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NAT 50 BR results with RW Safari .22 HP

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tommyb

tommyb

Member
Feb 20, 2018
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North Carolina, United States
Mike N. - Q. Is there a BR Category where we can regularly post 'practice' cards? I didn't see any, so I created this one today.

Went to the local outdoor range today, weather almost perfect. Wind was variable 3-5 mph and often 1-2 mph. Didn't bring my flags today ( forgot ), but I did shoot two cards with the Safari .22 HP. I finally did chrono ( FX Radar) my JSB KO's at around 946 average FPS. For me, I think this is the optimum velocity at 50 yards ( not sure about 100 yards ) for shooting these NAT 50 cards. I did use the .22 cal scoring plugs for any close targets. Also used SST vs. new style DS magazine. I did miss some wind calls, but the KO's were also pretty forgiving, esp. without the flags. The flags definitely do help me and I just forgot to bring them.

RW, KO's

Shot count: 10

Low: 942

Hi: 951

Avg: 946

Spread: 9

STD Dev: 3.4

944

947

947

951

944

944

951

949

942

942



IMG_2953.1617651844.jpg
IMG_2954.1617651844.jpg



 
Hi Mark

re Chrono - I started at 242 BAR on the RW LCD. I filled to 250, but it normally looses 6-8 FPS before it holds steady at my maximum fill.

Right after I Chrono’d the KO’s, I did the same with the JSB .22 25G Redesigns with a 10 shot string. I saved it on my iPhone, but as I recall the ES was around 7, with a 970 FPS average. I’ll update later today.with that shot string.

MRDs

Shot count: 10

Low: 965

Hi: 972

Avg: 969

Spread: 7

STD Dev: 2.4

970

970

967

970

970

967

965

965

972

970

I have not chrono’d an entire shot string, but will do next time I am at the range. I too would be curious if it can hold a low ES value throughout the entire shot string, before low pressure warning.

Tom 
 
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Looks good, Tommy.

Sure looks like a lot of those would plug a ring higher, though. 

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

I have my magnifier on back order ( same one you have ). They (Adorma) have been out of stock for a while. Not sure what I may be doing incorrectly, as I have read your scoring rules many times and I feel like I am using the appropriate size scoring plug correctly. I also use your scoring diagram as a guide. 

I wonder if the pics that I post on the AGN forum, are misrepresenting what I can see as I score the cards? i.e., Are the pics I am posting adequately showing what I am seeing directly, as I use the scoring plugs? I understand the close call rules, and if I see any 'white' when it's close to the ring, it defaults to the lower ring value. Also, with slugs, it just has to 'touch' the X to be counted. Pellets, has to cover entire dot to be counted. Given all of that, I felt I did score correctly, but I am obviously missing the correct approach. 

I may mail you my two cards and have you see in person, and re-score them so I can understand what I am doing wrong. I obviously am not doing it correctly, so if I see how you re-score some of my bulls, it will become obvious.

Tom
 
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You’re welcome to do that. It’s possible that I’m not seeing it correctly. Your KO slugs make a small hole compared to the .224 plug, so when I see a shot that is almost touching a ring....I figure it’s going to make it with the plug. Maybe the pics are playing with the perception.

If you get time, put the plug in box 2 on your first card and take a very close up pic down the edge of the plug. That one sure looks like a 10 to me from here.

Mike 


 
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"If you get time, put the plug in box 2 on your first card and take a very close up pic down the edge of the plug. That one sure looks like a 10 to me from here."

==================================================================================================================================

OK, I may have misunderstood 'HOW' to use the scoring plug correctly. And if I am correct, this would explain the lower than actual scoring in the last several weeks. Let me explain my confusion.

When I score a close bull, I insert the shank into the hole and take it out to look at the hole to see if it is touching the ring or not. I had presumed that when using the scoring plug, you are supposed to take the scoring plug out of the hole once you know you have inserted only as far as the .224" diameter shank, and no further. Then, you zoom in with magnifier or iPhone camera to see if the hole is touching a ring or not. 

Are you saying that to score it correctly, I need to "leave the scoring plug "IN THE HOLE" to score it correctly while I see if it is touching or not?  I can see where when I leave the scoring plug in the hole, it always appears to be touching the 10 ring in my three examples below.

