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Need to learn about PCP before first purchase - Gauntlet

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W

WN0912

Member
Dec 7, 2020
66
4
Ohio, United States
Quick back story.

I’ve posted on the break barrel forum with many responses. I bought a Gamo Fusion 22 Gen2 and after a month of trial and error, I returned it for a refund. After 40 years of shooting firearms (no air guns), I just could not achieve an acceptable accuracy with this rifle. I hesitated purchasing a PCP. Because of the additional equipment needed to use it... hand pump/ air bottle/ compressor, etc.

So here we go. I’m back at ground zero. My goal is to have an air gun to target shoot in my back yard which is big enough for a 50 yard range, but not big enough to shoot firearms - I live in a rural suburb area in Ohio.

After many YouTube reviews on many different rifles, I’m settling on the Umarex Gauntlet for a few reasons - feel free to change my mind. It seems to have good accuracy at 50 yards. I do not have to ‘learn how to hold and shoot’, after shooting for 40 years. And most important, I don’t want to spend a lot - the $300 price point seems like the sweet spot for me.

I had considered the Gamo Urban for the same price, but the cylinder size is less than the Gauntlet, and the Gauntlet is regulated air. Also, I like the look of the Gauntlet. Here’s my questions:

  • I can’t decide between 22 and 25 caliber
  • The option of buying a 4,500 psi refill bottle seems like the best for me. I’m in good shape but from the YouTube’s, hand pumping this rifle with the larger on board air container seems like more effort than I’d want to do. Everyone that hand pumps this gun seems quite winded.
  • I’d really like some opinions on which refilling option is the most reasonable.
  • If I buy an air bottle, I don’t know what I actually need to buy, or where to buy it. I see some Ninja bottles on Amazon for under $200 but I think I need to buy other things to make it work. I do have a local ‘air shop’ that will fill a bottle for $4.
  •  And most important, will I be happy with the groupings that are possible with this rifle? I realized after buying the Fusion Gen 2 that many of the YouTube vids are made by really, really good shooters that have lots of experience shooting. So naturally, their groupings are much better than what I could achieve. What I’m looking for is a rifle that a ‘normal’ shooter can expect.

Look, my son and I are avid firearm shooters and we will still go to our local gun club to shoot AR-15’s, 9mm handguns, etc., but what we’re looking for is to have a little fun in the backyard without disturbing neighbors while we fire up the smoker for a weekend cookout. That sort of thing. Seems like a PCP rifle meets that requirement, I just have too many questions to make the purchase yet.

Thanks, looking forward to your responses. Don’t worry about hurting my feelings, I can take it. :)
 
For you described backyard situation I would stick with a .22 caliber. And think in terms of the terminal ballistics of what you’re sending down range. As for the Gauntlet? Since it’s introduction others at a similar price point have come along. You will get more answers shortly. Most good PCPs will wow you with their 50 yard accuracy. Good times for you ahead.😀
 
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Well here is my 2. cents for what it is worth



  • I can’t decide between 22 and 25 caliber - If you are just target shooting then I would go with the .22, ammo is currently more readily available for the .22 and if you decide to go hunting it will be plenty for any small game. 
  • The option of buying a 4,500 psi refill bottle seems like the best for me. I’m in good shape but from the YouTube’s, hand pumping this rifle with the larger on board air container seems like more effort than I’d want to do. Everyone that hand pumps this gun seems quite winded. - I would say the tanks is a good way to go, I see you have a local shop that can fill it? A compressor capable of filling the gun may be another alternative especially if you are just shooting at home. Tank money goes towards compressor and skip the tank. 
  • I’d really like some opinions on which refilling option is the most reasonable. see above​​​​​​



  • If I buy an air bottle, I don’t know what I actually need to buy, or where to buy it. I see some Ninja bottles on Amazon for under $200 but I think I need to buy other things to make it work. I do have a local ‘air shop’ that will fill a bottle for $4. This is one of many online places. Depending on where you buy your rifle you most likely can get a tank from them. Check prices I’m sure someone will follow up with a link for both tanks and compressors. http://www.airtanksforsale.com/



  •  And most important, will I be happy with the groupings that are possible with this rifle? I realized after buying the Fusion Gen 2 that many of the YouTube vids are made by really, really good shooters that have lots of experience shooting. So naturally, their groupings are much better than what I could achieve. What I’m looking for is a rifle that a ‘normal’ shooter can expect. I think you will find a PCP shoots much like your powder burners so once you find the right pellet your accuracy should be similar. 
 
