New .22 Slug Data WOW

[jwrabbit123]

Here is 2 pics of slugs in 25 cal pushed threw a new LW unchoked barrel blank , I am not good with a camera or my writing skills

us

here is pic of 22 cal 552 slug 2 outer ones pushed threw new LW unchoked blanks , the center pellet is pushed threw a choked edgun 22 barrel it is much deeper as u can see

 

[Glem.Chally]

That's exactly what I was looking for, I know how hard it is to take a good closeup pic and catch the light just right. Thanks very much JW, so after sizing it looks similar to your .25 ones. Your unchoked LW barrels are traditional rifling or polygon? Looks like traditional.

Yeah looks like you really had to work to get that slug through the edgun barrel.

 

[13brv3]

Interesting that you have that much of the rings left. I pushed sized and unsized MP slugs through the Impact X slug liner, and there's barely any sign of the rings. It's also VERY obvious that there's still some choke on the slug liner. I pushed some NSA slugs through as well. 

Overall, I was surprised how much this smeared lead to the rear of the slug. As I understand it, you want the base of the slug to be as uniform as possible, to reduce the tendency to get pushed off axis as it exist the barrel. Boat tails were better to some extent, but the full diameter portion of the slug is still smeared unevenly to the rear, so it may still reduce accuracy. 

BTW, note that there's typically a ring on the rear from the cleaning probe that was used to push the slugs through. 

Rusty

 

[Glem.Chally]

Wow that is tight! Much more smear than i was expecting, great pics rusty and thanks.

Heres a couple sized ones i pushed through a standard smooth twist, they basically fell down the barrel till the choke.

 

[13brv3]

It would be interesting to find a 700mm slug liner and cut it down to 600 to eliminate the choke. Heck, you could do the same with the pellet A liner as well, since they seem to be the same other than the amount of choke. It's tempting, but then you'd figure FX would have tested all this, and knows the choke works better. 

BTW, I'm glad you asked about this, because it's something I was curious about anyway. 

Rusty

 

[jwrabbit123]

WAIT I thought the slug liners ere unchoked ?

They must be unchoked?



ib3 who makes those slugs you ? what caliber and weight rebutbotail

LOL it is so hard to see rifling on a lug over the internet but I can tell you this , any of my accurace 22 25 and 30 cal slugs I can push threw with drag not too ,uch and if gun is choked the pressure is about 30% harder to push threw .

If I had t give a example I would say 10 pounds pressure to push to choke then 20 pounds to push threw choke ,

It cant puh threw with no resistance or it wont spin , and u shouldnt have to hammer slug threw with a sledge hammer or it wont leave barrel when u fire ,

I always measure a pushed threw slug and add .0005 and I find this amount of drag to spin perfect ,



Ha of all my bleeding edge guns in 22 cal , I hate to say this statement but I got to , I on 8 22 cal and most shoot slugs perfect , but the best one in 22 cal is my oldest pcp gun lol it is over 10 yrs old , The mags are 1 inch deep and gun stock is 60fpe perfect for a 22 slug gun with mp , I am so glad I didnt sell it here , I listed it to sell prior to getting mold ,now it is a keeper , ohh it is a evanix ar6

it outshoots every brand out there including fx , edgun , airarms, spa , kalibr, taipan go figure

 

[13brv3]

The FX slug liner definitely has a choke, though I was told it was a slight choke, compared to the pellet liner I assume. Pushing the slugs though was a confirmation of that, since they were hard initially, then didn't take much effort for most of the barrel. At the very end, they became hard to push again. it would be interesting to push one most of the way through, then push it back out the breech end to see what it looks like without going through the choked portion. 

There were 3 different slugs in my pictures, the MP cast slugs, NSA 30gr, and NSA 28grBT. 

I'd be interested to know what the theory of those rings on the MB slugs is. It seems bad for aerodynamics, and in some barrels they get mostly smeared off. Either way, it doesn't seem like something you'd want. Maybe it allows you to have a longer slug, without raising the weight any more than you have to?

Cheers,

Rusty

 

[jwrabbit123]

well why do you say this ? a diablo pellet is accurate and it has a skirt , This is only molds I have had with air gun molds , I have used them in a muzzle loaders with good outcome before , but I like The idea of a ring It bites in better then a pellet skirt to get the spin , the shape cuts air very well , they are stable in mine , I have had good luck with shapes like this with out rings as well , You know I have made many which looked great but just flew poor , and I believe alot more variables are involved , some can be overcome some cant as if you use wrong weight to twist rate . But Those rebutted boatails really shoot well with a 90 degree choke .

