Need to upgrade from current scope on my 25 Bullpup. Have Hawke 4x16x44 sf 30mm compact. Not very clear & not enough eye relief. Need to be able to see pellet hole @ 50 yards. Considering Aztect Emerald 3x18x50 and Sightron STac 4x20x50. Side focus a must. Dont want minimum power above 4x or max more than 20x. Second focal plane is fine with some type of graduated reticle Thanks guys
Need to upgrade scope $500-ish
- Thread starter Okie2
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These are night and day clearer than both Aztec Emerald and Sightron S-TAC.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/sound-decision-or-waste-of-money/#post-902193
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/hawke-sidewinder-30-riflescope-h5/?referrer=1
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/sound-decision-or-waste-of-money/#post-902193
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/hawke-sidewinder-30-riflescope-h5/?referrer=1
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Highly suggest a Helix from element optics. I have one of the new FFP Helix and wow amazing glass. I was a Marine and shot long distance with AR-15's often, also a designated marksman rifle and I am super picky about my optics, When I got to the Civilian world I was weary about my optics, I chose a couple different ones and just did not like what I was getting for my money. I saw a couple of months this came out gave it a shot and WOW. They also have a SFP version of the Helix that's like 60 bucks cheaper I think. Optics Planet has them, Utah, Pyramid I think. Good luck and let us know what you chose and how you liked it!
(Currently swtiching it from my Savage 10 .308, Remington 700 also .308 and my 25/30 caliber FX Crown {i like to switch back and forth depending on what I'm doing})
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You are better off buying the ON SALE AT MidwayUSA Bushnell Engage 6-24x50 SFP or the Nitro 6-24x50 SFP if you don't want to try an A6 which is optically superior BTW.
They aren't ILLUMINATED FYI but offers the best bang 4 the buck in optical clarity when not considering the A6 and if you really don't want daytime visible illumination nor a perfect (IMHO) reticle.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018726884?pid=572346
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020055352
Here's the deals of the century but they are heavy. Only the Tract Toric are better for under $2000.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619370?pid=223277
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619264?pid=133422
They aren't ILLUMINATED FYI but offers the best bang 4 the buck in optical clarity when not considering the A6 and if you really don't want daytime visible illumination nor a perfect (IMHO) reticle.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018726884?pid=572346
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020055352
Here's the deals of the century but they are heavy. Only the Tract Toric are better for under $2000.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619370?pid=223277
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619264?pid=133422
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The Helix was on sale for $299 at DVOR recently.
Buy it ONLY from a return for refund friendly dealer because you may not like the eyebox. Everybody's eyes different though and the glass might be just good enough for you but still not as clear as the A6.
Buy it ONLY from a return for refund friendly dealer because you may not like the eyebox. Everybody's eyes different though and the glass might be just good enough for you but still not as clear as the A6.
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I posted this elsewhere but it was posed to be here.
I have three of the Aztecs and although, I can see, they are not perfect but I absolutely love them and they are good enough for me. Odoyle has a problem with them though. He is more of a scope connoisseur. I have found his experiences to be spot on on the scopes he has compared and commented on. He notices even minuscule differences that would be easy to overlook.
I have three of the Aztecs and although, I can see, they are not perfect but I absolutely love them and they are good enough for me. Odoyle has a problem with them though. He is more of a scope connoisseur. I have found his experiences to be spot on on the scopes he has compared and commented on. He notices even minuscule differences that would be easy to overlook.
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Do you use the illumination on your lower end scopes often? I haven't really focused on it. I do have a an Acog that's illuminated for my AR15 And sometimes its good but sometimes it can be too bright and completely in the way. But then again that's a higher end optic. I don't have any 4-500 optics that are illuminated idk if I trust illumination to be amazing on battery operated optics. That Tritium ( i think its called) is amazing.
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I use them and appreciate illumination in dark backgrounds during mid day hours sniping birds hidden in dark shadowy trees. It's also useful shooting in near pitch dark just click to level 1 or 2 barely visible illumination won't overpower or stray from concentrating on the target at hand. Crank it up to the max if you want to see the black center bullseye at your 100 yard paper target in sunlight.
The rheostat illumination knob on the A6 models are noticeably better than most illuminated scopes including ridiculously priced tier1 scopes I have compared them to.
The rheostat illumination knob on the A6 models are noticeably better than most illuminated scopes including ridiculously priced tier1 scopes I have compared them to.