Mike, I took pics of three different bulls on my first card just to illustrate the above.

IMG_2969.1617822224.jpg
IMG_2970.1617822224.jpg




Here is box # 13

IMG_2971.1617822487.jpg
IMG_2973.1617822488.jpg




Box # 24



IMG_2974.1617822563.jpg
IMG_2975.1617822563.jpg

 
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If you've never seen it done, I can see how you thought what you did. Leaving it in is the correct procedure, so all three of your examples would be tens not nines. Now you know, and your scores just improved!!!

Mike B

Damn, posted at the same time (well, two minutes behind) Mike N.
Click to expand...



You made my day,

Thanks Mike N and Mike B!


Tom
 
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Had the RAW HM1000x HP .22 out yesterday trying her at 50 and 100 yards. So, I used the scoring plug for pellets and what a "noticeable" difference it makes in the scoring. Almost feels like cheating when I leave the shank in the hole and see how much leeway there is in compensating for the relatively smaller pellet hole. There are a few holes made here so close to the line, that without use of the pellet scoring plug, would have received the 'lower' ring value.

The RAW was shooting at around 955 FPS, which is generally a bit hotter than the sweet spot which Martin believes for my rifle is around 930-935 FPS. Wind was almost dead calm and I was shooting the MRDs, no flags again! They were in my wife's car trunk. 

IMG_2986.1617985698.jpg
IMG_2985.1617985737.jpg




I was feeling good, so I tried shooting two NUAH targets and one EBR target at 100 yards. The NUAH targets were lousy, no need to post. The EBR target was not much better, but I was rusty as I have not shot any paper target at 100 yards for several months. Humbling..., and I need to start incorporating more 100 yard practice outings. It's just that the NAT 50 yard BR outings helps the ego a bit more! 😉 It's easy to get used to "liking" to shoot NAT 50 yard BR, when you shoot 100 yard cards like the one below!



IMG_2984.1617986225.jpg



 
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Hi Tommy, I know this is getting to sound like a broken record, but here it goes. If your desire is to shoot good N50 cards...like 250s....you are wasting your time without flags. Especially if shooting pellets. Flags are just as important as any other part of the BR system. Of course, just owning flags and setting them out won’t do you much good...but you will never learn to read the flags without using them. With a solid understanding of what the flags tell you and a solid gun...250s are within reach on these N50 cards.

Mike 



 
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Hi Tommy, I know this is getting to sound like a broken record, but here it goes. If your desire is to shoot good N50 cards...like 250s....you are wasting your time without flags. Especially if shooting pellets. Flags are just as important as any other part of the BR system. Of course, just owning flags and setting them out won’t do you much good...but you will never learn to read the flags without using them. With a solid understanding of what the flags tell you and a solid gun...250s are within reach on these N50 cards.

Mike 


Click to expand...

No worries Mike and thanks for all your support. And also to Joe F, Mike B and others. 

At my 50/100 sight in range, sometimes it gets (or is) crowded when I am there with other Center Fire and .22 BR shooters ( there are 8 benches ). If I don't get there early, I can't set up and use them mostly because it does take a little time to set up targets, flags and such. The guys are all good guys, but some of them are impatient and I get self conscious about taking too much time setting up. Normally, I get there on a Monday or Tuesday, and it thins out. 

I normally always use flags at 50, and I just got some flags from another AGN supporter to try out. Last two outings I just forgot them. I have been good normally and do use them when I shoot the NAT 50 cards. 

Geez - now that I know how to use the scoring plugs, once I get better at reading ( and using them consistently) flags there'll be no stopping me! And the crowd laughs wildly....😄

Heading in for knee replacement surgery on 4/13, so I will be out of pocket in terms of going to the range for a while. 








 
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Super interesting, we don't give much value to flags and they are very necessary.
Is there a rule to place them? or some tip how to do it?
they seem to be even more important with pellets.
Just yesterday I found out about the N50 Benchrest league and I am fascinated.

Jorge
Click to expand...

Jorge

If you use two flags at 50 yards.

Mike (ThomasAir) suggests placing flags at 25 feet ( 8 yards) and 100 feet (33 yards) for NAT 50 yard Benchrest. Lot of good info on the other thread about flag use.

Tom 
 
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