N50 at 100 “In The Rings” Slug Challenge

[Franklink]

Just shot 2 of the 5x5 @ 100 yards.

Showing all 50 (2x25) shots here. No sighters, 50 shots in a row. All on one fill of the gun, 32fpe .20/18.9grain NSA slugs. Should have taken more sighters, but that kinda defeats the purpose, in my opinion.

I barely have enough room to fit these targets in my 5 gallon bucket pellet trap but it JUUUSSSTTTT fits.

A 1675 and a 1650. Crazy hard target. Those ten groups average barely a hair over 1moa (1.08moa) and STILL nowhere near the perfect 2500. I read through the whole thread and I'm wanting a golf handicap, since most of the shared targets are from rimfires (exception being some airgun from Tommy and all airgun from Mike).

Other than @tommyb and @thomasair, there are very few shared targets here. And I think those of us that have spent any time shooting at 100 yards and actually considered ALL the shots taken, understand that MOA @ 100 with an airgun is rare. Extremely rare. Lots of guys with guns "that'll shoot MOA" but the reality is that those guns will shoot one or 2 groups out of 5? 10? 15? groups that are MOA, the rest?.....NOT MOA.

Having just shot this, with one of the best 100 yard airguns I've ever shot, I'm very curious to know how many have attempted this, with high hopes of posting it to show how awesome their gun is, only to finish shooting, score it, cry a little, and then crumple it up in frustration and toss it in the trash, tail between their legs, rather than post it here.

Even looking at these bulls in the scope (24x) at 100 yards is a bit demoralizing.

 

[tommyb]

Well I am embarrassed to say I tried 1/2 of a card today at 100Y and I vote we change the thread title to “Inside The Squares”. We had some nasty conditions with 4-13 and gusts to 24 which ate my lunch. I was aiming at adjacent bulls in an attempt to hit the bull beside it. I didn’t bother to guesstimate a score.

View attachment 406966



I am happy to report that my 50Y scores were much more realistic (for me) and more in my wind reading comfort zone.
View attachment 406967View attachment 406968View attachment 406969View attachment 406970

Tim

Your 2nd row from top ( row# 22 ) looks like you would be in the 1800 scoring range. It’s tricky because I can’t exactly see the line hits or misses from the pics. So far, no scoring plug for this fun shoot. Although, it would help us clearly score some holes close to the six ring or box lines if allowed.

I like the ‘in the squares’ analogy.

Hey buddy, “1800” is a very good score with pellets, especially with your wind. Candidly, I won’t even bother with any pellets if it’s not a calm day. I will shoot both Annie’s in some wind, because of their clear advantage with 40g bullets. Pick a calm day for your next attempt, even if you have to wait.

Your N50 50-yard cards are awesome.

 

[tommyb]

Just shot 2 of the 5x5 @ 100 yards.

Showing all 50 (2x25) shots here. No sighters, 50 shots in a row. All on one fill of the gun, 32fpe .20/18.9grain NSA slugs. Should have taken more sighters, but that kinda defeats the purpose, in my opinion.

I barely have enough room to fit these targets in my 5 gallon bucket pellet trap but it JUUUSSSTTTT fits.

A 1675 and a 1650. Crazy hard target. Those ten groups average barely a hair over 1moa (1.08moa) and STILL nowhere near the perfect 2500. I read through the whole thread and I'm wanting a golf handicap, since most of the shared targets are from rimfires (exception being some airgun from Tommy and all airgun from Mike).

Other than @tommyb and @thomasair, there are very few shared targets here. And I think those of us that have spent any time shooting at 100 yards and actually considered ALL the shots taken, understand that MOA @ 100 with an airgun is rare. Extremely rare. Lots of guys with guns "that'll shoot MOA" but the reality is that those guns will shoot one or 2 groups out of 5? 10? 15? groups that are MOA, the rest?.....NOT MOA.

Having just shot this, with one of the best 100 yard airguns I've ever shot, I'm very curious to know how many have attempted this, with high hopes of posting it to show how awesome their gun is, only to finish shooting, score it, cry a little, and then crumple it up in frustration and toss it in the trash, tail between their legs, rather than post it here.

Even looking at these bulls in the scope (24x) at 100 yards is a bit demoralizing.

View attachment 407049

Can’t tell you how many times I have thrown away some cards in the range trash can. Extremely humbling..

