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My Scope question could beat a dead horse.

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2L8

2L8

Member
Feb 8, 2019
1,804
523
Denver, Colorado, United States
Scope advice needed:

As an Air gunner that will only shoot to 150-200 yards Max, just to prove I can hit something in a 2”+ zone more than once so I feel I made a good Investment. We all need a Bragging story, right?

Focusing on small game/pesting at 15-50+ yards is more my reality along with punching paper and what not at 75 - 100 to hone my skills. Nothing to fancy, just out with the gang and want to share in the moment having a good time and not thinking “Dang, this scope really Bites in so many ways”.

What do I get? I think you all can help me.

Current setup is a Maximus Hunter .22 that I have modified with many great upgrades that have made it a Very accurate rifle out to 75yards. Embarrassingly scoped with an UTG Hunter 3-9x40 AO, Better than the 6X Centerpoint it came with by far. It’s been fun, but, time to upgrade to a superior level of equipment.

So much information and recommendations on the different types of optics is overwhelming……

  • Long Range, short range, .22 rim fire, shotgun.....
  • Fixed Focal, AO and Side focus
  • BDC, MIL, MOA, MRAD, German, Christmas tree, Duplex……….
  • SFP, FFP,DFP.
  • Tactical, target, ballistic…….
  • 1x4, 3-9x40, 4-16x44, 4.5-30x50……
  • Coated, Multi-coated, Super Multi-coated ,HD ,ED.
  • Fogproof,waterproof,shockproof,thisproof,thatproof…..
  • Guaranteed, Forever, From Whatever regardless of whoever.

The list goes on and on and on until your head is broke.

What I have deciphered out of all this crazy amount of data and opinions I have read is this, accurate or not.

  • Brands that work well for Airgun distances are very few.
  • 1x is great for everything under 500yds. Hmmm?
  • AO is fantastic for 10-100 yards.
  • AO is nice if you want to take you eye off the target to twist the bell. Or, leave it fixed.
  • AO is fussy to adjust properly.
  • Side Focus is excellent, if it allows you to range.
  • Side Focus is nice for ease of use.
  • Side Focus adds an average 30% to the price.
  • Tall turrets are for Tactical applications.
  • Short turrets are for hunting and brush protection.

  • FFP is best for 10-12X, and above.
  • SFP is good for 1-10x and 10x-Inf. (everything)
  • SFP works best for stationary target shooting and short range hunting.
  • FFP is best for Long range shooting……and short range under 100 yards. Go figure.
  • MOA is super if you know inches and feet.
  • MIL is perfect if you think………differently.
  • SFP is best if you zoom and know Math.
  • FFP is best if you zoom and don’t.
  • SFP is good if you are old and/or have poor eyesight.
  • FFP is great if you are young and can see a gnat on a blueberry @100y @3X.
  • SFP is best if you like to use your elevation and windage knobs……since you paid for them.
  • FFP is awesome if you like a 1.8# to 3# boat anchor on top of your lightweight rifle.
  • FFP tubes @ 30mm and up are the new “norm”.
  • SFP can be lite and bright in a 1” tube.
  • FFP are nice during Christmas with all those data points, which can be very helpful.
  • Reticles are totally subjective. I like thin.
  • Pellet ballistics is not considered in most reticle equations.
  • If I can use my 30mm scope tube to pound in my tent stakes, it must be strong.
  • Lifetime Guarantee is a big deal.

As I see it, the opinions are as varied and wide as can be. There is little consensus to what the best scope type is for the Airgunner ranging @ 10-120+yards.

Do I need to spend $1k, $800, $500, $300, or less on a scope to have what makes my experience pleasurable?

Could be that I have answered my Own questions about which scope type and brand will suit Me best. This is solely based on data compilation, others experiences and user opinions, as I have NO repertoire of scopes or years of experience to base my decision with any facts.

New Air rifle is an FX Crown .25

My Scope criteria:

  • Under 20oz.
  • Great glass
  • 30mm or 1”
  • SFP MOA/MOA (thin)
  • Etched glass reticle
  • Side focus
  • 10yrd parallax
  • 3-12x42 or 44
  • Fully Multi-coated
  • >3” exit pupal
  • >3.5” eye relief
  • All the this and that “proofs”
  • Guaranteed Forever
  • Can $pend what I need to

What I have found as my starting point to consider is the Bushnell Engage 3-12x42 @$299 and 20% off. Who would have thought for less than $300 I could get just what I think I need?

I would like to hear from you all about my choice and any other “tweaking” I should be thinking about to be more informed.



Thank you in advance.
 
