Name all the possible tunes that you could do to make a springer better.
- Thread starter Arnie
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Just get a fwb sport. No "tune" required
Or if you're Tom Gaylord you can squirt it full of gear oil to fix it.
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pdxFrank
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Just get a fwb sport. No "tune" required
discontinued. AoA seems to have them, but it'll be a while before i'm willing to drop 600 bucks into a break-barrel. Thanks for that tho', I'll keep an eye out. Looks great.
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For my TX200HC, I ordered a Tony Leach complete 22 mm piston kit with compression tube without beartrap. It is a complete drop in and is a 12 ft/lb kit. Great for FT. Not cheap.
Tim
Tim
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Just get a fwb sport. No "tune" required
Or if you're Tom Gaylord you can squirt it full of gear oil to fix it.
Oh crap, you mean that is not the dipstick stick and oil window I filled!
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Just get a fwb sport. No "tune" required
Or if you're Tom Gaylord you can squirt it full of gear oil to fix it.
Oh crap, you mean that is not the dipstick stick and oil window I filled!
And even after that it still needed a tune. Imagine that LOL
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2014/10/feinwerkbau-sport-air-rifle-part-5/
They had pretty sloppy guides (like every other springer) and some had pretty bad tubes and loose fitting piston seals. A friend of mine had 4 different ones and had similar issues on all.
Great guns, but they still benefit a bunch from a tune. As does pretty much every springer on the market.
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pdxFrank
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But why. Rhetorical question as I imagine there's no one answer.
I don't "tune" much of anything, if it's not ready, I don't buy it. I'm a driver not a mechanic.
What possible science isn't known by now that airguns can't be completely finished by the time they're out the door?
Or are we fooling ourselves with our tuned guns that might feel better, but really don't shoot any better than when they came out the box?
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I the biggest part of the problem is in mass manufacture. They can't possibly take the time on each gun to polish surfaces, etc.
And, I can tell you a good tune DOES help. I don't think I've seen improvement in accuracy (except with good trigger work), but twang, etc is improved. Take a crappy gun and tune it? Crappy tuned gun. Take a laser and tune it? Much improved user satisfaction. Although I can feel the difference once performed, most of my guns are NOT tuned and I enjoy them nonetheless..
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pdxFrank
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I've owned dozens of firearms and airguns. If not well over 100 in the past decade.
Firearms instructor and national level NRA airgun coach, I've not seen the fanatic need to tune powder-burners as I have with airguns.
Sounds more like another hobby than a real need.
Firearms instructor and national level NRA airgun coach, I've not seen the fanatic need to tune powder-burners as I have with airguns.
Sounds more like another hobby than a real need.
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The simple answer is they are mass production guns, and thrown together quickly and bought by people, like you, that don't know any better about how much nicer a well fitted and tuned gun will shoot. If they were fitted with better parts, and hand assembled and finished and inspected, they would be too expensive. Especially in these days of affordable PCPs and fill equipment.
A gun with proper fitting guides, proper lube, proper fitted piston seal will shoot more consistently and more stable over a wide temp range and have a smoother and more linear recoil. No twisting on firing from the spring rotating, no dieseling, and no piston slam from a loose fitting piston seal. All of which can be issues with a stock gun, but not always and in varying degrees.
The big question here is: do you own or have shot a properly tuned spring gun?
I can assure you that I haven't invested money in machine tools and spent countless hours working on guns just because I was fooling myself. They do shoot better, and for longer. And there certainly isnt enough money in it to make a living working on them.
And in the case of the FWB Sport, some of them need more work to shoot right than any Weihrauch. Bad tubes, poor fitting piston seals and so on.
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pdxFrank
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I've had several, and although they all FEEL better to shoot, the accuracy is limited by the shooter, me.
Still, any accuracy improvement or is about comfort? I shoot a crappy gamo trigger just as well as i can a rekord or t06. Just not in style.
I think what I really need to open my eyes is get some distance. Where I can REALLY test the differences in guns. At just my little 25Y home plinkin' range, about everything is a sub-1" shooter. Gotta find me a good shootin' spot to really test me and the guns limits. Someday I guess. Haven't found that magical spot yet. Anyway, back to show, just my 3-cents.
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pdxFrank
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$90 gun shoots this all day long. My $500+ HW or Diana can too. Good enuff for me since I'm not competing.
Kinda like cars I guess, I could drive to work in a Ford or a McLaren. They both get me there, just one has more comfort and style.
Kinda like cars I guess, I could drive to work in a Ford or a McLaren. They both get me there, just one has more comfort and style.
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I recently took apart both of my HW95s and found both piston springs broken. One rifle is only a year old. One of the things I learned while doing this project is that after market springs are better quality than OEM ones. The piston seal was damaged on both rifles as well. Both rifles got new Hornet Springs and piston seals from ARH. Both breech seals were changed as well even though the originals looked fine and of course a proper clean and lube was done.
This made a huge difference in both guns. When I cocked them they make absolutely no noise except when the piston locks into place. When I fire I don't feel or hear any buzz or twang. My goal here was longevity rather than accuracy. Of course accuracy is still very good in both rifles.