Two “1600” level scores for air rifles are good/solid. Since February of 2022, there are about a half dozen or so scores ranging from 1200 to around 2100 approximately; not counting Mike

If we could see some posts and scores with heavier slugs ( either .22, .25 or .30 caliber), it would be interesting to see if scores do rise a bit. And to your last point, this type of challenge provides a way for the purported 100 yard “occasional” MOA group shooters to test their accuracy skills for their guns.

 

[Franklink]

Can’t tell you how many times I have thrown away some cards in the range trash can. Extremely humbling..

Two “1600” level scores for air rifles are good/solid. Since February of 2022, there are about a half dozen or so scores ranging from 1200 to around 2100 approximately; not counting Mike

If we could see some posts and scores with heavier slugs ( either .22, .25 or .30 caliber), it would be interesting to see if scores do rise a bit. And to your last point, this type of challenge provides a way for the purported 100 yard “occasional” MOA group shooters to test their accuracy skills for their guns.

Dunno if you're counting all your Anschutz rimfire scores in your tally or a half dozen.....but the impression I got as I read through the six pages was that your rimfires is the prominent player here (other than Mike).

So, view count on this thread is 4k....and it's been up since Feb or 2022. That makes 21-22? months....and only half a dozen guys have had the nerve to share a group. Certainly makes me think all these guys with "moa airguns" have occasional moa airguns.

(And yeah I understand the forum has lots of lookyloos, some guys just read for fun, but in 4000+ views, I'd expect a couple more would have wanted to show off their groups, which again my point, not many airguns are capable of this target).

 

[tommyb]

Dunno if you're counting all your Anschutz rimfire scores in your tally or a half dozen.....but the impression I got as I read through the six pages was that your rimfires is the prominent player here (other than Mike).

So, view count on this thread is 4k....and it's been up since Feb or 2022. That makes 21-22? months....and only half a dozen guys have had the nerve to share a group. Certainly makes me think all these guys with "moa airguns" have occasional moa airguns.

(And yeah I understand the forum has lots of lookyloos, some guys just read for fun, but in 4000+ views, I'd expect a couple more would have wanted to show off their groups, which again my point, not many airguns are capable of this target).

No, none of my rimfire scores count in the half dozen + a bit more. That reference was strictly for air gun targets that have been submitted by others since the beginning. Yes, most of all my posts were with rimfires.

I did try this with the FX Boss .30 and Red Wolf .25 / .22 HP Safari. Had a 1275, 1300 and I think my best was 1800 with the Boss. Yes, I gave up on my air rifles for quite a while because it was so frustrating and neither platform could keep up with the Rimfires, as I knew they could not.

But, what we all have not seen is anyone trying this with heavier slugs that approach 40 gr or higher, with an air rifle. If I had one that could do it, I would be trying.

Mike’s original intent was well thought out. “See how the slug air guns and rim fires stack up against each other.”

As soon as I get my .30 Paradigm fixed by AOA, I will be posting some 100Y EBR cards on your thread ( shooting groups, not for score) as you requested. And, I will try again here with the Boss and Paradigm, because I am a glutton for punishment.

Lastly, it is disappointing that in 21 months that we have not seen more cards shot ( and that goes for both Rimfire and air gun bench shooters) by enthusiasts that obviously like shooting air rifles at 100 yards and further.

Tom

 

[thomasair]

It’s not unlike field target. If you have a rifle for field target that is only capable of shooting a reliable group that just fits inside the kill zone…even the best shooters are not going to do very well with it. We all need some leeway to make some misjudgments of the wind.

Putting a 22 slug inside the rings will require a person with a 1 moa gun to not only have his scope adjusted perfectly, but also make all wind calls perfectly. That’s not realistic.

You really need a 1/2 moa gun or better to get anywhere close to a 2500….and you will still have to do a great job of wind reading.

It’s a deceptively tough challenge….and difficult things will not be popular.

If we said you could throw out your worst 4 of 5 bulls and only display your best….there would be a lot more participants.

Mike

 

[tommyb]

It’s not unlike field target. If you have a rifle for field target that is only capable of shooting a reliable group that just fits inside the kill zone…even the best shooters are not going to do very well with it. We all need some leeway to make some misjudgments of the wind.

Putting a 22 slug inside the rings will require a person with a 1 moa gun to not only have his scope adjusted perfectly, but also make all wind calls perfectly. That’s not realistic.

You really need a 1/2 moa gun or better to get anywhere close to a 2500….and you will still have to do a great job of wind reading.

It’s a deceptively tough challenge….and difficult things will not be popular.

