New guy needs some advice! (springer calibre & optics)

[Glenroiland]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Wow. Such great advice! Thank you all for weighing in. I will absolutely take a look at HWs, however before I dive deep into this hobby I want to make sure it's something I really like. As Glenroiland has said, the firearm side of me really likes that the Sig is expected to shoot well out of the box without a ton of modifications. That is appealing to me. Given that I have a good chunk of credit with Sig, I'll be able to pick up the ASP20 for a little over $100. Lots to consider with the range as well. I appreciate the reality check on the range I can expect with a springer. I would be perfectly content to have good groupings at 50-60 yards with the occasional long distance shot "for fun". I will start with the ASP20 and if I really like it I will look into a nicer, more adjustable, rifle. Based on what I'm reading it sounds like .22 may be the way to go for me. I want that extra bit of power to be able to knock down my steel targets, or at least hear the satisfying "PLINK".

What about optics? What types of scopes are you guys running? bubblerboy64 affirmed that Leupold is a good way to go. Unfortunately there are not a lot of options in the Leupold line that have an adjustable objective other than the Freedom 3x9x33mm. Some of the Hawke scopes looked pretty nice. I would go with the Whiskey3 from Sig, however recent poor experience with another Sig optic caused me to shy away from buying Sig optics. Thoughts on scopes?


Thanks!!
Paul

" I'll be able to pick up the ASP20 for a little over $100 "

BUY IT !!

And THIS!!!!

 

[Glenroiland]

Oh. And you should get more tims of pellets. When I get back home I'll try to remember to post the ones ive have the best success with. I just forget right now...I have so many tins and I'm getting older, lol

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

The pellets that the Sig seems to like:

Air Arms domed 16 gr. VETNUTT'S favorite They are easier to load as the Sig has a tight bore.

Sig Crux domed lead 14.66. I find these to be the most accurate and is the pellet the Sig was designed for. Tight fit though.

Sig Wraith domed (more pointed than most domed) 12.35gr but they actually weigh 13.3 gr. Very accurate! Tight fit

Predator GTO domed alloy 11.75 gr. Here there accurate but never tried them. A little light for extended range.

 

[Glenroiland]

The pellets that the Sig seems to like:

Air Arms domed 16 gr. VETNUTT'S favorite They are easier to load as the Sig has a tight bore.

Sig Crux domed lead 14.66. I find these to be the most accurate and is the pellet the Sig was designed for. Tight fit though.

Sig Wraith domed (more pointed than most domed) 12.35gr but they actually weigh 13.3 gr. Very accurate! Tight fit

Predator GTO domed alloy 11.75 gr. Here there accurate but never tried them. A little light for extended range.

Those sig crux domed are a tight fit. For me, they shot well, but they weren't the MOST accurate for me. Wish I was home right now to grab the tins. I shot MANY pellets and was surprised about a few things. First, how many pellets were actually quite accurate in this gun, and second how many were not. Seemed so odd to me that some of the ones that were not (alot of flat headed ones) had such HUGE open groups compared to the ones that were accurate. I was surprised at the disparity. They were either tight groups or wide open with no in-between. 



My advice is to try as many pellets as possible starting with the recommendations here. And again, dont be disparaged. Most people use to shooting firearms will have difficulty with springers. This gun can, for me, be held snug but not tight (compared to my diana and HW that need to be held far looser). Pay attention to the trigger as you pull, and concentrate heavily on follow through. Most important thing is reproducing the "exact" hold each time, and recognize that there is a fairly big learning curve. I really do enjoy convincing my springers to shoot well. I have my firearms for different purposes and I feel being a good springer shooter is far more difficult than being a good firearm shooter. To have fun, get good at a springer then hand it off to a firearm friend and tell him to shoot a group as you watch his frustration trying to find your "trick". (But don't do this with an HW97 tuned to 12FPE because that one is almost idiot proof)

 

[seven08]

I just read this thread in it's entirety. Some very good advice has been shared. However, I do have some comments of my own to add.



First, Vortex does not make a specific series of scopes for airguns. ALL of their scope lines are perfectly suited to be mounted on the strongest of spring guns. Their no BS warranty is real. I used it with complete satisfaction for a damaged beyond repair scope that was through my own fault. I got a new replacement with no questions asked. I have two Vortex 4-12x's with a combined 30K shot count between them on Diana 34 .22's. No problems with them at all. To repeat what Glenroiland said "they are bullet proof" Buy one with confidence.