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 I have a heavily modified tack driving Gauntlet, but if I lost it, I would NOT replace it. I would get the new gen 2, Dynamic Air Rifle, DAR. Check them out. Definitely, for your use, don't go bigger than .22. If you want to keep things simple you could just get the Origin. Yes you would have to pump but it really cuts down on the initial gear you have to buy. All of the price point pcp's (PPP) are really accurate these days.

edit: clarified
 
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There are many options for a budget pcp. Like people said above I would go with 22 for price and availability of ammo. You can find a yong heng compressor that will pump up to 4500psi for around $250-$300 and not have to deal with the bottle and getting it filled every so often. As for the actual rifle, I would go with an avenger, nova liberty, benjamin fortitude2 or maximus, hatsan flash, DAR, or gauntlet. I have a gauntlet and while it is a good rifle there are so many quirks to it that kind of turn me off. Super janky bolt that can be improved with some polishing, pretty heavy, and poi changes on the flimsy barrel that can be worked around. It is more of a tinkering rifle. It took another few hundred bucks and hours of messing around to get it to where it is acceptable to me. The avenger on the other hand has been great right out of the box. I would like to try a DAR though too
 
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"...I hesitated purchasing a PCP. Because of the additional equipment needed to use it... hand pump/ air bottle/ compressor, etc..."
Click to expand...

And that is the rub isn't it?

I currently own three PCP's, and yes, I have the whole gambit of support equipment to go along with them. But I'm gonna break from the crowd here given your 50 yard target shooting preference and suggest you just stay with a springer, except go out and buy a decent one - the Air Arms TC200. It is the only springer I own.

IMO (my opinion here guys, so don't lambaste me over it 😁), the problem with your Gamo (and most break barrel springers for that matter when using a scope) is that the scope is mounted on the chassis and not the barrel, which unfortunately has a minute amount of play at its hinge point. All it takes is .0002" of this play to throw a grouping off at 50 yards. This is super obvious on the cheaper break barrel models, and why if you own one, a person should just use open or aperture sights if they're both mounted on the barrel.

Do some research on the TC200. You'll find that is one of the most accurate springers out there.




 
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"...I hesitated purchasing a PCP. Because of the additional equipment needed to use it... hand pump/ air bottle/ compressor, etc..."
Click to expand...

And that is the rub isn't it?

I currently own three PCP's, and yes, I have the whole gambit of support equipment to go along with them. But I'm gonna break from the crowd here given your 50 yard target shooting preference and suggest you just stay with a springer, except go out and buy a decent one - the Air Arms TC200. It is the only springer I own.

IMO (my opinion here guys, so don't lambaste me over it 
1f601.svg
), the problem with your Gamo (and most break barrel springers for that matter when using a scope) is that the scope is mounted on the chassis and not the barrel, which unfortunately has a minute amount of play at its hinge point. All it takes is .0002" of this play to throw a grouping off at 50 yards. This is super obvious on the cheaper break barrel models, and why if you own one, a person should just use open or aperture sights if they're both mounted on the barrel.

Do some research on the TC200. You'll find that is one of the most accurate springers out there.

Click to expand...

Don't you mean the Air Arms TX200, not TC200?
 
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When Jester recommended staying with a springer, I understood what he was talking about. I have 3 springers and 2 PCP guns (and I have all the "stuff" needed to deal with my PCP guns). It sure is nice to just grab one of my springers and go shoot and not have to monitor air pressure inside the gun - and later use my scuba tank to recharge the gun - and later use my 4500 compressor to refill the scuba tank. For example, today I shot my Diana 48 60-70 times - testing pellets in a pellet sampler pack. If I did that with one of my PCP's, I'd soon be having to recharge it. Ha, when I first started with a PCP, I used a hand pump to air it up - what a joke! It didn't take me long to contact Joe Brancato and have him set me up with a 4500 compressor, 66 Cu Ft air tank and a regulator to go between the tank and the gun. Having a PCP can be expensive.

