New Member Introduction with lots of questions

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EdCaffreyMS

EdCaffreyMS

Member
Mar 6, 2020
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Montana, United States
Hello All!

My name is Ed Caffrey. I hail from Montana, USA. I am retired USAF, and have been a part time/full time Bladesmith for over 30 years. My Website/CaffreyKnives.net I also carry a Mastersmith Rating from the American Bladesmith Society. I've been in the outdoors, and shooting since age 8. As well as throughout my military career (23 years).

Just recently, due to being diagnosed with interstitial lung disease and Lupus , I've been forced to curtail my hunting/outdoor activities, and have turned to airguns....that I can shoot inside my shop and/or take squirrels, rabbits, or gophers in the back yard.

I have so many questions.... I know much of "powder guns", but have learned I know little to nothing of airguns..... but will try to give you where I'm at now, in hopes of gaining your insights and advice. 

I've been testing various air rifles, seeking accuracy above everything else. I've decided to stick with either "springers" or "piston" guns, simply because I can't see spending more money on a compressor, then on a gun, for the PCP variety, and have found that C02 guns simply are not powerful enough.... at least that I have found to date. (If I understand correctly, the PCP guns are inherently the most accurate of air rifles?)

So far I have tried/tested the following..... Gamo Swarm Maxxim, Gamo Swarm Whisper, Ruger Blackhawk, Ruger 10/22 (C02 gun, not enough power for hunting), and have a Ruger Targis on the way.

I know these are all relatively "cheap" guns, but I find myself slowly climbing the price ladder.....hoping to find the most accurate Springier/Piston type rifle. I think I've learned how to actually shoot these type of guns, but out of all those I listed, after "break in" of 500+ rounds, the best accuracy I can achieve is with the Gamo Swarm Whisper..... 5 shot groups (shot indoors) at 15yrds of about 2", often times with one or two "flyers" out to 3+". To me, that is unacceptable, which is why I am climbing that price ladder, hoping that as I get into guns like the Diana 34, and above, accuracy will get better. (Does that make any sense?) Looking for input/opinions/advice.

Actually, I have my eye on either a Walther LGU .22, or a Air Arms TX200 MkIII, as my logic says that the under or side lever springers should be more accurate because the barrel doesn't break??? That being said, my plan is to make my way there going through rifles such as the Ruger Targis, the Diana RWS Model 34, and possibly the Diana 460 Magnum.... in hopes that a gun at a lower price point will satisfy my accuracy cravings. Happy to hear input on this too. 

The other MAJOR issue I have right now, is wrecking scopes and mounts. The Gamo Whisper has wrecked 5 different scope/ring mounts/combos. Even after cleaning, and using perm (red) loctite, the "set pin" in the mount/top of receiver is sheared off and the scope mount(s) "walk" off the back of the dovetails. I've also had several scope rings screws break/shear. I've even used a 1/4" impact to tighten screws, and have sheared several screws/heads that way.....and things still "walk" on the dovetails. The latest wrecks were a Leepers Accushot 1 pc mount, and an RWS "Lockdown" mount. I've also destroyed 4 different scopes, ranging from a cheap Hammer 3-9, all the way through an old Sightron 3-9 (airgun rated) that I pulled off my 6.5x55 Swede..... so where and what in the way of mounts and scopes will hold up to these rifles? DESPERATE FOR INPUT/ADVICE ON THIS ASPECT! :)

In advance..... my appreciation for constructive input/advice!!

Many thanks!
 
RWS34 for a lower dollar springer and the idea of a TX is a solid choice. Either will take squirrel/rabbit sized critter at 50 yards and you will love the trigger on either. You will find both easier on scopes as well. I personally am not their biggest fan but Hawke scopes has about the best warranty around w/replacement in days.



Keep us posted,



John
 
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RWS34 for a lower dollar springer and the idea of a TX is a solid choice. Either will take squirrel/rabbit sized critter at 50 yards and you will love the trigger on either. You will find both easier on scopes as well. I personally am not their biggest fan but Hawke scopes has about the best warranty around w/replacement in days.



Keep us posted,



John
Click to expand...

+1 

Are you sure you don’t want to get into PCPs though? If you can hand pump, for the price of an Air Arms TX200 MkIII you could get a pretty good

PCP and scope without worrying about the scope being eaten by a springer. If you can’t pump, you could get a young heng compressor for $200 or one of these Hatsan-spark look-a-likes for $200 as well:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000198791807.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=9317063908&albag=94962804715&trgt=296730740870&crea=en4000198791807&netw=u&device=t&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhojzBRC3ARIsAGtNtHU6v2uDM2re9xV_kmC6pAQn345ySB8MXhkzIZMNeCQUcCX_RwJxfXEaAn9eEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

This paired with a sub-$400 PCP would work great and you’d have a magazine fed gun. I’d personally get a Nova Liberty - it’s $300 but you can snatch them from ATI for $240 when a Black Friday or Christmas deal comes by. I have seen people get five shot sub MOA groups with it at 100 yards and safely sub 1/2” at 50. If you decide to go with it, get the .22 caliber because it will work better for hunting and try the H&N Baracuda 5.53 pellets with it since they seem to be the pellet for the gun.

