Need a Quiet PCP with Iron Sights

[jleftwi]

Hey there, I'm brand new to the PCP game. I need some help figuring out what kind of rig to get. Here are my requirements:

1) Budget is $300-$500
2) It needs iron sights so I can train my boys on how to properly handle firearms
3) It's got to be really quiet. 
4) I need to still have room in the budget for a hand pump. There are some good combo packages out there that make this do-able. 
5) I will not purchase an additional moderator...it needs to come that way from the factory.
6) .22 caliber only. 
7) Will be used for target practice out to 50 yards and squirrel/chipmunk control out to around 35 yards.
8) Must be bolt action or side level cocking (remember, this is also a training rifle as we're building up to bolt guns)

Here's what I've researched so far:

-Diana Stormrider looks promising with some work (barrel band, regulator), but I'm worried it won't be quiet enough. 
-Benjamin Fortitude definitely meets the sound requirements, but has no irons. 
-ATI Nova Vista Nova Liberty looks really promising with the irons and shroud, but I've heard mixed reports on how loud it is, plus it seems to have a really narrow offering of customer support and replacement parts. Don't know if a hand pump will service such a gun either. 
-Beeman Chief/Beeman Commander...both have irons but don't think they're quiet enough. 
-Hatsan AT44S-10 QE looks promising with a reviews saying it's quiet, plus there's a variations with irons, but it's at the extreme upper limit of my budget since I have no pump yet. 
-I'm open to other suggestions! 

Any help you could give would be great! Again, it really needs to be quiet (as in Benjamin Marauder/Fortitude quiet) and it really must have iron sights. If it weren't for the iron sights this would be easy! 

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Stormrider is actually pretty darn quiet. Re-arranging the baffles in the moderator helps. But the last one I got, I could not disassemble the moderator. I even tried using a vice. Angle grinder got it open (I had a spare). Front face of the muzzle needs to be leveled to moderator is not crooked.



If you get a regulator, you can dial down pressure, and even cut a coil or two off the hammer spring to bring noise down. (most shooting I do is at 650 fps in 22 cal. ) This gun shoots around 850 

 

[bandg]

I have a .177 Stormrider and like it. No experience with the other guns mentioned but you'll never be able to get an exact answer to your "quiet" question without trying a gun yourself because one person's quiet isn't quiet enough for another. I do have a different Hatsan model (no iron sights) than you asked about with the QE system and it is extremely quiet. Try some locally if possible for that.

 

[jleftwi]

Is your experience with a Generation 1 or Generation 2 Stormrider? 

And BandG, you're right, it's pretty subjective. Right now I'm using a break-barrel Ruger Blackhawk and it is stupid loud. Pretty sure it's breaking the sound barrier. Have to shoot from indoors and a yard back from the window. Pretty sure I'm pissing off the neighbors. Want something that neighbors within 20 yards might hear but would probably mistake it for the kids playing. 

 

[Fatmike]

I really like my liberty for backyard shooting. I turn the power adjuster to low and it's great for my city lot. Turn it to high when out where noise isnt an issue. It's not loud enough to be an issue at either setting in my opinion. I dont fill mine up to the maximum fill pressure and I still get good results. I usually fill to about 3200 psi. Mine is a wood stock. Its decent looking. The plastic version might be lighter and work better for your son. Have you considered the fortitude. It's on sale at sportsman's guide for under 250$. Would be a great beginner's gun. Very pump friendly. Up to 80 shots per fill. And regulated. No iron sights though. Sorry

 

[bandg]

I have both a Gen 1 and a Gen 2 Stormrider. The Gen 2 was somewhat improved and is worth it IMO, but I've made the Gen 1 similar with some work. As to your break barrel, buy some heavier pellets to slow it down and it may be noticeably quieter.

 

[jleftwi]

Fatmike, does the Liberty actually have baffles in the shroud, or is it just a hollow tube there on the end? The Fortitude is real tempting because I know it would definitely be quiet enough. 

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Is your experience with a Generation 1 or Generation 2 Stormrider? 

And BandG, you're right, it's pretty subjective. Right now I'm using a break-barrel Ruger Blackhawk and it is stupid loud. Pretty sure it's breaking the sound barrier. Have to shoot from indoors and a yard back from the window. Pretty sure I'm pissing off the neighbors. Want something that neighbors within 20 yards might hear but would probably mistake it for the kids playing.

Gen 2.



If that is the case, you might want to get a .177 and detune it. The projectile impact of the 22 is significantly louder than the report, and significantly more than the .177 impact 

 

[jleftwi]

Is your experience with a Generation 1 or Generation 2 Stormrider? 