I also understood what Jester was talking about when he was speaking of break barrel air guns not being real accurate due to the barrel being separate from the part where the scope is mounted. That's why none of my springers are break-barrel. They have continuous, one-piece barrels with their cocking levers either under the barrel (like my Air Arms TX200 and Diana 460 Magnum) or beside the barrel (like my Diana 48).

Granted, non of my springers will ever replace my FX Royale 400. It's a PCP gun that is one-hole accurate and shoots 21.3 gr pellets at an average of 834.5 fps, That combination produces 33.82 fpe.
 
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Well here is my 2. cents for what it is worth



  • I can’t decide between 22 and 25 caliber - If you are just target shooting then I would go with the .22, ammo is currently more readily available for the .22 and if you decide to go hunting it will be plenty for any small game. 
  • The option of buying a 4,500 psi refill bottle seems like the best for me. I’m in good shape but from the YouTube’s, hand pumping this rifle with the larger on board air container seems like more effort than I’d want to do. Everyone that hand pumps this gun seems quite winded. - I would say the tanks is a good way to go, I see you have a local shop that can fill it? A compressor capable of filling the gun may be another alternative especially if you are just shooting at home. Tank money goes towards compressor and skip the tank. 
  • I’d really like some opinions on which refilling option is the most reasonable. see above​​​​​​



  • If I buy an air bottle, I don’t know what I actually need to buy, or where to buy it. I see some Ninja bottles on Amazon for under $200 but I think I need to buy other things to make it work. I do have a local ‘air shop’ that will fill a bottle for $4. This is one of many online places. Depending on where you buy your rifle you most likely can get a tank from them. Check prices I’m sure someone will follow up with a link for both tanks and compressors. http://www.airtanksforsale.com/



  •  And most important, will I be happy with the groupings that are possible with this rifle? I realized after buying the Fusion Gen 2 that many of the YouTube vids are made by really, really good shooters that have lots of experience shooting. So naturally, their groupings are much better than what I could achieve. What I’m looking for is a rifle that a ‘normal’ shooter can expect. I think you will find a PCP shoots much like your powder burners so once you find the right pellet your accuracy should be similar. 
Click to expand...

Your fourth point linking to www.airtanksforsale.com is the one owned by Joe Brancato. He is very knowledgable and was the one who set me up with my PCP equipment. If you call him, he'll take the time to help.
 
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Get the $145.00 Maximus of you want to EASILY PUMP to its measly 2000psi max fill pressure using the $50 Wal-Mart hand pump and such a no brainer for the Maximus with 5 Year Warranty and ease of pumping it.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2083201846

Or the $214.68 before discounts Gamo Urban second affordable that's multishot and more hand pump friendly than pumping up such a HEAVY bulky Gauntlet.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/cross-post-for-gamo-urban-214-68-and-benjamin-cayden-431-59/
 
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I also have a heavily modified Gauntlet but if I had to start over I wouldn't pick the Gauntlet unless you're willing to do some extensive mods to bring it up to standard. The internal machining is very ruff. Mine felt like the action had a handful of sand in it. It's also a long heavy gun more suited to tall guys. I recommend you buy the Benjamin that Odoyle suggested from Midway and a Yong Heng 110v compressor. I think you'd be much happier.


 
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Thanks for the good information! I did some research / Youtube watching this weekend and here's my next round of questions.

I see a really good price for the Benjamin Maximus at Midwayusa. I understand that it's an entry level pcp at a great price right now, but what I don't understand is the psi rating. This rifle tops out at 2,000 psi and lists an fps above 900. The other rifle I really like is the Avenger which also lists above 900fps for 22 cal, but this rifle can take 4,300psi.

I'm totally confused. Please help me understand how both of these rifles achieve relatively the same fps and yet one is so much higher in psi. I'm guessing that the rifle holding tank/bottle is not the same psi as the 'charge' psi that shoots the pellet.

So that's my first question.