If we said you could throw out your worst 4 of 5 bulls and only display your best….there would be a lot more participants.

Mike

Agree with the analysis.

How would you envision scoring the card(s) if you could throw away your worst 4 or 5 bulls? Anything that could make this more realistic, easier and attract more RF and slug shooters would be nice.

Can you give a good example of a sample with the idea of having 4 or 5 mulligans?
I’m thinking something like you shoot 5 bulls and throw away one bull for that card ( 25 total shots, but you decide which target bull to discard? )

Btw, we do this in the 30 yard challenge and there is a lot of participation in that thread.

 

[tommyb]

Agree with the analysis. I like the idea of making it easier.

How would you envision scoring the card(s) if you could throw away your worst 4 or 5 bulls? Anything that could make this more realistic, easier and attract more RF and slug shooters would be nice.

Can you give a good example of a sample with the idea of having 4 or 5 mulligans?
I’m thinking something like you shoot 5 bulls and throw away one bull for that card ( 25 total shots, but you decide which target bull to discard? )

Btw, we do this in the 30 yard challenge and there is a lot of participation in that thread.

A quick follow up

So, for each card ( 5 bulls in a card ) you get to toss the worst bull out of that scoring.

You get one throwaway for each card you shoot. So maximum score for a single card is 1600 if you score 400 in 4 bulls?

How does that sound Mike?

 

[steve123]

I got curious after reading Cole's 20 cal slug post so I went out to see how my Vulcan3, my Thomas HP-S with slugs, and my Anschutz 1827F 22rf would do. All done in the morning during two different days around 8-10 AM at 100Y.
Almost calm when I started then 8 mph by the time I stopped. Had one flag out at 50y. All shot prone off the bipod and rear squeeze bag.
BTW I hate shooting for groups at my place which most of the time seems like a waste of time. I pretty much just saw how bad I was doing so I just started shooting for the fun of it to see what vertical would happen so there it is.
The low shot with the HP-S was my last shot and off reg.

I shot my 22rf last and it was a lot less frustrating. The left most 22rf target has 10 shots in it and the wind was blowing harder by then.

Mike N if you want me to remove this that's okay I'll put it in another forum.

 

[tommyb]

I got curious after reading Cole's 20 cal slug post so I went out to see how my Vulcan3, my Thomas HP-S with slugs, and my Anschutz 1827F 22rf would do. All done in the morning during two different days around 8-10 AM at 100Y.
Almost calm when I started then 8 mph by the time I stopped. Had one flag out at 50y. All shot prone off the bipod and rear squeeze bag.
BTW I hate shooting for groups at my place which most of the time seems like a waste of time. I pretty much just saw how bad I was doing so I just started shooting for the fun of it to see what vertical would happen so there it is.
The low shot with the HP-S was my last shot and off reg.

I shot my 22rf last and it was a lot less frustrating. The left most 22rf target has 10 shots in it and the wind was blowing harder by then.

View attachment 407203

Mike N if you want me to remove this that's okay I'll put it in another forum.

Steve

Looks like both the Altaros 49g and 60g grouped pretty well on the EBR targets. Top right looked a bit better.

I was surprised the Annie groups on the bottom weren’t tighter, but 8 mph wind probably caused that. The Thomas groups looked much more consistent. What ammo was used for them?

 

[steve123]

Steve

Looks like both the Altaros 49g and 60g grouped pretty well on the EBR targets. Top right looked a bit better.

I was surprised the Annie groups on the bottom weren’t tighter, but 8 mph wind probably caused that. The Thomas groups looked much more consistent. What ammo was used for them.

Oh sorry my mind got distracted with 22rf.

With the HP-S I used home swaged 42gr 22 cal slugs. I need to experiment with the HST, and that is after cleaning the barrel good, and concentrate how I hold the rifle with the bipod attached. Maybe I can improve some???
Most of all is finding a day when the wind is calmer.

For this same HP-S I could also try the Altaros 32.2gr slugs in my other LW 17.7 twist barrel.

Some days it just goes better??? Like with the V3/60gr in my upper right target shot on the 15th. The 5 touching was my first group and I thought it'd continue somewhat the same, nope.

I'll try a few times more until I get frustrated enough to discontinue, LOL. The wind at my place is a gauntlet of switches and quite frustrating to shoot in.

 

[thomasair]

A quick follow up

So, for each card ( 5 bulls in a card ) you get to toss the worst bull out of that scoring.