And BandG, you're right, it's pretty subjective. Right now I'm using a break-barrel Ruger Blackhawk and it is stupid loud. Pretty sure it's breaking the sound barrier. Have to shoot from indoors and a yard back from the window. Pretty sure I'm pissing off the neighbors. Want something that neighbors within 20 yards might hear but would probably mistake it for the kids playing.

Gen 2.



If that is the case, you might want to get a .177 and detune it. The projectile impact of the 22 is significantly louder than the report, and significantly more than the .177 impact

Dallas, help me out with the term "detune." Sorry, pretty new to the game. 

 

[bandg]

There is a regulator available from PyramydAir for the Stormrider that would allow you to adjust power output that way. I have one in the Gen 2 and it has worked well. The advice on .177 is good also-a bit less "intrusive" than a .22 in several ways but I'm sure sure how they would compare side by side. I'm a .177 shooter primarily but also have a few .22's as well. My quietest gun is a .22 Hatsan Gladius.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Is your experience with a Generation 1 or Generation 2 Stormrider? 

And BandG, you're right, it's pretty subjective. Right now I'm using a break-barrel Ruger Blackhawk and it is stupid loud. Pretty sure it's breaking the sound barrier. Have to shoot from indoors and a yard back from the window. Pretty sure I'm pissing off the neighbors. Want something that neighbors within 20 yards might hear but would probably mistake it for the kids playing.

Gen 2.



If that is the case, you might want to get a .177 and detune it. The projectile impact of the 22 is significantly louder than the report, and significantly more than the .177 impact

Dallas, help me out with the term "detune." Sorry, pretty new to the game.

Ideally you'd use a regulator to reduce the operating pressure (which equates to less power, typically) and reduce the hammer spring tension by cutting or using a softer spring. There's other ways to detune. I just mean reduce the power. If the kids are just shooting targets, 650 FPS is PLENTY still enough to drop grey squirrels with 177 even 

I have the pistol version of the stormrider, and it was shooting 177 at 850fps. It is detuned to 650fps now using a regulator and weaker hammer spring. It is worlds quieter

 

[jleftwi]

Is your experience with a Generation 1 or Generation 2 Stormrider? 

And BandG, you're right, it's pretty subjective. Right now I'm using a break-barrel Ruger Blackhawk and it is stupid loud. Pretty sure it's breaking the sound barrier. Have to shoot from indoors and a yard back from the window. Pretty sure I'm pissing off the neighbors. Want something that neighbors within 20 yards might hear but would probably mistake it for the kids playing.

Gen 2.



If that is the case, you might want to get a .177 and detune it. The projectile impact of the 22 is significantly louder than the report, and significantly more than the .177 impact

Dallas, help me out with the term "detune." Sorry, pretty new to the game.

Ideally you'd use a regulator to reduce the operating pressure (which equates to less power, typically) and reduce the hammer spring tension by cutting or using a softer spring. There's other ways to detune. I just mean reduce the power. If the kids are just shooting targets, 650 FPS is PLENTY still enough to drop grey squirrels with 177 even 

I have the pistol version of the stormrider, and it was shooting 177 at 850fps. It is detuned to 650fps now using a regulator and weaker hammer spring. It is worlds quieter

Dallas, thanks for the info! Sounds like a Stormrider will be what we go with for an entry-level purchase. I imagine that if my boy masters irons we'll eventually move up to a Benjamine Fortitude. Looks like a solid rig. 

If I cut springs on the Diana, are there replacement springs out there to be had?

 

[fivestar45]

Why not just add iron sights to a Fortitude? You would have no problem finding a Williams adjustable for the rear, and you could probably use a front sight for a 12ga. These guns are reasonably priced ($249.00) @ sportsmans Guide) and they are already reg'd & shrouded. And being from Crosman they have the best customer support, and parts availability in the industry.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

The springs are available thru bagnall and kirkwood. Or the retailer you get the gun from. 

Best method of approach by far is to orger the gun with a regulator installed (check airgunarcheryfun.ca $50 option I think) I'm sure Wes would not mind setting the regulator at a low setting so you get a lot of shots per fill. Even at low pressure this gun should be moving 177 pretty quickly still... Then cut 1 or 2 coils off the hammer spring and see how it does.



Just remember to level the front face of the muzzle. The moderator levels out on the front sight post barrel cap. It's just a solid plastic piece that slips on the end of the barrel with a flat(ish) front face. All 3 I've had were not entirely flat, so moderator will sit a little crooked. Enough to affect accuracy. All you need is a flat file. Emty the gun of air/ammo, and check alignment with the bore to get it level/straight.