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I got buddies click at 50 and 100 and 200 yards they claim no issues with repeatability however I personally don't click using any of my Chinese made scopes regardless of price and just holdover as a personal preference. I used to click with my Chinese made scopes years ago until I wore them out till they wouldn't track any more namely Bushnell Engage x2 but at least warranty worked but stopped clicking after that. MTC VIPER PRO similar issue but surprised it got a click specific type ballistic geared turret I wouldn't trust any more for $649.
Question is NOT IF they fail (all end up failing with repeated clicking) it's WHEN. Even had Japan and USA made Scopes got failures here personal experience old JAPAN HAKKO and USA MADE BURRIS wore out the clicks then free spinning LIKE A CAR RADIO KNOB. AT LEAST THE BURRIS STILL SOMEWHAT TRACKS FREE WHEELING AND ALL.
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I got refund on all 3 models of the Element scopes I tried.
They weren't clear enough for me that's all.
I use the Alpha6 to pair up against to do minimum acceptable TO KEEP OR NOT.
If it can't at least equal the optics of the $200 scope no point on keeping them right?
Only exception if I paid WAY less money than they normally sell for like at least HALF PRICE then a Less critical more forgiving comparison takes place.
I returned the Helix even at the $299 price I paid. It just wasn't right to me that's all glass was below average for the price point and worse eyebox than the 3-15x42 SWFA SS IMHO.
It does have a better than average clickable turret that I wouldn't use anyway though.
Always buy from return for refund friendly dealers as a rule of thumb unless you like getting stuck with unacceptable overpriced items that you paid your hard earned money for.
I must admit I too am an idiot sometimes buying tier1 scopes and actually end up keeping them due to the sheer greatness of their glass since they pass the A6 side by side test if they don't make me feel dizzy like Schmidt and Benders I returned.
I strongly believe any scope that cost more than $200 has to be brighter and clearer with a friendlier eyebox than the Alpha6 is it asking for too much? That's the BARE MINIMUM then it's worth paying more than $200 for ANY SCOPE.
AND!
If spending more than $80 - $100 it HAS TO BE AT LEAST clearer and nicer than the Centerpoint 30mm Side Focus SFP 3-12x44 PLT BDC that the UTG Leapers Bugbuster is side focus is definitely not.
You may see a lot of scopes 4sale on the classifieds and seldom any Alpha6s that must really tell you something. If you do see an A6 4sale on the classifieds it's gone by the time you blink.
They weren't clear enough for me that's all.
I use the Alpha6 to pair up against to do minimum acceptable TO KEEP OR NOT.
If it can't at least equal the optics of the $200 scope no point on keeping them right?
Only exception if I paid WAY less money than they normally sell for like at least HALF PRICE then a Less critical more forgiving comparison takes place.
I returned the Helix even at the $299 price I paid. It just wasn't right to me that's all glass was below average for the price point and worse eyebox than the 3-15x42 SWFA SS IMHO.
It does have a better than average clickable turret that I wouldn't use anyway though.
Always buy from return for refund friendly dealers as a rule of thumb unless you like getting stuck with unacceptable overpriced items that you paid your hard earned money for.
I must admit I too am an idiot sometimes buying tier1 scopes and actually end up keeping them due to the sheer greatness of their glass since they pass the A6 side by side test if they don't make me feel dizzy like Schmidt and Benders I returned.
I strongly believe any scope that cost more than $200 has to be brighter and clearer with a friendlier eyebox than the Alpha6 is it asking for too much? That's the BARE MINIMUM then it's worth paying more than $200 for ANY SCOPE.
AND!
If spending more than $80 - $100 it HAS TO BE AT LEAST clearer and nicer than the Centerpoint 30mm Side Focus SFP 3-12x44 PLT BDC that the UTG Leapers Bugbuster is side focus is definitely not.
You may see a lot of scopes 4sale on the classifieds and seldom any Alpha6s that must really tell you something. If you do see an A6 4sale on the classifieds it's gone by the time you blink.
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I just cut and pasted this from a similar thread. Odoyle let us know about this one.
The Crimson Trace 5-25 at midway for 499.00 has got to be THE best scope for 500 or less. It is made in Japan and has a 34mm tube. It is heavy but if you can live with that it is amazing. It is FFP which is not my favorite but I keep it at 25x almost always anyway.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619370?pid=223277
The Crimson Trace 5-25 at midway for 499.00 has got to be THE best scope for 500 or less. It is made in Japan and has a 34mm tube. It is heavy but if you can live with that it is amazing. It is FFP which is not my favorite but I keep it at 25x almost always anyway.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020619370?pid=223277
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https://www.aimsportsinc.com/alpha-6/
Buy them for roughly half off from extreemtactical since this brand isn't bound by MAP pricing like other popular overpriced (for what you get) brands are. Sign up via email first.