Also, I am a guy that shoots spring guns standing offhand at 75 yds. and beyond on a daily basis. I really get a kick out of clanking metal plates at 75-85-100 and 125 yds. My Diana 34's are extremely accurate when fed high quality pellets. These guns are capable of very accurate distant shooting.



This past week I was visiting relatives and brought a D34 .22 with me for practice. I had several opportunities to shoot in very still, like shooting indoors still, conditions at long distance. I had a 10" x 12" x.125 aluminum plate hung on a tree branch at a range finder measured distance of 138 yards. I placed a 2" white cardboard square about 28" above the target center for an aiming point. I turned the Vortex elevation turret up close to the top and set it at 4X magnification. All I had to do was hold the point of the lower reticle bold post on the square and squeeze. The pellets landed on the plate about every shot. It was a 10-12 degree downward angle which helped with reduced holdover need.



With absolutely no wind I had no trouble hitting any one of the quadrants by holding left or right of the white square. It was very satisfying to see the plate move and hear a nice loud clang, too. I did this for hours at a time when conditions allowed. Afternoon breezes made hitting at that distance a real challenge. Turning in minutes of left or right windage was needed to hit that plate. The impacting pellets just dropped straight down for easy picking up. A fair number of them passed through the 25% cut out.

I weighed a dozen flattened pellets and all retained their original 14.66 gr. weight.

I taught my son in law how to shoot standing offhand long ago and we both enjoyed taking turns with the D34 hitting that plate from the deck of his house.

 

[Glenroiland]

Seven08, I love to hear guys that shoot springers at these distances. And to look at those pellets, they still carried some good FPE to target!

I'm in the sub 50 yard category. And I can make VERY tight groups to 35. I still consider myself new to springers having started maybe around 2 years ago.

I shoot targets, pesting, and spinners. My favorite target distance is around 25 tards. At 25 yards, unless I have a flier (mostly my fault), I can do ragged one hole 5 shot groups. Past 25 I usually hit my spinners, boxes with re-settable animals, or animal targets that can be shot to reset, etc. I have a small spinner mounted at about 35 that i can always hit if gun is rested. I have much to do to catch up to you seven08! Good shooting!!

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Those pellets splat pretty good Bob ! Love the ears on those Mulies !

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

The one thing I don't like about the Sig is the effect temperature has on power. I shot mine the other day with the guns receiver tube registering 58-59 deg. The Sig Crux alloy pellet weighing 9.6 gr was shooting at 1025 fps. At 63-64 deg it's up to 1040 fps. When the tube is at room temp velocity is about 1050 fps. One day during the summer I left the rifle in my yard until it was showing 83 deg. At that temp I'm in the 1060's. Sig claims they rated the ASP20 at 70 degrees. That puts mine at 23 to 23.5 FPE at room temp. Their facility is about 100 ft above sea level. Very close to mine. So in cold weather I lose a foot pound. No big deal but I still don't like it. My M34 Classic doesn't seem be change that much from temperature. I do notice some changes between a barometer reading of 29.75 and 30.20 in hg.

 

[Glenroiland]

The one thing I don't like about the Sig is the effect temperature has on power. I shot mine the other day with the guns receiver tube registering 58-59 deg. The Sig Crux alloy pellet weighing 9.6 gr was shooting at 1025 fps. At 63-64 deg it's up to 1040 fps. When the tube is at room temp velocity is about 1050 fps. One day during the summer I left the rifle in my yard until it was showing 83 deg. At that temp I'm in the 1060's. Sig claims they rated the ASP20 at 70 degrees. That puts mine at 23 to 23.5 FPE at room temp. Their facility is about 100 ft above sea level. Very close to mine. So in cold weather I lose a foot pound. No big deal but I still don't like it. My M34 Classic doesn't seem be change that much from temperature. I do notice some changes between a barometer reading of 29.75 and 30.20 in hg.

