New guy needs some advice! (springer calibre & optics)

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Portland

Portland

Member
Dec 24, 2019
5
0
Washington
Hey guys, 



My name is Paul and I'm new to the boards. I've been lurking for a while learning from various threads but finally decided it was time to join. I could really use your advice on a couple of questions. I have done my research googling various threads, looking up YouTube videos, and talking to local air gun shops but still need some help.



Here is what I am after: a springer rifle (no PCP), something quiet, something accurate, and something that I can stretch the range of (50-75 yards, but that can also hit fairly well at 100 yards). I have 5 acres with plenty of variety in the terrain. I would like something quiet so I'm not annoying the neighbors. 



1) I really like the features, look, and accuracy of the Sig Sauer ASP20. I am going to be buying one soon, but really can't decide on a calibre. I do a lot of plinking in my spare time with rimfire rifles but am new to the air rifle space. I may be doing some varmint hunting with it, but the main purpose of this gun is for target practice and plinking. I initially thought I would want to go with the .177, but the more I have researched the .22 may make more sense. It sounds like both can hit accurately at 75ish yards, with the .22 having more "stopping" power for hunting. I don't really care so much about the stopping power, I just want to be able to knock down small metal targets at 75 yards plus. Which calibre should I go with?



2). Optics. I have had the hardest time with his one. I really like Vortex optics, but have been discouraged with the reviews on their air rifle scopes. Right now I am considering the Leupold VX Freedom 3x9x33 AO, or one of the Hawke Airmax scopes. At minimum I would like a 3x9 scope, but I also don't want something too big so a 6x would be maximum. I think a 4x12 is the sweet spot. What I am looking for out of a scope is; great glass and clarity, adjustable objective, and something well built. I am less concerned with price as I am finding a scope that will last a while. Which scopes should I be looking at? 



Thanks in advance!
Paul
 
I would go .22 cal ! The powerplant of the Sig is more suited to the bigger bore. I think Dairyboy has one for sale in the classified section. I think it was $280 for the synthetic stock version. The Sig is not that loud in my opinion. I live in a condominium complex and chronograph in my 14x9 " backyard. So far, no knocks on my door.

The scopes your thinking of are good choices. I have the Whiskey3 4-12X44 on mine and for $164 shipped it was a good price for the quality of the scope.



Welcome aboard Paul !
 
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Hard to top a leupold scope. A springer beyond 50 is doable but it will likely be a bit unpleasant to shoot due to recoil and cocking effort. Also heavy 

I love my HW 30 and would suggest that gun for most of what you want to do with an air gun. The gun is just user friendly.

This air gun stuff is a slippery slope. If you get interested and really need something for longer ranges you may be better off going PCP . 

This is very much like powder burners. We would always suggest starting a fellow off with a good 22 rl then to put him onto a 300 Winchester mag. . 

There are other good springers as well but I’d suggest not buying a high power springer or at least not as a starter. .
 
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Expecting 75-100 yards out of a springer is a bit unrealistic. Unless you are very experienced with one and even then it is probably not the best tool for those distances. Also, the more powerful the springer, the more difficult they become to shoot. I would recommend looking into the Weihrauch's or any of the German made spring guns and doing a bit more research before you buy. That will save you disappointment later on due to unrealistic expectations.
 
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Expecting 75-100 yards out of a springer is a bit unrealistic. Unless you are very experienced with one and even then it is probably not the best tool for those distances. Also, the more powerful the springer, the more difficult they become to shoot. I would recommend looking into the Weihrauch's or any of the German made spring guns and doing a bit more research before you buy. That will save you disappointment later on due to unrealistic expectations.
Click to expand...

That is true ! Those kind of ranges are really unrealistic for a springer. More like 50-60 yrds is more realistic.
 
Upvote 0
Expecting 75-100 yards out of a springer is a bit unrealistic. Unless you are very experienced with one and even then it is probably not the best tool for those distances. Also, the more powerful the springer, the more difficult they become to shoot. I would recommend looking into the Weihrauch's or any of the German made spring guns and doing a bit more research before you buy. That will save you disappointment later on due to unrealistic expectations.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Weihrauch spring guns are easy to service and customize yourself. The Sig seems like a fine gun, but it is not designed to be serviced or customized by the user.