 

[Glem.Chally]

Ended up trading for a 5.52 with d-rig, sorry JW dale had asked first.

Cranked out a bunch, 11lbs worth between a few hours last night and a few this morning. These chamber with a little pressure with no sizing i think theyll be more accurate. Hopefully get out tomorriw morning for a bit, got my casting skills getting better as i didnt have many culls.

These all passed QC

These weigh 35.5-36gr so this makes about 62fpe at 155bar reg setting in that nasty Boss.

Push through, perfecccct size

 

[D-RIG]

That slug look good , so your getting good contact

around the last drive band to seal up the barrel , 

keep us posted on they they do for you . 

 

[jwrabbit123]

I have had instability issues with st barrels with these , I believe the twist rate is too slow

 

[Glem.Chally]

I have had instability issues with st barrels with these , I believe the twist rate is too slow

Not surprising, the original smooth twist and even the stx non slug liners were never made to shoot slugs.

I have a lw unchoked polygon in the Boss. Heres some groups at 50m from this am with the 5.52 mp

And 100m

 

[Killemdead]

Now thats Impressive....very very nice shooting

 

[LewisP12]

Hi Guys

Here in South Africa, we are only now entering the slug shooting game. NSA slugs are available but at the price of a shotgun shell, so that’s a no go.

I have been watching MP website since December to see when their 5.52 mm moulds will be available, still waiting.

I am asking if somebody would be prepared to supply me with some sample slugs, I have a mate who flies into New York regularly. I would require the slugs to be posted to his hotel and I am not sure on how to pay you.

 

[TrinityMaker]

OK well I have been shooting these slugs today and here is a group from My Taipan Veteran STD , The pellet tune was 900fps with JSB !8 gr I had to bump it up for these well they chamber fine no resizing needed ,So far I shot in Airforce , Taipan , Evanix AR6 and they shot well in all of them . so I found they can shoot accurately from 650 to 1100 fps and you can get them from 36 to 30 grains . here is picture of 10 shots 100 yard groups , the conditions were , 28 degrees , wind None . snowing lightly

OK if you look close at these you will look and say ohh it has a lube ring and it looks like a 22 long rifle bullet , well you would be wrong if you look very close you will see the 2 rigs are different size and the front ring is like size of a JSB head of pellet and the rear is like the skirt , o in essence less drag , and it seals like piston rings in a car engine and here is another good thing . due to this , these will shoot in Most Choked barrel fine unlike regular slugs which too much friction in choke messes up accuracy . I will do more testing the BC is like 4.1 x higher then a JSB so long range is accuracy superb , and wind just does not throw off POI like pellets do ,

The reason the slugs are so accurate is because the largest drive band actually concentrically seals the grooves of the rifling in your barrel. Unlike undersized slugs (.218, .217, or smaller) that only engage the lands, but leave a small concentric gap between the slug and the grooves, the slug is designed to have a surface area that simulates a pellet. I own the mold in .22 and .25. The slugs are EXTREMELY sensitive to clipping. So if your suppressor isn't perfectly centered, you might get a flyer on occasion. But I chimed in or Roachcreek's thread about how you might be wasting your money on slugs if you're not actually slugging your barrel and finding a slug that not only engages the rifling, but seals the grooves as well. Your results are proof of concept. You could put that group up against any FX with a smooth twist barrel, any day of the week. The reason the FX's are so accurate is because the slugs they use seal perfectly inside of the barrel. The smooth twist barrel has no rifling for the slugs to engage and hold them in place. So the slug is .0005" larger than the barrel diameter. If it wasn't, the slug would just slip out the end of the barrel when the rifle was jostled and moved in a hunting situation. But the slugs stay put, because they are ever so slightly larger than the inner diameter and they seal perfectly in the barrel. So there's no wasted air pushing past the slug before the slug leaves the barrel to destabilize the round. That's what happens with rifles that have a land groove diameter of .214/.221 (Lothar-Walther) and they shoot a .217 slug. You have a .002" concentric gap around the slug. With 3000 psi behind the slug, 1/3 of your energy/air is lost through the gap. And the air is moving much faster than the slug is, so it gets destabilized. But a properly sealing slug is proving to be just as accurate as the FX rifle can produce. Case and point- your 100 yard group.