Interesting. I felt that I had some poi shifting/fluctuating with ambient trmperature. Never chronied it, but makes sense. Poi shift wasn't terrible, but perceptible.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

The one thing I don't like about the Sig is the effect temperature has on power. I shot mine the other day with the guns receiver tube registering 58-59 deg. The Sig Crux alloy pellet weighing 9.6 gr was shooting at 1025 fps. At 63-64 deg it's up to 1040 fps. When the tube is at room temp velocity is about 1050 fps. One day during the summer I left the rifle in my yard until it was showing 83 deg. At that temp I'm in the 1060's. Sig claims they rated the ASP20 at 70 degrees. That puts mine at 23 to 23.5 FPE at room temp. Their facility is about 100 ft above sea level. Very close to mine. So in cold weather I lose a foot pound. No big deal but I still don't like it. My M34 Classic doesn't seem be change that much from temperature. I do notice some changes between a barometer reading of 29.75 and 30.20 in hg.

Interesting. I felt that I had some poi shifting/fluctuating with ambient trmperature. Never chronied it, but makes sense. Poi shift wasn't terrible, but perceptible.

I use a FLIR temperature gun to take my reading of the receiver before I chrony test. In cool weather the 13.3 gr Sig Wraith alloy was 860 fps while when it warms up I can get 885 fps. Were you stringing shots vertically and horizontally based on temp ?

 

[Glenroiland]

The one thing I don't like about the Sig is the effect temperature has on power. I shot mine the other day with the guns receiver tube registering 58-59 deg. The Sig Crux alloy pellet weighing 9.6 gr was shooting at 1025 fps. At 63-64 deg it's up to 1040 fps. When the tube is at room temp velocity is about 1050 fps. One day during the summer I left the rifle in my yard until it was showing 83 deg. At that temp I'm in the 1060's. Sig claims they rated the ASP20 at 70 degrees. That puts mine at 23 to 23.5 FPE at room temp. Their facility is about 100 ft above sea level. Very close to mine. So in cold weather I lose a foot pound. No big deal but I still don't like it. My M34 Classic doesn't seem be change that much from temperature. I do notice some changes between a barometer reading of 29.75 and 30.20 in hg.

Interesting. I felt that I had some poi shifting/fluctuating with ambient trmperature. Never chronied it, but makes sense. Poi shift wasn't terrible, but perceptible.

I use a FLIR temperature gun to take my reading of the receiver before I chrony test. In cool weather the 13.3 gr Sig Wraith alloy was 860 fps while when it warms up I can get 885 fps. Were you stringing shots vertically and horizontally based on temp ?

The shots were 90% vertical. They shifted slightly horizontal, but mostly vertical. And the ahift wasnt horrible, but for a gun that shoots so well for me, it was perceptible. Mostly happened when I'd bring the gun outside in the cold temps. It got to the point where I'dleave it outside a little while to acclimatee before I would shoot. But, if i centered the scope at one temperature and the next day the temp was mmuch higher (which we had a few days where one day was near 35 and the next near 60 or so) I'd notice the shift even more. Wasnt sure if it was scope, gun, or combo.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

The one thing I don't like about the Sig is the effect temperature has on power. I shot mine the other day with the guns receiver tube registering 58-59 deg. The Sig Crux alloy pellet weighing 9.6 gr was shooting at 1025 fps. At 63-64 deg it's up to 1040 fps. When the tube is at room temp velocity is about 1050 fps. One day during the summer I left the rifle in my yard until it was showing 83 deg. At that temp I'm in the 1060's. Sig claims they rated the ASP20 at 70 degrees. That puts mine at 23 to 23.5 FPE at room temp. Their facility is about 100 ft above sea level. Very close to mine. So in cold weather I lose a foot pound. No big deal but I still don't like it. My M34 Classic doesn't seem be change that much from temperature. I do notice some changes between a barometer reading of 29.75 and 30.20 in hg.

Interesting. I felt that I had some poi shifting/fluctuating with ambient trmperature. Never chronied it, but makes sense. Poi shift wasn't terrible, but perceptible.

I use a FLIR temperature gun to take my reading of the receiver before I chrony test. In cool weather the 13.3 gr Sig Wraith alloy was 860 fps while when it warms up I can get 885 fps. Were you stringing shots vertically and horizontally based on temp ?

The shots were 90% vertical. They shifted slightly horizontal, but mostly vertical. And the ahift wasnt horrible, but for a gun that shoots so well for me, it was perceptible. Mostly happened when I'd bring the gun outside in the cold temps. It got to the point where I'dleave it outside a little while to acclimatee before I would shoot. But, if i centered the scope at one temperature and the next day the temp was mmuch higher (which we had a few days where one day was near 35 and the next near 60 or so) I'd notice the shift even more. Wasnt sure if it was scope, gun, or combo.