In addition, Krale generally has the best prices on the hw30, hw50, hw95 and hw97k. I own them all except the hw95 and my favorite and most accurate springer is the .177 hw97k.

If you plan to target shoot at distances out to 70-75 yards, then go with a .177. The flatter trajectory will help with accuracy and consistency. At about 14.5fpe, pellet drop in .22 is 8”-9” between 60 and 70 yards.

Good luck choosing.

R


 
Upvote 0
Expecting 75-100 yards out of a springer is a bit unrealistic. Unless you are very experienced with one and even then it is probably not the best tool for those distances. Also, the more powerful the springer, the more difficult they become to shoot. I would recommend looking into the Weihrauch's or any of the German made spring guns and doing a bit more research before you buy. That will save you disappointment later on due to unrealistic expectations.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Weihrauch spring guns are easy to service and customize yourself. The Sig seems like a fine gun, but it is not designed to be serviced or customized by the user.

In addition, Krale generally has the best prices on the hw30, hw50, hw95 and hw97k. I own them all except the hw95 and my favorite and most accurate springer is the .177 hw97k.

If you plan to target shoot at distances out to 70-75 yards, then go with a .177. The flatter trajectory will help with accuracy and consistency. At about 14.5fpe, pellet drop in .22 is 8”-9” between 60 and 70 yards.

Good luck choosing.

R

Click to expand...

" At about 14.5fpe, pellet drop in .22 is 8”-9” between 60 and 70 yards. "

Wonder what it is at 23 fpe ?
 
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I love my asp20 in .177, and my diana 48 in .22 for most of my shooting needs. Neither of them are as accurate as my hw97, but they are both very good shooters for me. I regularly shoot 35 yards, and I know I could EASILY shoot well out to 50. I hunt, target shoot, and plink. I think for me, anything past 35 yards will likely be spinners, plinking, etc. Going out to 100???????



If I were to redo it, I think I'd get the sig in .22, but I wanted a different caliber so I went with the .177. In terms of optics, I have well over 6,500 rounds with 2 vortex and they are serving me very well. No problems at all, tracking is perfect, hold zero, clear optics, good light collection, and great warranty. A Leopold is on the hw97, and it is a great scope. Can't go wrong with either.
 
Upvote 0
Expecting 75-100 yards out of a springer is a bit unrealistic. Unless you are very experienced with one and even then it is probably not the best tool for those distances. Also, the more powerful the springer, the more difficult they become to shoot. I would recommend looking into the Weihrauch's or any of the German made spring guns and doing a bit more research before you buy. That will save you disappointment later on due to unrealistic expectations.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Weihrauch spring guns are easy to service and customize yourself. The Sig seems like a fine gun, but it is not designed to be serviced or customized by the user.

In addition, Krale generally has the best prices on the hw30, hw50, hw95 and hw97k. I own them all except the hw95 and my favorite and most accurate springer is the .177 hw97k.

If you plan to target shoot at distances out to 70-75 yards, then go with a .177. The flatter trajectory will help with accuracy and consistency. At about 14.5fpe, pellet drop in .22 is 8”-9” between 60 and 70 yards.

Good luck choosing.

R

Click to expand...

" At about 14.5fpe, pellet drop in .22 is 8”-9” between 60 and 70 yards. "

Wonder what it is at 23 fpe ?
Click to expand...


At 23 FPE that drop is about 5 inches between 60 and 75 yards. What they are saying is true. Worse than that is trying to get accuracy from a 23 FPE spring rifle.

Stretching a springer out beyond 50 yards IS asking for more than is reasonable. Finding a spring rifle that will also hold a group the size of a golf ball at 70 yards is also asking a lot. Sure it can be done. The question is "Can it be expected?" and the answer to that question is "No". 

I did the "Long Ranger" challenge at 150 yards with a D460. It took several shots but the video in on youtube. Just search for Oldspooks channel on youtube. That was a tuned rifle with a total cost of ownership around $1000.00 if you count the glass. I took a squirrel at 78 yards with my D48 using an ATN Xsight II and the video is also up on youtube. AND that is precisely how hard it is to do those things with a springer. It is so hard that you make videos of it to show off. I won't be trying either of those shots again because luck has too much to do with it.

Fifty yards is probably a maximum practical limit with a spring rifle. Going beyond that while hunting is probably not really humane.
 
