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My Ultimate Springer Shootout is coming !!

Nueces

Member
Apr 22, 2016
568
12
Tejas
    Ziabeam, I know just about nothing of these diopter and globe sights. And of course I have them on my new 350. When I look through my rear Williams I'm seeing my front globe with a ring of daylight around ( outside ) it. Should this not be the case? I mean, should I just be seeing my globe and its insert alone? In other words do I need a smaller aperture?
     

    Ziabeam

    Member
    Oct 21, 2016
    486
    17
    na
      "Nueces"75 shooters, I'm curious about the let in 'slots' on the fore end. Decorative or functional?
      
Decorative.
      Very good for grabbing without fear of stock slipping during trip to and from firing poiunt. Mine has some sort of plastic panel at the bottom of the slots which keeps dust and fingers from reaching barrel. I've never had this one out of its stock. Bought it from my aunt after my uncle passed. She insisted I buy it... twisted my arm !!
       

      Ziabeam

      Member
      Oct 21, 2016
      486
      17
      na
        "Nueces"Ziabeam, I know just about nothing of these diopter and globe sights. And of course I have them on my new 350. When I look through my rear Williams I'm seeing my front globe with a ring of daylight around ( outside ) it. Should this not be the case? I mean, should I just be seeing my globe and its insert alone? In other words do I need a smaller aperture?
        
YES !!
        • Daylight all the way around front globe works best for me. Same with bull within front aperture.
        • Too big (rear aperture) is better than too small. Same up front.
        • The ideal setup allows your pupil to dilate slightly to keep your depth of field broad... compelling you to subconsciously  retreat your attention to your front sight which is PROFOUNDLY important. Too much light will give you greater depth of field (small pupil aperture in your own iris) tempting you to look downrange (straying from your front sight). Too little light and your sight picture will become muddled altogether, which is the only reason to err on larger front and/or rear apertures.
        • Adjustable iris type apertures front and rear allow you to keep notes and dial for light conditions rather than fiddling with multiple inserts.
        • The majority of long range records are set on overcast days, when YOUR pupil dilates enough to increase one's depth of field sufficiently that NOT EVERYTHING is in focus... that phenomenon ( overcast skies ) keeps the light from "pushing" the bull, as well as expanding your focal depth of field to the point where your front sight is ONLY in focus when you draw your attention back to it... and viola !!! BETTER scores result.
        If that reply sounds rehearsed... it was !!
        I am an NRA certified Long Range High Master, and was paid to travel around the world by the Marine Corps teaching those fundamentals (among others).

        I do NOT ever intend to brag. My sole purpose of mentioning credentials is to COMPEL you to trust me if just a smidge, and try to comprehend my hasty writings. I absofrigginlutely LOVE teaching marksmanship. Much of what I say may be disregarded if it does not work for you. But I implore you to THINK about what ANY knowledgeable marksman is willing to share. That is how I learned and I'm THRILLED that you asked !!
        Great question.
         
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        Ziabeam

        Member
        Oct 21, 2016
        486
        17
        na
          @ Nueces,

          The critical piece of the puzzle is to begin with a FRONT aperture which makes your bull "pop" into sharp focus WHILE you are staring at the front insert.
          Trust me when you find the right size front aperture ( they typically come in .2mm increments) and the stars align, the majority of your refinements after that (especially indoors) are tweaking the rear aperture to enhance your own eyeball's aperture response.

          DON'T give up. Even old eyes once trained to harness the MAGIC of iron sights, you will stomp most folks who "think" optics are vastly superior.
           
          They're not cheap, but I use an adjustable rear sight iris and front sight. These things will set you back around $150 to $500 (for both). But they will improve your accuracy, as @Ziabeam explained. Especially when you shoot multiple distances like I do (10, 12 and 50 meters) or when you shoot under different lighting conditions.



           

          Ziabeam

          Member
          Oct 21, 2016
          486
          17
          na
            "JoeWayneRhea"No doubt !!
            Now I see why everyone can tell mine has been refinished. I like the flat satin look . Ziabeam that thing has a super nice piece of wood on it
            
Trade ya !! :)
            Just kidding.
            Would probably jinx us both, besides this belonged to my late Uncle Joe, and he always swore if I sold off to much of his stuff he'd spin my sights from the grave.
             

            Ziabeam

            Member
            Oct 21, 2016
            486
            17
            na
              "Jonnes"They're not cheap, but I use an adjustable rear sight iris and front sight. These things will set you back around $200 to $400. But they will improve your accuracy, as @Ziabeam explained. Especially when you shoot multiple disciplines like I do (10, 12 and 50 meters).


