New Huma Regulator Issues

[SilentReign]

Hello friends,

Hopefully able to borrow some insight from you all. I recently installed a Huma Regulator onto my Bullboss .25 cal. Purchased from TrenierOutdoors(directed by Air Superiority), received it in the mail, degassed my cylinder, left it at factory 140 BAR setting, cleaned the cylinder and put silicone grease into the cylinder and outside the regulator itself. I removed the O ring as instructed from the valve body, and put some grease where the valve body would make contact with the reg. I left a small gap as instructed the size of a piece of paper(and later adjusting up to size of a business card). I feel the instructions were easy/clear and the installation was not very difficult, however overnight after slowly filling my cylinder(i realize when the air cools the pressure drops a little), my pressure would drop drastically from 200 BAR to 100 BAR, and then eventually to sub 50. I do not hear any leaks coming from the cylinder and I have readjusted the regulator many times thinking maybe it was the gap/o rings. Everything looks fine but it doesn't want to hold pressure. This makes me very sad, I have sent a message to Bwalton since he is an expert with Hatsans and uses the Huma regulators himself, also to TrenierOutdoors for a possibly defective regulator. Does anyone else here have some insight to this issue?

 

[SilentReign]

I just put it under some water and I see some bubbles coming out rather quickly, however again, I do not see any damages in the valve/cylinder/reg/o rings.

 

[thammer]

Does the huma regulator require a vent hole drilled? I have found that a highly polished inside tube wall will allow air to leak out of the vent hole. You have to rough the surface with a 4-500 grit sandpaper to give the o-ring a place to bite. Sounds odd that you rough the surface but a mirror finish lets air pass. I'm a Robert Lane regulator distributor and installer. I have little experience with the Huma. 

 

[SilentReign]

"thammer"Does the huma regulator require a vent hole drilled? I have found that a highly polished inside tube wall will allow air to leak out of the vent hole. You have to rough the surface with a 4-500 grit sandpaper to give the o-ring a place to bite. Sounds odd that you rough the surface but a mirror finish lets air pass. I'm a Robert Lane regulator distributor and installer. I have little experience with the Huma.

It requires a small gap at the top(not screwing the valve body all the way) or a small notch filed on the cylinder and small file into the valve body, I chose the first method as I have a hard time wanting to file down anything

 

[thammer]

Yeah, not sure. Really hope you get it figured out. Leaks suck. 

 

[SilentReign]

"thammer"Yeah, not sure. Really hope you get it figured out. Leaks suck.

Thanks.. It's even worse since I have no real access to resupplying my air easily without driving 30 minutes..

 

[Pauls Custom Targets]

Under water? Where was the air escaping? i just installed a Huma in a Challenger and it did not direct to remove the valve o ring. Also the Huma does not vent through a required hole in the air tube like the Robert lanes. I installed several Lanes without any failures. I tried the Huma, to avoid drilling the vent hole. The Huma requires you to have the vent holes in the reg to be facing up. Also when you first go to fill the gun you must COCK IT FIRST before filling. This is to remove the pressure on the valve. I did not do this for the first 2 tries as there was no instructions to cock it I reasoned it out myself as the air was escaping rapidly out the muzzle, indicating the valve was leaking the air. Hope this helps....

 

[Pauls Custom Targets]

Note After the first fill with cocking, the valve seated and did not leak anymore.... 

 

[fz1yamaha]

Did you smooth over all the rough edges the o-ring has to slide by during install?the gentleman above -scuffing the o-ring surface up w/600 grit worked for me.I had polished the hammer and slide area in my p-rod to a mirror finish and had polished the area where the valve o-ring sits also,my bad,(( Underwater air was escaping T/P hole)).If you have done this also, .Take a piece of dowel or pvc cut a slit in it slide 600 paper in the slit and try to very gently cross hatchxxxxxxx scuff,only the areas the o-rings sit,just enought to knock the shine off ,the other area on a (p-rod) was the valve face, not being ideal for a seal to the reg.plenum- all else fails.Try putting back together w/o reg and c if it still leaks- you can fix it. be patient and back track if need b. TrenierOutdoors was very helpful - by the way -How are you filling it?

 

[SilentReign]

"strikefast"Note After the first fill with cocking, the valve seated and did not leak anymore....

I slowly filled it outside of the gun. There wasn't any pressure on the valve itself, I leave it to cool down a little and go to refill it to 200 bar. It was leaking out of the where the valve body screws into the cylinder, so the reg probably is the issue. I may have to try that sandpaper method. 

 

[SilentReign]

"fz1yamaha"Did you smooth over all the rough edges the o-ring has to slide by during install?the gentleman above -scuffing the o-ring surface up w/600 grit worked for me.I had polished the hammer and slide area in my p-rod to a mirror finish and had polished the area where the valve o-ring sits also,my bad,(( Underwater air was escaping T/P hole)).If you have done this also, .Take a piece of dowel or pvc cut a slit in it slide 600 paper in the slit and try to very gently cross hatchxxxxxxx scuff,only the areas the o-rings sit,just enought to knock the shine off ,the other area on a (p-rod) was the valve face, not being ideal for a seal to the reg.plenum- all else fails.Try putting back together w/o reg and c if it still leaks- you can fix it. be patient and back track if need b. TrenierOutdoors was very helpful - by the way -How are you filling it?