Yep, agree. The Bushnell Engage 3-12x42 is a great scope for the money... I have one, and also the 4-16x44 and 6-24x50. A great line of reasonably priced scopes. If you want to spend a LOT more, look at the Vortex Razor HD LH 3-15x42. And of course, the Hawke Airmax line of scopes are a good value, and a very nice scope with a great reticle...
 
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If it were me, I would buy the best , most expensive scope one can afford. I would put it in a one piece mount where it can be used over many guns.There is nothing quite like top quality high end glass.

Here is a bushnell engage 4-12x40, for 188.00. https://www.gps4us.com/BUSHNELL-Engage-4-12X40-W-and-Trt-Cap--P82613.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA767jBRBqEiwAGdAOr00Od9XJ5suRr6pwO2RP0lTaRwfeiPTASDJSjoEWcZnLymCodzlL8hoCCLQQAvD_BwE

A 30mm tube is mostly a fad. There are many scopes with 30mm tubes that the Leupold 6.5-20x40 EFR put to complete and utter shame, using a 1 inch tube.

The discovery line of optics are good bang for the buck. Perhaps the best bang for the buck of all scopes. Many 30mm tubes and they will focus close.

The Weaver v16 is another good scope for the money. In matte black, Weavers exterior finish is beautiful. It is a one inch tube, Parallax on the front objective. I think it focuses to 10 meters or so.

In the price range you're looking at I would take a hard look at the at the 5-25 discovery. Maybe save a little money and end up with something as good.

A.T.


 
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"...30mm mostly a fad" ??????

I cant even begin to say how much I disagree. In fact, it's so much better for adjustment, light transfer, and durability over the 1" tubes that I just bought a Athlon etr with a 34mm tube in hopes I get the same increase as i did moving to the 30mm. We'll see how that theory works out when it warms up.

I see no point in using budget optics on a $2000 gun. I wasted way too much money going down that road to ever get anything but quality optics again. 


 
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I tend to agree with Val. My rule of thumb is to look at scopes starting at 50% the cost of the gun, with the Sidewinder 30 being the least scope I'd bother with.

As far as FFP goes I'm not sure.its needed unless you're a hunter, and then you'll have to spend some real money to have usability if you want a wide mag range.

If you do any early morning, or night shooting you should have the 30mm tube with a larger objective for light transfer.

Remember, your ability to see is one of the top things needed for accurate shooting, and while you can shoot with a cheap scope, you'll be much better with a better scope to start with so you can work on your trigger work etc without being distracted by poor optics.
 
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"...30mm mostly a fad" ??????

I cant even begin to say how much I disagree. In fact, it's so much better for adjustment, light transfer, and durability over the 1" tubes that I just bought a Athlon etr with a 34mm tube in hopes I get the same increase as i did moving to the 30mm. We'll see how that theory works out when it warms up.

I see no point in using budget optics on a $2000 gun. I wasted way too much money going down that road to ever get anything but quality optics again. 

Click to expand...


Hello perky.

In all actuality most 30mm tubes use 1 inch innards, This does 0 for light transmission. Some 34mm tubes use larger innards, and this can increase light transmission. One of the benefits of large tubes (over 30mm) they usually have larger lenses. Large lenses are always optically better than small lenses. The other benefit larger tubes provide is more adjustment range.

https://www.swarovskioptik.com/hunting/blog/RS_tube_size_matters_but_not_much

A.I.
 
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Bubblerboy64, You are most correct. Problems need solutions and that's what gets me up in the morning ☕



Centercut, How would you personally compare the 12x42 to the 16x44? They are both virtually identical in stats, but the 16x44 moves just outside my parameters on more than one point as to not justify the jump. The Vortex Razor HD LH 3-15×42 looks Very good to say the least. Considering. The Airmax, not so much with MIL/MIL. After taking a look at the Leupold 6.5-20×40 EFR I decided to investigate other options and came up with a fantastic offering by Leupold in the VX-i3 4.5-14x40 30mm Side Focus in a custom configuration hits most all the Bullet points!! Just concerned that 25yds parallax could be a problem. I could ask them to adjust to 15-20 I believe.



A.T., Excellent ideas as well. Great Glass can cover a lot of "features" and if you get both, jackpot!. The Bushnell 4-12x40 is a fantastic deal, the 2mm extra for the 10% gain in objective size on the 3-12x42 could be moot on this price point of scope. The turrets on the x42 are the candy for me. The Discovery's seem to be getting a lot of press and great reviews which is great for us and hopefully raises the bar on quality and value. The selection of features is not quite covering my bullet list the way I would like, which is to bad as the prices are fantastic for the features.