AK

PS: Love those knives :)


 
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John: Thanks for that input! I've had several folks tell me that I should be "starting" at the 34 if I want accuracy.... but being stubborn, I started even below that level! :)



AK: My appreciation!! That link won't work for me.....is there a PCP gun in there? Or is the link to a compressor? On a good day, I MIGHT be able to use a manual pump, but this lung disease keeps me winded most of the time.... if I were to go PCP, I would definitely need a compressor. The one PCP that caught my attention was the Umerax Gauntlet..... but when I realized the gun plus compressor (the ones I reviewed via Pyramid's site) would put my total at over $1k...... I back peddled. :)



The Ruger Targis arrived just a couple of hours ago...unboxed, tightened everything, cleaned the barrel, and mounted the scope. Now to see how fast I can run 200-300 rounds through in hope of breaking it in. I've gone through 40 so far, and off the bench with artillery hold, it's doing 4+" groups at 15 yards. It'll have to tighten up A LOT, for me to keep it. :)

I might just go to the 34 next, and save myself some frustration/heartache. :)
 
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Welcome, and thanks for your service. I'm primarily a .177 shooter for my airguns. I have MSP, SSP, springers, gas rams, and PCP's. As to the guns you specifically mention, I have an LGU in .177 caliber that is extremely accurate and well made. The Walther LGV break barrel is similarly accurate due to it's excellent lockup mechanism but I agree with your thoughts on the barrel stability in general. I also have a Diana 460 in the same .177 caliber that is also very accurate and powerful. I don't think you would be unhappy with either of the Walther rifles or the Diana as they are very good rifles. Air Arms rifles are obviously very highly regarded as is the Weihrauch HW97 in that class (I have an HW97 but no Air Arms rifles). As to PCP's you might get good service out of a Yong Heng air compressor for around $250 but they are hit and miss as to long term reliability-mine has been reliable for over a year. Additional filtration between the compressor and the rifle would be a good idea on these small compressors but isn't especially expensive-maybe another $100 to $200. Good luck with your entry into this shooting genre, you will receive lots of opinion and information on this forum.
 
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Thanks Bandg! I'm taking a break from running rounds through the Ruger Targis..... after 150 rounds, not seeing much group improvement from what I mentioned previously. Thanks for that information.... it's always good to hear the thoughts from someone who's "been there, done that". How do you perceive the loudness/sound level of the LGU? The 460? Being new to this, I find myself using the info on Pyramyd Air's gun descriptions when trying to determine sound level of various guns. At least until I learn more.

You folks may just wear me down to a PCP gun. :) I'm choosing to go with .22 guns.... just ..... just...... because. 😉

I will say that the included scope with the Ruger Targis is the best I have seen of any to date. It looks suspiciously like a Hammer brand scope. The idea of an integrated rail on the Targis is a good idea....but is was poorly executed.... it's made of plastic, and as you tighten the scope bases, you can feel it "give". I'm afraid to tighten like I want to.... as it might break the plastic rail(s).



Here's a link to the best groups so far...... WHEW.....it's ugly. :) Ruger Targis groups after 150 rounds 😟



Keep the good advice coming! It's very much appreciated!
 
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John: Thanks for that input! I've had several folks tell me that I should be "starting" at the 34 if I want accuracy.... but being stubborn, I started even below that level! :)



AK: My appreciation!! That link won't work for me.....is there a PCP gun in there? Or is the link to a compressor? On a good day, I MIGHT be able to use a manual pump, but this lung disease keeps me winded most of the time.... if I were to go PCP, I would definitely need a compressor. The one PCP that caught my attention was the Umerax Gauntlet..... but when I realized the gun plus compressor (the ones I reviewed via Pyramid's site) would put my total at over $1k...... I back peddled. :)



The Ruger Targis arrived just a couple of hours ago...unboxed, tightened everything, cleaned the barrel, and mounted the scope. Now to see how fast I can run 200-300 rounds through in hope of breaking it in. I've gone through 40 so far, and off the bench with artillery hold, it's doing 4+" groups at 15 yards. It'll have to tighten up A LOT, for me to keep it. :)

I might just go to the 34 next, and save myself some frustration/heartache. :)
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t look at the Gauntlet, IMO it’s over advertised. Here is a link to the gun, and that other link was to the compressor not sure why it didn’t work:

Gun: https://www.americantactical.us/tag/liberty.html

Compressor: (if this doesn’t work for you, just search in aliexpress “pcp air compressor” and the big blue box or the big black rectangle with red switches would work probably) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32791695477.html?shortkey=FFNnUre2&addresstype=600 OR https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000198791807.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=9317063908&albag=94962804715&trgt=296730740870&crea=en4000198791807&netw=u&device=t&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhojzBRC3ARIsAGtNtHU6v2uDM2re9xV_kmC6pAQn345ySB8MXhkzIZMNeCQUcCX_RwJxfXEaAn9eEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I’d go for the electric one that is not water cooled because it seems more convenient to me, but I’d have to ask people if they know anything about these compressors. You can find insane deals on AliExpress for good stuff. I paid $33 FREE SHIPPING for a great hand pump that is working without much problems other than the usually maintenance that came with a 1 yr warranty and an additional $13 for an air filter + a female foster fitting + a hose apparently made in Germany. 
AK
 
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Walther, Air arms and RWS airguns are all good choices. I prefer the side lever and under lever guns for the same reason as you they should be more accurate. Although a few of the break barrels are just as good. I have three Diana guns, a model 45 which thrashed six scopes, and the latest a model 54 which is a treat to shoot and extremely accurate. Airgun and scope info in the link.

An easy repair for springer damaged scopes.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/groups-moving-around-maybe-your-scope-is-the-problem/

Then think about a better mount for the scope.

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Bullseye_ZR_1_Pc_Mount_Fits_1_and_30mm_tubes_11mm_Dovetail_0_04_Droop_Compensation_Recoil_Compensation/5495

I have one on my Diana 54 and it shoots lights out.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/shot-some-targets-50-yards-with-the-diana-54/


 
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Thanks for the clarified link AK! I knew nothing of those AT guns. I find my self wondering why their website has so little info. Makes it kinda hard to nail down the differences (beside caliber) in those guns. I also finally got to the AliExpress link...... if I could get my hands on a compressor that was worth a darn for that kind of money, then my mind just might be changed to PCP guns! :)

Update on the Ruger Targis...... ran just over 200 rounds through it today.....still 3+" groups. I also noticed that the horrible trigger seems to be be getting worse, rather than better as I go along. No adjustment for weight, and they list it as a 6.4lb trigger pull......but it's got at least 1/4" of GRITTY travel in the second stage. YUK! I'll try some more rounds tomorrow and see where things go.

Once again, my thanks for all the great info!!




 
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I have not read others advise,Springers are good,I think a lighter ,accurate will known springer is what you need...followed by a larger more powerful accurate one.Think Beeman R7,Weihrauch HW30....then R9 ,HW50....then HW97, AIR ARMS TX200.

The Sig Sauer is sort-of-made for PP guys who want to get into air rifles...it could be a great rifle for you....

That PCP stuff,do not need it....I been shooting springers for 35 years,got into PCP 4 years ago....believe when starting off nothing is better than a Good Well known springer.....PCPs are a expense not needed...until later....then you will go down the black hole.

Make sure you get a one pc scope mount..and a springer rated scope....I new good spring gona be about $300 and up,good scope will be $100 and up...I would get a HW50 or a Beeman R9....

I have all the rifles I mentioned,but the Sig....the HW97K is over 10lbs ..heavy,but really accurate under lever.....
 
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Thanks Bandg! I'm taking a break from running rounds through the Ruger Targis..... after 150 rounds, not seeing much group improvement from what I mentioned previously. Thanks for that information.... it's always good to hear the thoughts from someone who's "been there, done that". How do you perceive the loudness/sound level of the LGU? The 460? Being new to this, I find myself using the info on Pyramyd Air's gun descriptions when trying to determine sound level of various guns. At least until I learn more.

You folks may just wear me down to a PCP gun. :) I'm choosing to go with .22 guns.... just ..... just...... because. 😉

I will say that the included scope with the Ruger Targis is the best I have seen of any to date. It looks suspiciously like a Hammer brand scope. The idea of an integrated rail on the Targis is a good idea....but is was poorly executed.... it's made of plastic, and as you tighten the scope bases, you can feel it "give". I'm afraid to tighten like I want to.... as it might break the plastic rail(s).



Here's a link to the best groups so far...... WHEW.....it's ugly. :) Ruger Targis groups after 150 rounds 😟



Keep the good advice coming! It's very much appreciated!
Click to expand...



Walthers are relatively quiet, Diana is noticeably louder. I like both a lot and recently bought a Diana 430L that I didn't "need" so I guess that says something about my view of Diana quality. My HW97 hasn't outperformed my Walther rifles but it is also a very nice rifle. Lots of good choices. Good luck in getting what you can enjoy.
 
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Thanks for all the awesome input!! Lots of new information for me to consider and digest. Let me ask this.... since my primary concerns are absolute accuracy, with enough power for hunting in a .22 cal...... is the Diana 34 the recommended "low side" gun to look at next??