I'll give that a shot, right now I have a small backpack size cf air tank. Local dive shop closes their store here in the winter months so I have to go to the town over to fill my tank. Hopefully next year I can pick up the new air venturi compressor

 

[Pauls Custom Targets]

OK not familiar with the Hatsan gun. Just looked it up. Removable air cylinder. Got it

Are you filling and leaving it attached to the DIN fill or removing it to dunk in water? I assume after being filled and removed from the first tank. If it is detached and air is escaping it may be the air tube valve not sealing. The regulator would not allow air to escape as it is internal and should not affect the fill valve. That is if you do not have a hole drilled for pressure release like the Lane reg.
I am basing this on my Styer that has a removable air tube. I have had it lock up and not allow the gun to be filled by the probe. I had to open and let a little air escapes to reset the valve in the air tube.

 

[SilentReign]

"strikefast"OK not familiar with the Hatsan gun. Just looked it up. Removable air cylinder. Got it

Are you filling and leaving it attached to the DIN fill or removing it to dunk in water? I assume after being filled and removed from the first tank. If it is detached and air is escaping it may be the air tube valve not sealing. The regulator would not allow air to escape as it is internal and should not affect the fill valve. That is if you do not have a hole drilled for pressure release like the Lane reg.
I am basing this on my Styer that has a removable air tube. I have had it lock up and not allow the gun to be filled by the probe. I had to open and let a little air escapes to reset the valve in the air tube.

I fill it and remove it from the tank, I tested the gauge side and it's sealed, the leak seems to be coming from the Valve side. Here is the installation instructions. http://foto.huma-air.com/foto/installation%20guide%20AT44-BT65-S200-P10-P12-FX.pdf

 

[Pauls Custom Targets]

Have you tried putting the airtube back together in original configuration. Then add a little air to see if it still leaks?

If it still leaks it should be a nicked O ring. If not it is the assembly of the reg setup.

The instructions state leaving the valve a paper thickness out for venting. Is the space you are leaving too much allowing the air to push past the seal?

It also calls for silicone grease on the valve face to avoid twisting the reg o ring. Did you CK to see if that did not happen.

 

[JRfiss]

One thing I notice during installation of my Huma reg is the screw-on piece that holds the valve spring is a bit wide. Which means in order for the reg to get a proper fit it will need to seat almost perfectly. I'm half tempted to file down the outside diameter of "part #2308" that way there is no obstruction and the o-ring sits where its intended on the base of the valve.

I am in the same boat as you, mine leaks exactly how you explain it. Removing the regulator and back tracking it seems like no issues. I'll do some more testing tomorrow when I have time and report back to this thread. 

Just as an FYI, I have the exact same rifle (Hatsan Bullboss .25) all the videos and instructions I've seen have a valve body with a smaller diameter spring screw. 

 

[Centercut]

Silly question, but are you installing the regulator backwards? It would give the symptoms you are experiencing. Just a thought. 

 

[JRfiss]

@centercut Nope, I’ll take a picture later to explain what I’m talking about. It requires a bit of force for the regulator to properly sit onto the valve. I have tried two different ways both BWaltons way by inserting the regulator just a couple of mm into the cylinder and threading the valve down slowly to ensure a proper seal, and the other way per Huma instructions by pushing past the threads and having the regulator seal upon charging. Doing it Bwaltons way I noticed it leaks much less, to the point where I can’t even hear it. But when I place under water consistent bubbles.

 

[Centercut]

OK, just asking, no problem. I have a Daystate Renegade and the HUMA goes in and seats the same way. I usually just push it in a few mm past where it would seat after the tube is screwed into the housing. Make sure that little hole is up when all is said and done. Normally I mark the tube which way is up prior to unscrewing. Then when I insert the regulator I insert so that the small hole is up AFTER I unscrew it a quarter turn after screwing the tube all the way in. As soon as I start to pressurize the tube, the regulator immediately seats, no leaks, even though its not screwed tight. Once it has pressure there is no way it can be loosened or unscrewed. I was daydreaming once and put mine in backwards, which is why I know it gives those symptoms... 
Mike

 

[JRfiss]

Yup, bleed hole is facing up. Here are some pictures of what I'm talking about:

Now with some force I can push it past the ORING. Problem is if its not pushed exactly center it will sit sideways or even worse push the ORING out of place. Either I find a thinner ORING, or I do some sanding and reduce the diameter of the valve SPRING NUT. What it looks like is the regulator isn't getting a proper set onto the valve because of this nut.

 

[Centercut]

Yes, I see. With my DS, the regulator end sits easily on the end of the valve house with nothing to hinder it. Can you try the same diameter but .5mm less thick O-ring? I know Huub at HUMA sometimes provides a few O-rings of differing thicknesses when you order direct from him.