/wear marks on the breech/barrel!! I've been around firearms/guns most of my life, and wear marks like that only occur over a LONG period of time, with a LOT of use. 😤

OK.... I've seen enough! Straight to the computer, and start the return! GRRRRR!!! This is the third gun that I have purchased from Umarex. The first two were Ruger branded guns (Blackhawk and Targis). One had the breech detent ball fly out within 50 rounds (the Blackhawk), and the other had the barrel lock in the closed position after less than 500 rounds. (the Targis) Now, I get an obviously used gun! I am done with ANYTHING offered/sold by Umarex! This one especially gets my goat, as I was all excited about getting a Diana..... after reading all the good things about them. Guess it wasn't to be.

At the same time I started the return for this gun, I just went ahead and placed an order for the SIG ASP 20. Thank goodness for Amazon's Prime return policy.

Now another roll of the dice, a wait for it to arrive, and see where this one goes.

Now, if the SIG sucks, or has issues when it arrives, I don't know what I'll do. All the other guns I've had an eye on are NOT suppressed, and due to that, I'm sure they would be too loud for my purposes.

On the up side, although it's nothing glamorous, I still have the Gamo Swarm Whisper, and after some mods, foam filling the hollow stock, and building/installing a kydex cheek riser on it, I've got it comfortable, and shooting 10 shot groups within 1/2".
 
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Nothing worse than waiting around and getting something like you did. 

Unfortunately, this is partly how some folks get out of airgunning before they start. They start out with less than ideal guns but have high expectations.

Get your hands on a TX200 or HW97 and you'll see what a quality springer can do. Still a bit of a learning curve to shooting them, but they are worth it.


 
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Unfortunately, this is partly how some folks get out of airgunning before they start. They start out with less than ideal guns but have high expectations.
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I agree! I'm trying NOT to be one of those folks. My reason for climbing the price ladder is to see how things compare from one rung to the next. I would have really liked to setup/shoot the Diana 34, but it wouldn't have rendered honest results in the shape that gun was in.

Now that I have "the bug", I doubt I'll stop at the SIG ASP 20..... but that being said, the next "rung" of the ladder after the SIG, will likely be one of the guns you mentioned. The SIG is $350, so add a couple hundred more, and I'm in the LGU and TX200 territory.

Here's a questions for everyone.... barrel length. In air guns, does a longer barrel have anything to do with the accuracy of the gun?? I ask because I am a big 6.5x55 Swede fan, and have three of them, and the longer barreled versions always seem to be more accurate than the shorter barrels.... Does that same logic carry over into airguns?
 
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Personally for me, I find that a longer barrel gives me better accuracy at a longer distance with an air rifle.

A few years ago I owned a Taipan Veteran, 22 Cal, short barrel and I did not like the group size (over 1”) I got at over 50 yards. I have since switched to the taipan veteran long .25 Cal and it is extremely accurate with the right pellet over 50 yards, like hole and hole accuracy
 
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I just got into airgunning as well. I went back on for the the idea of a springer or PCP and finally settled on PCP. I ended up with a Benjamin Armada in .22. It is a great shooting gun and I am very happy with my purchase. I got one of the package deals on PyramydAir, and then did a lot of looking before I found a good carbon fiber air tank on Amazon to get. I ended up with the 88 cu ft one which was about $550 but they do have the smaller tanks. I have a local place that will refill the tank for $15 and according to the calculator I should get around 50 refills of the gun from that. A little more investment on the front end but I should be happily shooting for years. I won't lie I am into my gun about $1300 now, but I have already gotten hours of enjoyment just going out and shooting sparrows and pigeons at a coworkers farm. And I have a stockyard I am going to hit up next week to see if I can help to knock down some of their pigeon problem. If you have any questions for a fellow noob to the sport shoot me a message.
 
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Thanks d1lazarus for the reply! I'm currently waiting on a Sig ASP 20 to arrive (thanks to FedX's "slow boat to China" shipping speed, I ordered last monday....and it won't be here till next mondy).

I've not totally ruled out PCP, but I simply don't like all the extra baggage that comes with it/is a necessity.... and until/unless I simply can't find a "stand alone" gun that will give the accuracy I demand likely won't go there. That being said, ya just never know. :)

So far I've had my share of bad luck. I've purchased and returned 5 different guns, and kept one (a Gamo Swarm Whisper).

Even with springer or piston guns, there's the "extra baggage" of having to spend as much for a scope as for the gun...... so I suppose in the end the money is just a wash.




 
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Hi Ed. Welcome to the hobby. Maybe I missed it but I did'nt see what pellets you are using. That's a pretty important part of the hobby. 1 type pellet may give a 3" group at 25yds while another,thru the same gun will print 1/2' group or better.Every individual rifle usually has a preferance for a certain weight,head size and brand. The brands JSB,s and H&N seem to be the standard.Having a descent selection would help. .
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+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Pellet grain weights, shape, and manufacturer have become very important to me. Like you have done, I started buying the lower priced guns trying to discover that diamond in the rough. It took about 3,000 shots to really tighten my groups. I liked the Gamo weight and smoothness better than the Crosman; but, I liked the cocking mechanism and cheap scope on the Crosman better. Both rifles perform much better with JSB, RWS, or H&N pellets, specifically 8.3-8.64 grain weights. I'm talking 2.5" to 1/2" or smaller. Between the Gamo and the Crosman, the Gamo trigger allows me better groupings than the Crosman!



I've bought several .177 Weihrauch air rifles (30, 95L, & 97K): they are fantastic!!! And, they shoot just about any pellet accurately. I've made squirrel kills out to 35 yards so far (and that's as far as I can shoot in my yard) so I don't feel the need for a PCP. However, I've used CO2 (Hammerli 850 and Crosman 2240 .177 18" barrel) effectively out to 27 yards, as well--yes, kill shots on squirrels at that range). 

BTW, I will eventually purchase a PCP because they are evidently great guns that allow superior accuracy without nearly as much practice as needed for the springers. Nonetheless, like others have said, the lowly springer does get the job done nicely. Last year I eradicated 120 pests (squirrels eating my newly built porch). I'm at 14 so far this year. Nearly half those kills have been made with the least powerful air rifle--HW30 (same as a R7). It's not power that makes the kill cleanly: it's shot placement!



Arch_E


 
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I suppose most of us have to go through the springer learning curve, lol. Now looking back just think if you had applied all that money you spent on low quality and inaccurate springers into a decent PCP and gear to use it. Man I'm telling you there is a lot of suck in springers! And I had nice ones when I was a boy in the early 70's with higher quality Diana's. I only own one springer anymore.

If you have to get a springer for plinking out to 40Y or so just buy an old FWB 300S! Originally designed for the Olympics, also using a recoilless system, it sends light match grade pellets at 600fps and puts down groups that are one hole at 10 meters. A joy to shoot and built to last. Absolutely worth every penny!

For the rest of your shooting just break down and buy a decent PCP, you'll end up here eventually anyway now that you've got the bug. This time spend the time to research which ones are reliable because even some expensive ones can be a hassle to deal with.


 
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