Those slugs aren't for the faint of heart. They are heavy for .22 slugs, weighing in at 36gr. I'm not sure how you get them to 30gr though. All of mine fall within 35.8 to 36.2gr. They also like to be pushed FAST! I have found that boat tail designs stabilize better at higher velocities.

However, when using a slug that seals the grooves, you need to be careful about your alloy blend. I recommend 100% pure lead. As soft as possible. If the slug is too hard, you will rob yourself of velocity. It's not a powder burner, so you don't have to worry about lead fouling in the barrel. Keep them soft. I realize that tin and antimony make for a much cleaner cast, but in my opinion it's not worth it.

Just out of curiosity, what is the twist on your barrel? Are you using a 1:17.7 or a 1:16?

 

[TrinityMaker]

I have had instability issues with st barrels with these , I believe the twist rate is too slow

Not surprising, the original smooth twist and even the stx non slug liners were never made to shoot slugs.

I have a lw unchoked polygon in the Boss. Heres some groups at 50m from this am with the 5.52 mp

And 100m

I think I would have only cast about 100-150 slugs and tested them before I cast 11 pounds worth. That's just my opinion. I have that mold, and I cast about 400-500 one time. It took a long time! And that yielded about 3 or 4 pounds worth. So you must have been there for a LONG TIME casting those slugs.

 

[Glem.Chally]

I have had instability issues with st barrels with these , I believe the twist rate is too slow

Not surprising, the original smooth twist and even the stx non slug liners were never made to shoot slugs.

I have a lw unchoked polygon in the Boss. Heres some groups at 50m from this am with the 5.52 mp

And 100m

I think I would have only cast about 100-150 slugs and tested them before I cast 11 pounds worth. That's just my opinion. I have that mold, and I cast about 400-500 one time. It took a long time! And that yielded about 3 or 4 pounds worth. So you must have been there for a LONG TIME casting those slugs.

Yeah was my first experience casting and got a bit excited haha. Really didnt take that long and kind of got in the zone. I only have about a tin left and have had good luck with them. 

 

[TrinityMaker]

When Gregor introduced these slugs, I think he made mention they were designed for Lothar Walther and other rifled barrel manufacturers with choked or un-choked barrels. I haven't heard good results from using them in FX slug liners because of the larger diameter of the slugs. 13brv3 posted pics of the slugs being pushed through a FX smooth twist barrel. You can see how the drive bands are non existent after slugging the barrel. But even with the NOE ammo, you can see concentric lead smearing on the body of the slug. That NOE slug is doing EXACTLY what it's supposed to be doing. The slugs should be pure, soft lead, and the lead should concentrically seal the inner diameter of the barrel. But if you push a .217 or .218 NSA slug through a 22 caliber LW barrel, you will only see deformations on the slug where the rifling has engaged the slug. But no smearing on the body. That's because the groove diameter is .221", and there's a nice concentric gap between the body of the slug and the grooves. And this gap wastes air/power, AND creates instability. But the .22 MP molds slugs (5.52mm) shoot great out of rifled barrels. This is because the largest drive band is 5.66mm (.222"), so it concentrically seals in the barrel. Same with the .25 MP molds slugs. Lothar Walthers .25 barrel has a groove diameter of .254". Well, NSA ammo's .25 slugs are only available in .249 or .250. Again..... there's a gap around the body of the slug and the groove diameter. But the MP Molds slugs shoot great out of the barrel. This is because the largest drive band on the 6.35mm slug is 6.46mm (.254"). So it concentrically seals the grooves.

I've been trying DESPERATELY to get the slug manufacturers to swage slugs in .221" for 22 caliber rifled barrels. I wish just one of them would listen to me and give them a try. Then some of the well known guys with YouTube channels can test them side by side with their .218 counterparts and see how the accuracy will improve. That's why I started powder coating my .218 slugs up to .2205/.221. But if slug manufacturers would actually make slugs in a .221" diameter, there would be no need to powder coat. Other than a micron thin layer to prevent lead fouling (optional). But I assure you that if one of the manufacturers started swagging slugs in .221, you would see significant improvements in long range accuracy from LW and other rifled barrels.

 

[DanielL]

I want to see slugs like these with huge hollowpoints. To me, one of the big advantages for slugs over diablo's is BC AND expansion. They don't need to be crazy aerodynamic to beat pellets. This is why I love the NSA's. The issue with NSA's is the friction from the solid walls. Would like to see more expanding ringed slugs. Pic of .25 NSA slug recovered from game.