You get one throwaway for each card you shoot. So maximum score for a single card is 1600 if you score 400 in 4 bulls?

How does that sound Mike?

I wasn’t actually suggesting that we do that….just pointing out that it would increase participation.

Mike

 

[thomasair]

I got curious after reading Cole's 20 cal slug post so I went out to see how my Vulcan3, my Thomas HP-S with slugs, and my Anschutz 1827F 22rf would do. All done in the morning during two different days around 8-10 AM at 100Y.
Almost calm when I started then 8 mph by the time I stopped. Had one flag out at 50y. All shot prone off the bipod and rear squeeze bag.
BTW I hate shooting for groups at my place which most of the time seems like a waste of time. I pretty much just saw how bad I was doing so I just started shooting for the fun of it to see what vertical would happen so there it is.
The low shot with the HP-S was my last shot and off reg.

I shot my 22rf last and it was a lot less frustrating. The left most 22rf target has 10 shots in it and the wind was blowing harder by then.

View attachment 407203

Mike N if you want me to remove this that's okay I'll put it in another forum.

Doesn’t bother me any, Steve.

 

[Franklink]

I wasn’t actually suggesting that we do that….just pointing out that it would increase participation.

Mike

As I said earlier, I'd bet there's been a lot more participation than has been shared here....guys shoot it and SEE the large discrepancy between how well they thought their gun would do and how well it actually does, and then dont share it publicly.

As you said, a guy needs a 1/2moa gun to get anywhere near a perfect 2500 score. In that other discussion, I'm calling bs on the frequency of airguns that average 100 yard moa accuracy, much less 1/2moa!

 

[thomasair]

Here’s 2 from this morning. Very cold, but wind was light ish.

2250 and 2350

Mike

 

[thomasair]

You’re probably right, Cole.

Here’s a N50 card shot a little after with same gun….at 50 of course.

This is all shot with recycled range lead…which doesn’t really have a good history of strong performance. The range lead is a harder alloy due to it being mixed with pellets. It’s not doing bad, though.

Mike

 

[tommyb]

Here’s 2 from this morning. Very cold, but wind was light ish.

2250 and 2350

MikeView attachment 407430

Very good shooting Mike. Now you’re going to make me work! If you recall, you said this exact thing to me earlier in this thread, after I posted a good card. Ha ha

Amazing how your air rifle that shoots slugs, can shoot as good or better than a rimfire at 100 yards. That 50y card is awesome.

Next week is Thanksgiving week and Lucy and I are hosting ‘eleven’ in total. But, I just got in my new brick of RWS 50 and I will give this a go with the Annie 1907 the following week.

 

[tommyb]

As I said earlier, I'd bet there's been a lot more participation than has been shared here....guys shoot it and SEE the large discrepancy between how well they thought their gun would do and how well it actually does, and then dont share it publicly.

As you said, a guy needs a 1/2moa gun to get anywhere near a perfect 2500 score. In that other discussion, I'm calling bs on the frequency of airguns that average 100 yard moa accuracy, much less 1/2moa!

Cole,

Your probably right, although since this challenge was always designed around being ‘fun,’ I’m not sure why folks would be so hesitant to post their results. It is humbling with air rifles, and is very difficult. But, the idea was to try and attract bench 100Y AG and RF shooters. What surprises me even more is that other than myself, we have not seen any RF cards. In addition to the difficulty, maybe many don’t have access to 100 yard ranges. Puzzling?

In 2020 Mike (CC) created the ‘virtual’ EBR 100y challenge because Covid 19 caused EBR to be cancelled and we had tons of participation. Go figure.

 

[tommyb]

It was Wolf match extra.

By the time I got to the 22rf I just wanted to see how the vertical was so I wasn't paying attention to the flag anymore but I was happy with the left one whichis .6" tall for 10 shots.

Thanks, gotcha.

 

[Franklink]

Cole,

Your probably right, although since this challenge was always designed around being ‘fun,’ I’m not sure why folks would be so hesitant to post their results. It is humbling with air rifles, and is very difficult. But, the idea was to try and attract bench 100Y AG and RF shooters. What surprises me even more is that other than myself, we have not seen any RF cards. In addition to the difficulty, maybe many don’t have access to 100 yard ranges. Puzzling?

In 2020 Mike (CC) created the ‘virtual’ EBR 100y challenge because Covid 19 caused EBR to be cancelled and we had tons of participation. Go figure.

An EBR target is like throwing a golf ball in a 55 gallon drum when compared to the N50 @ 100 yards concept.