Upvote 0
Expecting 75-100 yards out of a springer is a bit unrealistic. Unless you are very experienced with one and even then it is probably not the best tool for those distances. Also, the more powerful the springer, the more difficult they become to shoot. I would recommend looking into the Weihrauch's or any of the German made spring guns and doing a bit more research before you buy. That will save you disappointment later on due to unrealistic expectations.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Weihrauch spring guns are easy to service and customize yourself. The Sig seems like a fine gun, but it is not designed to be serviced or customized by the user.

In addition, Krale generally has the best prices on the hw30, hw50, hw95 and hw97k. I own them all except the hw95 and my favorite and most accurate springer is the .177 hw97k.

If you plan to target shoot at distances out to 70-75 yards, then go with a .177. The flatter trajectory will help with accuracy and consistency. At about 14.5fpe, pellet drop in .22 is 8”-9” between 60 and 70 yards.

Good luck choosing.

R

Click to expand...

" At about 14.5fpe, pellet drop in .22 is 8”-9” between 60 and 70 yards. "

Wonder what it is at 23 fpe ?
Click to expand...


At 23 FPE that drop is about 5 to seven inches. What they are saying is true. Stretching a springer out beyond 50 yards is asking for a lot. Finding a spring rifle that will also hold a group the size of a golf ball at 70 yards is asking a lot. These things can be done. I did the "Long Ranger" challenge at 150 yards with a D460. It took several shots but the video in on youtube. That was a tuned rifle with a total cost of ownership around $800.00 if you count the glass. I took a squirrel at 78 yards with my D48 using an ATN Xsight II and the video is up on youtube. AND that is precisely how hard it is to do those things with a springer. It is so hard that you make videos of it to show off. I won't be trying either of those shots again because luck has too much to do with it.
Click to expand...

I'd agree ! I know Don (VETNUTT) has shot some decent groups at 50 yd with his Sig. For me, 30-40 yd is my comfort zone.
 
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Skip the SIG spend a few extra dollars and get yourself an HW80 or Beeman R1. It will hold its value much longer and is easily tuneable with off the shelf parts to get the velocity you want. Or you can send it off to a reputable tuner. These are built like tanks, there’s lots of info out there on them and has the best trigger in the business. I’d stick with .177, I have mine set up to shoot the 10.3 gr JSB at about 850 fps. The shot cycle Is smooth for a home tune. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. 



Oh ya , welcome to the madness. 
 
Upvote 0
Skip the SIG spend a few extra dollars and get yourself an HW80 or Beeman R1. It will hold its value much longer and is easily tuneable with off the shelf parts to get the velocity you want. Or you can send it off to a reputable tuner. These are built like tanks, there’s lots of info out there on them and has the best trigger in the business. I’d stick with .177, I have mine set up to shoot the 10.3 gr JSB at about 850 fps. The shot cycle Is smooth for a home tune. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. 



Oh ya , welcome to the madness.
Click to expand...

You can't go wrong with the hw80 or r1. Wonderful accuracy, power, etc. I do enjoy some tinkering here and there. Recently tuned my diana48 with great results. However, there is something about the asp 20 that I love. My firearm side of me loves this gun, and I love how is shoots out of the box and some part of me likes that I cant tinker too much with it. It is what it is, makes no apologies, and is a wonderful shooter for me. The trigger turned our to be an unexpected dream for me, and compares favorably to any trigger I've pulled. Id five the overall edge to a rekord of course, but his trigger is fantastic (at least mine is on my gun).



But, any of the guns mentioned you cant go wrong.
 
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Merry Christmas everyone!

Wow. Such great advice! Thank you all for weighing in. I will absolutely take a look at HWs, however before I dive deep into this hobby I want to make sure it's something I really like. As Glenroiland has said, the firearm side of me really likes that the Sig is expected to shoot well out of the box without a ton of modifications. That is appealing to me. Given that I have a good chunk of credit with Sig, I'll be able to pick up the ASP20 for a little over $100. Lots to consider with the range as well. I appreciate the reality check on the range I can expect with a springer. I would be perfectly content to have good groupings at 50-60 yards with the occasional long distance shot "for fun". I will start with the ASP20 and if I really like it I will look into a nicer, more adjustable, rifle. Based on what I'm reading it sounds like .22 may be the way to go for me. I want that extra bit of power to be able to knock down my steel targets, or at least hear the satisfying "PLINK". :)

What about optics? What types of scopes are you guys running? bubblerboy64 affirmed that Leupold is a good way to go. Unfortunately there are not a lot of options in the Leupold line that have an adjustable objective other than the Freedom 3x9x33mm. Some of the Hawke scopes looked pretty nice. I would go with the Whiskey3 from Sig, however recent poor experience with another Sig optic caused me to shy away from buying Sig optics. Thoughts on scopes?