Excellent input and ideas!


 
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Thanks Val, your opinion has been noted and I will now adjust my scale of "budget". If what you and ViperDude are suggesting is a starting point at least thrice my $300, I'm good with that. A Custom VX-i3 4.5-14×40 has caught my eye for sure. Others are sure to follow.

A.I., your understanding of the O.D and I.D of these scopes intrigues me on many levels. Being a machinist in my youth, I get the idea now, that the extra O.D does not always equate to larger I.D components for the added benefits that light can use. Stronger if I want to pound in my tent stake, but does nothing for my eye and adds extra weight, that could be a bust if you ask me. As many do machine a larger I.D and add great glass for a truly fantastic optic. This of course costs more money. A budget scope can sell the numbers and get away with it. Thanks for the educational Link as well.

Parallax, Thanks. You are correct in your assessment of the limitations I have place on a scope weight of <20oz. It is ideal of course. I am flexible, give or take 2-3oz. My parameters are just that, flexible starting points in which we can explore all the options to determine which have the greatest value for our application. With all your insights I hope to hone my choice to the best I can get for my crazy want. The Bushnell 6500 Elite is a great example of good design and production at a reasonable price. Good call.




 
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To say Leupold scopes are nice is an understatement. One of my first Leupold scopes was a 2-7x33. It didn't cost all that much. I think that I paid 179.00 for it.

At the time I had more expensive scopes, with larger objectives and high magnification. One day I was sitting on the bench looking downrange through the 2-7 and a red bird/cardinal, flew into view and came straight at me. I was taken by the contrasty, nice color rendition and was able to see detail of a bird in flight for a few seconds. That image has stayed with me for years, and when comparing scopes, I always think of it. It was one of those , wow, moments. Leupold is very good. It would be an exceptional choice.

Some other things to consider. Larger Objectives , while they do gather more light, the price you pay is loss in depth of field. This is why I always recommend that a user purchase a corresponding butler creek scope cap for the objective end of your scope. This can be used to vary the size of your objective, for greater depth of field and sometimes sharpness, by simply drilling a hole into it. In other words, you can make a 56mm objective become a 40mm objective or smaller if you like. This also helps focus. For a scope that focuses to 25 yards but you need to get down to 20 yards, you can simply flip the cap down, and like magic, all of a sudden, you're in sharp focus.

There are other things to consider with large objectives, such as field target use. You will want the large objective and shorter depth of field for ranging. Use of rangefinders is not allowed. So competitors use parallax and focus to obtain range. The shorter depth of field makes for more precise ranging.

There is more, such as contrast vs white, but I will stop here. I hope this helps with your decision

A.I.


 
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The problem with all of this is the exponential relationship between quality and cost.

To improve the quality of the optic by 2 you have to spend 10 times the money.

Not to suggest it might not be worth it but having owned some rather high end glass I have found the quality of the mid range scopes are good enough for me.

I would limit my budget to $500 . I’m not so sure that many of us can really tell the difference between at $500 scope and a $2000 scope today.

I like Nikon black and Athlon scopes. Frankly the reticle choice is the thing that keeps me up at night. Find one you like in a scope you. Can justify the money for and be happy 
 
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bubblerboy64, I believe your analysis to be Intriguing and possibly very accurate about the relationship of quality and cost, marketing and graphics not withstanding. I agree, from what I have gathered, about your sentiments toward the Nikon Black and the Athlons. They both seem to be an incredible value. I have the same feeling about reticles as there are so many great choices in today's scopes it's crazy.

Thanks for the great input.
 
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I’m using Nikon Black second focal plane scopes on my varmint rifles. I prefer second on the powder burners. I personally like Nikon over vortex but lots like the vortex scopes. I just think the Nikon has the advantages of a larger exit pupal and is a little clearer brighter optic 

For my air rifle which I use to shoot pigeons at long range my favorite is a Athlon HELOS . It’s FFP and because I shoot it at high magnification I like the FFP and I really like the Christmas tree reticle on that scope. I have a Athlon Argos and a Helos and I think the Helos worth the difference I bought the Helos at a gun show for $450 cash (new) 

so much of this depends on personal preference and WHAT you are using the gun for.

For strickly target shooting I like a small dot on a pretty high magnification scope. I passed up a leupold fixed 36 power this weekend for $300 (used) at a gun show. I should have grabbed that one. 1/8 minute dot .perfect for shooting small targets at known distances off a bench. 

I buy most of my scopes from midway because they have the stuff ship the next day and gladly take returns . I have returned some scopes. You really have to be able to feel and touch.
 
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