There ya go ! Velocity changes will change POI.

 

[yonyb]

Hi.....probably unhelpful at this point, but I’ve recently picked up a new HW90 in .22 cal. My impression is that it seems smaller/lighter than people review it. I’ve only shot 8 pellets through it. Snow and day care schedule conflicts.

However, the last group of 4 (HN Baracuda Hunter Extremes) left a group to be covered by a quarter, with iron sights at 22 yards. Then my feet got really cold with melted snow. I think it will tighten up as I get better, & it breaks in with a few hundred pellets. Quick cycle in firing, decent trigger, and really a nice wood/metal finish. Airguns of Arizona sells for $579- cheapest I’ve found. Wish I had taken their advice on the Nikon Prostaff ( rated for springers), but got a UTG offering.....

Just an idea if you hadn’t fully made up your mind? The Sig looks really solid too. I think you’ll like gas rams in general. I at least I like the ‘thwack’ more than the ‘twang’ of a metal spring on shot cycle

All the best!

 

[Glenroiland]

Back home! Doing sone night time plinking with this set up (works quite well at night for pesting). These pellets (among a few others) are like lasers in this gun.

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Nice ! What kind of night pests are we talking about? That's a good weight of pellet for the ASP20.

What part of NY do live ?

 

[Glenroiland]

Nice ! What kind of night pests are we talking about? That's a good weight of pellet for the ASP20.

What part of NY do live ?

I live in a wooded area on long island (yes, they do exist). Cant see a single neighbor from my house, only woods. We get fox, deer, etc. My biggest pests are rats, chipmunks, squirrels. We get racoons and possums, but i dont often see them. I usually hear them and see their damage. 

 

[Portland]

Back home! Doing sone night time plinking with this set up (works quite well at night for pesting). These pellets (among a few others) are like lasers in this gun.

That's a really cool setup you've got there! Could you tell me more about your scope, light, and general setup?

 

[Glenroiland]

Thank you. The gun is my sig ASP 20 in .177. The light and mount are above (they say 350 yards, I call BS, but I EASILY see at night well over 50 yards...could probably easily see 100 or more). The light is green which hasn't really bothered the pests too much. They sometimes freeze when they "see" it, making them easier to shoot. The scope is my Vortex 2-7x35 which has WELL over 4500 rounds mounted on the sig, and perferms as it did when new. The scope mounts I'll have to look up my purchase history. I took a few crappy shots with my cell phone the first night i mounted it. I'll try to find them.



This set up allows me to night shoot, and pest for around $25.00.

Here is a crappy cell phone pic late at night looking through the scope at around 25 yards. I forget the magnification at the time..

The area I'm focused on here marks an area where rats use to travel between the woods and my back yard are. Caught a few unlucky ones here.....then I found their nest UNDER my garage and planted myself out there for quite a few cold nights...



Heres one unlucky fella

View attachment MTU3Nzg0MDQ2NF8xNDI2NDUyMDA5NWUwYmVmNTAwODdmOTUuNzI0NzM1MDZfU2NyZWVuc2hvdF8yMDE5MTIzMS0xOTU1MjNfTWVzc2FnZSAuanBn

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

Back home! Doing sone night time plinking with this set up (works quite well at night for pesting). These pellets (among a few others) are like lasers in this gun.

That's a really cool setup you've got there! Could you tell me more about your scope, light, and general setup?

Nice ! What kind of night pests are we talking about? That's a good weight of pellet for the ASP20.

What part of NY do live ?

I live in a wooded area on long island (yes, they do exist). Cant see a single neighbor from my house, only woods. We get fox, deer, etc. My biggest pests are rats, chipmunks, squirrels. We get racoons and possums, but i dont often see them. I usually hear them and see their damage.

I was born in Cattaraugus County ( outside Buffalo) in a town called Gowanda. Only spent the first four years of my life in NY.

That green light must not spook the pests. I have everything you mention around here except chipmunks. They tend to live in the higher terrain in more mountainous counties.

 

[Glenroiland]

Just asked my wife who is from upstate. She's not familiar with that area, but misses living up there. These chipmunks can be far more destructive than you'd think. And the green light seems to fare well. Some rats seem to "notice" it, but they don't run from it. It seems to catch their attention, especaly if i have the light focused all the way in (magnification).