Thanks!!
Paul
 
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Merry Christmas everyone!

Wow. Such great advice! Thank you all for weighing in. I will absolutely take a look at HWs, however before I dive deep into this hobby I want to make sure it's something I really like. As Glenroiland has said, the firearm side of me really likes that the Sig is expected to shoot well out of the box without a ton of modifications. That is appealing to me. Given that I have a good chunk of credit with Sig, I'll be able to pick up the ASP20 for a little over $100. Lots to consider with the range as well. I appreciate the reality check on the range I can expect with a springer. I would be perfectly content to have good groupings at 50-60 yards with the occasional long distance shot "for fun". I will start with the ASP20 and if I really like it I will look into a nicer, more adjustable, rifle. Based on what I'm reading it sounds like .22 may be the way to go for me. I want that extra bit of power to be able to knock down my steel targets, or at least hear the satisfying "PLINK". :)

What about optics? What types of scopes are you guys running? bubblerboy64 affirmed that Leupold is a good way to go. Unfortunately there are not a lot of options in the Leupold line that have an adjustable objective other than the Freedom 3x9x33mm. Some of the Hawke scopes looked pretty nice. I would go with the Whiskey3 from Sig, however recent poor experience with another Sig optic caused me to shy away from buying Sig optics. Thoughts on scopes?


Thanks!!
Paul
Click to expand...

" I'll be able to pick up the ASP20 for a little over $100 "

BUY IT !!
 
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I am really pleased with my sig. it is the synthetic version. It shoulders and cocks way nicer than my R1 (HW80) Is not near as hold sensitive standing. But I also had my reservations due to untunability and I like to tinker. I have Posted some 50 yard groups under old bull vs young bull thread. Mine is in .177 though and I am shooting front bag rested only. I think you made a very good choice!
 
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Thanks for all of the information everyone. I have made my purchase.

I figured since this is my first Springer, I don't want to break the bank but want a good, reliable, and accurate rifle to plink around with. I went with the Sig Sauer ASP20 in .117 calibre. I got the wood stock, but opted to buy the rifle without the SIg Whiskey3 scope. As mentioned, I have not had the best experience with Sig optics. I also bought a couple of tins of .117 calibre pellets that were recommended on some of the YouTube reviews. I went with:

-JSB Diabolo Exact Monster in 13.43 grain

-H&N Baracuda Hunter Hollowpoint in 10.34 grain

-Sig Sauer Match Lead Pellets in 8.18 grain



For the optic I opted for a Leupold scope. I purchased the Leupold VX Freedom EFR 3-9x33mm with the adjustable objective. I am mounting it on a set of "low" Leupold rings. 

I'm pretty stoked to put it all together and get out there!

Thanks again for all of the advice.

p.s. I made the mistake of looking up some "PCP" guns when I was browsing YouTube. I think there may be one of those in my future as well. The sickness is real.. :D 
 
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I am really pleased with my sig. it is the synthetic version. It shoulders and cocks way nicer than my R1 (HW80) Is not near as hold sensitive standing. But I also had my reservations due to untunability and I like to tinker. I have Posted some 50 yard groups under old bull vs young bull thread. Mine is in .177 though and I am shooting front bag rested only. I think you made a very good choice!
Click to expand...

This.



And i want you to be realistic about "good groups". Do alot of research on hold techniques, and be prepared to have a large learning curve. Most people that start with firearms have a frustrating time with springers. But, I get great joy out of the idiosyncrasies of springers and coaxing and convincing the gun to give me my best (i still think my asp could shoot even better than i can with it)



As far as optics go, i am not shy about recomending Vortex or Leopold. I shoot with both, although i have more Vortex. Glass is very clear for the money, and they are "bullet proof".
 
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