Next, I'm pretty sure there's no comparison between the Avenger and the Maximus, except for price. The Maximus is currently half the price of the Avenger. Other than that, the reviews on the Avenger, and the specs/options of it seem to make it an easy decision if I decide to spend $300. Actually, I was going to spend $300 anyway on the Gauntlet, but thanks to your comments and suggestions, I think my opinion has been swayed away from the Gauntlet and over to the Avenger.

What's the bottom line thoughts between the Avenger and the Maximus?

After that decision, I need to start thinking about how to fill it. And here we go again. If I got the Maximus at 2,000psi, I've seen a Youtube where a guy from 'Air Gun Depot' hand pump filled the Maximus in 90 seconds. I've also seen enough vids to know that there's no way I'm hand pumping a 3,000 + psi rifle.

Thanks again. If it seems like I'm off the deep end on getting tons of info before making the purchase, that's just the way I research things. Plus, I've already made the mistake of buying the Gamo Fusion Gen2 and sent it back. I don't want to make another mistake.
 
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WNO912- if I may add to the list of great advice given by top folks on here(what I’m saying is, you’re in good hands), is the Maximus will easily be hand pumped, an Avenger no way. I recently picked up a near new Avenger in the classifieds to gift to a good friend. That gun is an awesome gun for what you get. The accuracy is there, has the bells and whistles that top tier guns have like side cocking, regulated, etc. But it is an air eating machine. My 45 minute SCBA tank will top that gun off maybe 3 times max, if my friend and I let it go down to 200 BAR/3000psi. What I’m saying is that you’ll need a really big tank and depending on useage you could be running to the dive shop like twice a week for top offs, if not more. 

If you want simple, low dollar investment while still enjoying the pcp experience, go with the Maximus and a hand pump from Amazon (approx $60 to $100 for a decent one). Target shooting in the back yard while grilling on a Sunday afternoon, this gun will provide endless fun. 

If your initial post would’ve mentioned hunting out in the woods, then I would go straight to the avenger. If a combination of both backyard target and hunting, get it in 22 cal, set the reg for like 130 BAR, and do less turns on the hammer spring for the back yard target shooting, and max turns for the hunting trips.

if you live in the immediate suburbs, a low power 22 caliber is plenty for what you need. A 25 cal is way too much for suburban back yard shooting, especially if your back yard is the typical suburban back yards that are being offered today, which is small.

lastly, you’re going to have to bust out your calculator and crunch the numbers to see what’s best for you and your budget. 

Avenger-$300, large capacity tank- $800 to $1000 plus $4 a week in a top off. For a Smaller capacity tank- $400 to $600 plus $8 to $12 a week in tank top offs.

Maximus- $150, Hand pump- $60 to $100(these are considered low budget pumps, btw. A quality hand pump is closer to $300)



of course, not included are the scope, rings, pellets, moderator, and a chronograph to see how your gun is actually performing.



Good luck
 
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The Maximus/Discovery is a good choice. You will find with pcps that they are "tuned" to work within a given pressure range. If you overfill you will usually get less velocity, not more, and you could put the gun into valve lock. That means there is a point that the hammer spring will not open the valve to fire the gun. The other benefit of the 2k fill on the Benjamin is you won't need a 4.500psi tank. You can get 3,000 psi aluminum tanks for about $200. (another $100 for the fill hose assembly) One of those will fill a Discovery to 2k about 70 times before needing topped off. Before you commit the a 4500 psi bottle, make sure you can actually get it fill to 4500. My dive shop can only go to 3,000. He is a nice guy and doesn't charge me every time I bring the bottle in because I usually only need it topped off. The paintball shop can fill to 4,500, but won't do it while I wait, and I never know how much they are going to charge me.
 
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I like my Gauntlet .22, after breaking in the hammer spring, it got easier to cock and it is bone stock, no mods other than a picatinny rail for a bipod, I adjusted the trigger and now it shoots really good, it loves crosman hollow points and domes, getting 1/2" groups at 50 yards, and it's quiet, I get about 70 plus shots from a fill from 3000 to 1100 psi, I use both a SCBA bottle or my GS CS2 4500 PSI Mini Compressor 12/110v, screw the Hand Pump, I have a bad Back and shoulders, so that would be torcher to me, I have a cheap Discovery Scope on it 4-16x42 and it works fine.
 
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