              
Jonnes those are excellent examples !!

              Centra and Gehmann are good places to start where a budget is concerned.
              The 75 shot this morning has this Gehmann rear. They are available with varied threads and 2 different iris ranges that overlap. The smaller one goes much smaller than I can use, so I always get the larger one.

              Gehmann 510 Iris Diopter Disc;
               
              Those work actually pretty well also. Great to start with! And when you ever want to go pro, get a front sight that allows for canting correction on your front sight. When I shoot prone, I always cant my rifle about 10 degrees left, I don't cant when I shoot kneeling or standing. And remember, canting will cause a change of point of impact! Something a lot of people don't take in consideration. ;) 
               
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              Nueces

              Member
              Apr 22, 2016
              568
              12
              Tejas
                Nuther question. I am concerned over how to determine the height of any new sights I acquire. Given the construction of this gun. The receiver is some given elevation and the barrel another. I am assuming my front and rear sights need to be the same elevation. Right now they put a front globe on this gun with a 1 centimeter tall base. It works with the Williams FP TG PK Aperture Sight. I assume any new sights I might get need to match up. Right?

                I will go to the Williams sight and see if an adjustable iris can git on my Williams. Anybody know?
                 

                Ziabeam

                Member
                Oct 21, 2016
                486
                17
                na
                  That Gehmann 510 is a whale of a bargain if you just want to get your feet wet, and would not be overkill on your N-Tec. My 52 year old eyes can still focus on objects at the end of my barrel without prescription, so I find it (Gehmann 510) to be a great aid for little $$.

                  That said: Even perfect vision can be significantly augmented by the hardware Jonnes uses. Looks to me like he's running with the big dogs, and has the groups to prove it !!

                  Guess I need to get out my sling and jacket for a mulligan :)
                   
                  "Ziabeam"
                  "Jonnes"... when you ever want to go pro, get a front sight that allows for canting correction on your front sight. ...remember, canting will cause a change of point of impact! Something a lot of people don't take in consideration. ;) 

                  
Spot on !!

                  Do you find that the change is exponential as range increases?

                  Hell yes! I shoot long range also (up to 100m) with small bore rifles and a 10 degrees cant can make the difference between hitting the 10-ring or an 8. Depending on the distance and amount of canting, from a millimeter to one or two centimeters on longer ranges. The longer the distance, the more you cant, the bigger the POI change.
                   
                  "Nueces"Nuther question. I am concerned over how to determine the height of any new sights I acquire. Given the construction of this gun. The receiver is some given elevation and the barrel another. I am assuming my front and rear sights need to be the same elevation. Right now they put a front globe on this gun with a 1 centimeter tall base. It works with the Williams FP TG PK Aperture Sight. I assume any new sights I might get need to match up. Right?

                  I will go to the Williams sight and see if an adjustable iris can git on my Williams. Anybody know?
                  No, good question! The rear sight (diopter) is adjustable for windage and elevation, so you can compensate. Even a Williams sight has those features. Only for 10-meter match rifles you need smaller click ratios. Depending on the diopter, 1 click is 0,1 to 0,5mm at 10 meters. The more expensive the diopter (in general), the more accurate it is. You can buy one for $50 or $500, the more expensive, the lower the click ratio. And if your sights can't be aligned, you can buy risers that will raise your front sight or diopter, depending on where you need the additional space.
                   

                  Nueces

                  Member
                  Apr 22, 2016
                  568
                  12
                  Tejas
                    "Jonnes"
                    "Nueces"Nuther question. I am concerned over how to determine the height of any new sights I acquire. Given the construction of this gun. The receiver is some given elevation and the barrel another. I am assuming my front and rear sights need to be the same elevation. Right now they put a front globe on this gun with a 1 centimeter tall base. It works with the Williams FP TG PK Aperture Sight. I assume any new sights I might get need to match up. Right?

                    I will go to the Williams sight and see if an adjustable iris can git on my Williams. Anybody know?
                    No, good question! The rear sight (diopter) is adjustable for windage and elevation, so you can compensate. Even a Williams sight has those features. Only for 10-meter match rifles you need smaller click ratios. Depending on the diopter, 1 click is 0,1 to 0,5mm at 10 meters. The more expensive the diopter (in general), the more accurate it is. You can buy one for $50 or $500, the more expensive, the more accurate it is. And if that's not enough, you can buy risers that will raise your front sight or diopter, depending on your need.
                    
I got Champions Choice on the phone and they didn't think they could help me with my front globe due to the size of the dovetail cut into the 350. It is .314 thousands, or 8 mm. About 5/16 inch. Were they correct?