 

[jleftwi]

Why not just add iron sights to a Fortitude? You would have no problem finding a Williams adjustable for the rear, and you could probably use a front sight for a 12ga. These guns are reasonably priced ($249.00) @ sportsmans Guide) and they are already reg'd & shrouded. And being from Crosman they have the best customer support, and parts availability in the industry.

Fivestar, I'd be interested in adding a front sight if I could find someone who's done it successfully. 

 

[jleftwi]

The springs are available thru bagnall and kirkwood. Or the retailer you get the gun from. 

Best method of approach by far is to orger the gun with a regulator installed (check airgunarcheryfun.ca $50 option I think) I'm sure Wes would not mind setting the regulator at a low setting so you get a lot of shots per fill. Even at low pressure this gun should be moving 177 pretty quickly still... Then cut 1 or 2 coils off the hammer spring and see how it does.



Just remember to level the front face of the muzzle. The moderator levels out on the front sight post barrel cap. It's just a solid plastic piece that slips on the end of the barrel with a flat(ish) front face. All 3 I've had were not entirely flat, so moderator will sit a little crooked. Enough to affect accuracy. All you need is a flat file. Emty the gun of air/ammo, and check alignment with the bore to get it level/straight.

Dallas, you know of anyone who has posted photos of this process?

 

[westgl33]

The Fortitude is Adjustable with a Allen wrench through the back of the Breech area, via the Hammer spring adjustment screw. You can Detune the Fortitude Gen.2 this way reducing shot FPS speed and reducing report volume. Changing Pellet weight is another way to reduce the Report Volume, heavier pellet is usually quieter. I have Been playing around with My Fortitude, I put on a Williams FP AG TK #14170 Rear Peep sight it comes with 1 aperture. I have the rear Sight, but I put it on a Diana 460, to play with, before moving it to the Fortitude. I was thinking of get a Second Barrel band ( I would add a couple Grub screws to the Bband to get it locked down better), from Crosman, and sliding it as far forward as possible on the Air Tube, The Height of the Front sight may need to be higher than the top of the Barrel band as the sight needs to see over the top of the Magazine, I haven't spent any time looking at that yet. The Stock Fortitude Gen2 in 22cal. out of the box is Pretty Darn Quiet. Parts availability is Important to me, what good is a Gun if you have to throw it in the trash cause you cannot get parts to keep it going. Also a 5 Year Warranty is Much Longer than 90% of the rest of the Manufactures. 

 

[Raden1942]

Benjamin maximus with tko moderater or qb chief with moderater would be far superior to the storm rider imo. I believe the maximus and the chief are way more accurate right out of the box. Many many videos showing stormrider lacking in accuracy are out there. I do believe you can make it very accurate with some tuning. I happen to know the chief is accurate right out of the box. I believe another 100 bucks gets you a tko and adapter for the gun. Get the bigger one and it's really quiet. Plus only 2000 psi to pump up! Bigger deal than you think. Goodluck. 

 

[jleftwi]

Benjamin maximus with tko moderater or qb chief with moderater would be far superior to the storm rider imo. I believe the maximus and the chief are way more accurate right out of the box. Many many videos showing stormrider lacking in accuracy are out there. I do believe you can make it very accurate with some tuning. I happen to know the chief is accurate right out of the box. I believe another 100 bucks gets you a tko and adapter for the gun. Get the bigger one and it's really quiet. Plus only 2000 psi to pump up! Bigger deal than you think. Goodluck.

I'm not a big fan of moderators or LDCs or whatever folks call them. Seems like it's asking for trouble. Otherwise I love the Maximus rig! Will need to do some reading on moderators. Seems legally fishy to me. 

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

The springs are available thru bagnall and kirkwood. Or the retailer you get the gun from. 

Best method of approach by far is to orger the gun with a regulator installed (check airgunarcheryfun.ca $50 option I think) I'm sure Wes would not mind setting the regulator at a low setting so you get a lot of shots per fill. Even at low pressure this gun should be moving 177 pretty quickly still... Then cut 1 or 2 coils off the hammer spring and see how it does.



Just remember to level the front face of the muzzle. The moderator levels out on the front sight post barrel cap. It's just a solid plastic piece that slips on the end of the barrel with a flat(ish) front face. All 3 I've had were not entirely flat, so moderator will sit a little crooked. Enough to affect accuracy. All you need is a flat file. Emty the gun of air/ammo, and check alignment with the bore to get it level/straight.

Dallas, you know of anyone who has posted photos of this process?

There's really nothing to it. Just look where the moderator butts up against the sight post, you want it to sit square. I could send pics, but there's really nothing to it. Besides using a file to make the surface flat (it's already %97 flat) , just small molding marks there