Yesterday I ran the total rounds through the Ruger Targis to 400+, and am not seeing anything I like, plus the trigger is just horrible, so I'm certain it will be returned this coming week. Thinking of going with the 34 next, and then if that does not satisfy my "accuracy thirst", then will likely jump to one of the higher end gun you folks have mentioned.

After looking through all the great links you folks posted, for some reason this one disturbs me...... https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Bullseye_ZR_1_Pc_Mount_Fits_1_and_30mm_tubes_11mm_Dovetail_0_04_Droop_Compensation_Recoil_Compensation/5495

Even with "tight" machining tolerance, I can't wrap my head around how a scope mount that moves, can be any kind of accurate?? OR.... is it one of those "give-n-take" kinda things.....give up some accuracy to save a scope from being trashed?? That being said, and after learning from this thread, I see that the Diana 34 has a "rail" that is screwed to the receiver (of maybe its integral?)... but my logic says that is a good thing when it comes to hold scope mounts in place. ???

IF I decide to eventually go down the hole of PCP guns (see, ya'll have me thing about it!), it will certainly require a powered compressor for me..... and after looking at those of AliExpress, would really like more input on them and if they do work....how long could a person expect them to do so..... in the usage of just filling a PCP gun?



Now I'm gona go explore some more of the guns you folks have mentioned! THANK YOU!!
 
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I thought the same about the scope mount but bought one anyway. All that really matters with the mount is that it locks up tight and in the same place, when it returns, every time. The proof is there with my 50 yard groups which are very good for a springer.

As far as the PCP compressors go the water cooled Yong Heng units have a fairly good record. My first is still going after a couple of years. My second I got as a back up cuz I did not trust the first died in a few months but parts were cheap and it was an easy fix. The inexpensive smallish air cooled pumps can only be run a for few minutes at a time and are not made for longevity.

Got to love the PCPs as some can shoot the same groups at 100 yards that the high quality springers shoot at 50.

With some mods I have managed 20-30+ FPE out of a co2 gun, others have done more, so they are good for that anyway.

Cheap springers are not known for their accuracy when you get into the $300-$500 range they shoot much better with the right pellets that is. Pellet choice is everything for good accuracy.
 
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You’d think break barrel guns would be less accurate, and perhaps they are, but if the mating surfaces and bearings are well machined, the difference is very small. For many years 10m competition was ruled by the HW55, a break barrel gun. My most powerful spring gun is a Theoben Sirocco that’s currently tuned to around 20 ft-lbs, and it can put pellets through a 3/4” hole in a field target all day long.

You can’t go wrong with a TX200, and there are a lot of used ones around. I bought mine in 1998, and it’s still working as good as new. Weirauch (HW) spring guns are good and have excellent triggers. RWS Diana spring guns are good. Walther are good. Most of the rest are Asian imports from a few factories with different labels, and they’re kind of a crapshoot. Get at Air Arms, HW, or Diana, and you’ll throw the cheap guns away. 
 
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You can’t go wrong with a TX200, and there are a lot of used ones around.
Click to expand...

Interesting.... that is one of the guns in my “maybe” list.... where could I likely find a used one for sale?


I just returned a Gamo Swarm Whisper because the loading mechanism failed.... and have a Ruger Targis that is going back too.



Time to step up to the next level/price tier... which is where the Diana 34 resides. Only hesitation there is, I’ve read a lot of those are showing up with debris in the mechanisms, and dry of lubrication. Seems there is something at each “level” that’s causes me to pause and ponder.
 
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Hi Ed. Welcome to the hobby. Maybe I missed it but I did'nt see what pellets you are using. That's a pretty important part of the hobby. 1 type pellet may give a 3" group at 25yds while another,thru the same gun will print 1/2' group or better.Every individual rifle usually has a preferance for a certain weight,head size and brand. The brands JSB,s and H&N seem to be the standard.Having a descent selection would help. When it comes to scopes.whew! that's a tuff 1. I've experienced the scope creep,scope turning in the rings, scope breakage. There is a scope mount called,( Dampa Mount) by Sports Match. A little pricey,up to you. I went with BKL (200 series) double strap rings. I have another set coming,double strap but extra long so it has more clamping surface to the dove-tail that I need for my Browning Leverage under-lever spring rifle which has given me problems keeping a Hawke (AirMax) 3-9x40 scope on it. I have a Hawke (AirMax) 2-7x32.( AirMax are magnum spring rated) on my magnum spring break-barrel. Don't know how they would hold up to gas spring gun.They r even harder on scopes. I really like the reticle and it has held up very well on my magnum springer break barrel. 18grain pellets at avg 660 FPS. I hope this has helped.don't give up.
 
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