I used to think tuning was not necessary if you invest in a quality springer but then again it's not really a big deal to change out a spring. I'm definitely not an airgun smith but I've had very good results.
This made a huge difference in both guns. When I cocked them they make absolutely no noise except when the piston locks into place. When I fire I don't feel or hear any buzz or twang. My goal here was longevity rather than accuracy. Of course accuracy is still very good in both rifles.
I used to think tuning was not necessary if you invest in a quality springer but then again it's not really a big deal to change out a spring. I'm definitely not an airgun smith but I've had very good results.
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That’s because a tune DOES indeed help in my experience. The rifle may be accurate, but it can become more accurate, EFFICIENT, and CONSISTENT with a tune if you know what you’re doing.
Take for example a stock HW95… there are several inefficiencies with the design that could use sorting, and it WOULD result in a much more SMOOTHER shooting rifle. Consistency is also a by product of such a tune. Run the rifle on delrin bands, use a sleeve, piston buttoning…etc. These DOOOO help a lot.
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I've owned dozens of firearms and airguns. If not well over 100 in the past decade.
Firearms instructor and national level NRA airgun coach, I've not seen the fanatic need to tune powder-burners as I have with airguns.
Sounds more like another hobby than a real need.
Agreed. I own more firearms than airguns, and I don't touch my firearms almost at all, except cleaning. As I said above, I doubt the effect is on accuracy for a tune (except for good trigger work).
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I've owned dozens of firearms and airguns. If not well over 100 in the past decade.
Firearms instructor and national level NRA airgun coach, I've not seen the fanatic need to tune powder-burners as I have with airguns.
Sounds more like another hobby than a real need.
If a person spends any time on PB forums like Rimfire Central, like I do, they will find an amazing number of posts where someone is looking to purchase or has purchased a decent or high end rifle, and they start a thread, "What barrel, trigger, chassis, improvements should I make to my new ________________." It has always amazed me how many folks over there seem to assume that their brand new Anzchutz, CZ, Tikka, etc. is going to come with a sub-par barrel. There are copious numbers of posts about trigger tuning and bedding a stock, or installing a chassis, torquing action screws, installing and tweaking a barrel tuner. I find many similar threads in a couple of high power forums I visit too. Similar arguments there about a manufacturer being unable to take the time required to get the most out of every individual rifle that leaves the production line.
Regarding it sounding more like another hobby than a real need, I tend to agree. If I had to bet, I believe most folks who begin these threads worrying about the finest levels of accuracy have not sent multiple thousands of rounds downrange nor spent years perfecting their marksmanship skills.
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I've owned dozens of firearms and airguns. If not well over 100 in the past decade.
Firearms instructor and national level NRA airgun coach, I've not seen the fanatic need to tune powder-burners as I have with airguns.
Sounds more like another hobby than a real need.
Well yeah, they are two totally different things.
An airgun uses a totally dead projectile. The gun and its workings provides all the motivation for the projectile to get where it's going. All the energy comes from the gun.
A firearm uses the powder in the cartridge to do all the motivating of the projectile. All the gun has to do is ding the firing pin and the cartridge does the rest. That's it.
I guess you've never seen firearm guys reloading ammo or shotshells? Why do that when they come ready to shoot out of a box from the store? What idiots would waste time making their own loads right?
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What Moog said as I have had similar experience with my 95 using an ARH kit with a Vortek seal. This is the old, (about 1 year), piston seal damaged by over oiling/greasing.
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pdxFrank
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You almost sound personally offended we have different opinions. Don't be, really doesn't matter.
WTF does the ammo and reloading have to do w/tuning a springer? The former I get.
Spending another $100 on a $500 airgun to somehow "make it better" I don't. Especially if it has little if any effect on the accuracy of what should be a fine shooter out of the box.
Next time you reply, just because I have question, don't treat me as stupid. I'd run circles around you boy.
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I have three TX200 rifles and all have been "tuned". My two hunter carbine rifles had the most done to them. I have 22 mm pistons that reduces the recoil, they are short stroked for a quick shot cycle and all the internal parts fit exactly as they should. I also have match triggers on both that are predictable and do not require much force to release. I can often spot my pellet in flight and see the impact point on the target, due to the quick, linear recoil. Both guns went from 40 to 45/60 in FT matches to 50 to 55/60. I shot both guns in matches before the tunes, so that is what I base my comparison on. They also have FT stocks.
My TX200SR was tuned by myself simply by having the guide, top-hat, spring and seal all fitting exactly as they should, with no slop or free play. Everything is clean and lubed sparingly with Krytox. The trigger is the same as the carbine models. I shoot about the same scores with that one.
You cannot convince me that I wasted time and money on the changes. As a bonus, I like working on the guns, but only if it results in more targets falling.
My TX200SR was tuned by myself simply by having the guide, top-hat, spring and seal all fitting exactly as they should, with no slop or free play. Everything is clean and lubed sparingly with Krytox. The trigger is the same as the carbine models. I shoot about the same scores with that one.
You cannot convince me that I wasted time and money on the changes. As a bonus, I like working on the guns, but only if it results in more targets falling.
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