Dont pay full price. I have no financial interest in anything I push here on this forum so may as well save money. Otherwise I would be pushing everything at full retail price. I do not receive any free scopes from any company to review either. In fact I paid more for my Alpha6 scopes than the prices you guys pay for right now.
It's the same company that sells the DAR Gen2 with the wood stock.
Seems like a company that really cares about their customers.
Buy them for roughly half off from extreemtactical since this brand isn't bound by MAP pricing like other popular overpriced (for what you get) brands are. Sign up via email first.
Dont pay full price. I have no financial interest in anything I push here on this forum so may as well save money. Otherwise I would be pushing everything at full retail price. I do not receive any free scopes from any company to review either. In fact I paid more for my Alpha6 scopes than the prices you guys pay for right now.
It's the same company that sells the DAR Gen2 with the wood stock.
Seems like a company that really cares about their customers.
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The Crimson Trace are hard to beat for under $2000.
Only the Tract Toric is noticeably better in roughly the $1300-$1700 price point but you only pay under $500 for the Crimson Trace on sale less than half price.
Some people are content on spending $500 for a scope that RETAILS for $500.
Me on the other hand like to pay at least half off of retail. BUT!!! That's just me so I can compare my $1199 scope I paid $500 for to YOUR $500 scope that you paid $500 for.
THE A6 4.5-27x50 is roughly a $400 (retail) scope you pay $200 for. If they sold it for $599 I don't think people would complain.
I personally hate paying way way way more $$$ for things than what they are actually worth and don't like getting ripped off as a paying customer that's all.
Only the Tract Toric is noticeably better in roughly the $1300-$1700 price point but you only pay under $500 for the Crimson Trace on sale less than half price.
Some people are content on spending $500 for a scope that RETAILS for $500.
Me on the other hand like to pay at least half off of retail. BUT!!! That's just me so I can compare my $1199 scope I paid $500 for to YOUR $500 scope that you paid $500 for.
THE A6 4.5-27x50 is roughly a $400 (retail) scope you pay $200 for. If they sold it for $599 I don't think people would complain.
I personally hate paying way way way more $$$ for things than what they are actually worth and don't like getting ripped off as a paying customer that's all.
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I strongly agree with that. I hate paying retail. That's why I bought the GEN 2 Argos from Amazon in "like new" condition for $335, rather than the $399 that everyone else sells them for. Not half price, but I looked all over and could not find it cheaper anywhere. It does appear to be in new condition. All original packaging, wrapping, etc. The battery for the illuminated reticle was still sealed in it's bag so I know it had never been put in the scope. I think it probably is a new scope but somehow could not be sold as such.
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The Argos is actually decent if it's NOT the early production Gen1s that aren't clear past 17x - 18x.
The recent discontinued Gen1s still being sold for $260 average is better.
The Gen2 has a slight step up in glass (or at least improved coatings) and turrets. The zero stop is functional too.
It's like pretty much tied with the Vortex Diamondback Tactcal.
Athlon has better chance of warranty swap out and not getting second or third bum scope replacement as Vortex or Optisan or xxx or xxx or xxx or xxx or xxx (never mind that's another subject).
It's still not as clear nor bright as the A6 though. Not even the Midas TAC is as clear and BRIGHT.
I'm on a mission to find a nicer scope than the A6 in its price point (or at least for double its price) and can't seem to find anything. Close but no cigar the Discovery HD 4-20x50 but it's still at least a step down or more like two in glass.
The recent discontinued Gen1s still being sold for $260 average is better.
The Gen2 has a slight step up in glass (or at least improved coatings) and turrets. The zero stop is functional too.
It's like pretty much tied with the Vortex Diamondback Tactcal.
Athlon has better chance of warranty swap out and not getting second or third bum scope replacement as Vortex or Optisan or xxx or xxx or xxx or xxx or xxx (never mind that's another subject).
It's still not as clear nor bright as the A6 though. Not even the Midas TAC is as clear and BRIGHT.
I'm on a mission to find a nicer scope than the A6 in its price point (or at least for double its price) and can't seem to find anything. Close but no cigar the Discovery HD 4-20x50 but it's still at least a step down or more like two in glass.
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I would look at the Crimson Trace already mentioned if you don’t mind a larger scope. It’s $499.49 and your going to have to pay triple that to get as good or better. I got mine in last week and really like it.
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Odoyle, 
you made another convert.
More power to you. Thanks for all your great advice and deals.
Matthias
you made another convert.
More power to you. Thanks for all your great advice and deals.
Matthias
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