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My Redwolf Project

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Cutler

Cutler

Member
Dec 10, 2019
85
19
Gauteng, South Africa
I bought a Redwolf HP in .22 secondhand just over a year ago. It a stunningly beautiful, but it has also been the source of much frustration. I have a shooting range on my farm and shoot almost daily, and try to get to Northcliff (our local shooting range where we have informal competitions)every last Sunday of the month. To get back to the topic, my Wolf has just not been accurate, not like I expect of such a high end rifle. I tried everything, it went to Wyan Schoonwinkel, the local Daystate Guru, it came back a bit better but that pesky POI shift remained. I bought some Carm magazines because everybody complain about the Redwolf mags, even bought a Rowan single shot loader, all to no avail. Then I thought maybe the 3 settings on the computer is wrong for the pellets so I got a Helliboard from Jack in Greece. Now this is a seriously cool addition, 12 levels and each level is adjustable to the nth degree...guess what, still the POI shift persists. At this point it felt like I was just throwing money into an endless pit.
I was bemoaning this fact with James Mitchell, the bespoke stockmaker, which I met quite by chance, and he sold me a .177 CZ barrel, he actually bought several for a project that never happened. So on the way home I thought if I fitted the .177 barrel to my Redwolf and with the Helliboard you can tune it to the last fps, I could build a 12fpe gun for the LV competition at Northcliff. The next couple of days I pulled the .22 barrel from the Wolf and started measuring to machine the CZ barrel. Then I found what could have been the source of all my tears, the hole in the receiver was 14.05mm and the barrel was 13.98, a 0.07mm sloppy fit, the barrel can move around in that hole, even when grub screwed from the top. I could not believe what I found. I then machined up a dummy barrel just to see what size would be a slip fit and I made it 0.02 smaller than the hole and it slipped in, I can turn the barrel to fit even tighter. I managed to find a .177 probe which saves me making one, and debating whether I should fit the original carbon fiber shroud, the CZ barrel is hammer forged, so not pretty on the outside and I don't want to machine it other than the 2 ends in fear that I might release stresses and the barrel bends. Lots to think about, don't want to screw anything up!
 
 There are some people that believe the POI shift that I experienced is due to other factors, but all of them are barrel related, so hopefully with the new CZ barrel it is is going to resolve the issues. The rest of the gun is so amazing, I can't wait to see how it shoots.
This last week-end saw me doing quite a lot of machining to fit the new barrel, I threaded the end should I ever want to shoot the gun with a moderator without the shroud, and cleaned up a 70mm piece directly behind the thread, to clock the barrel up in the lathe and cut the crown perfectly concentric. I did a 45 degree crown and polished it in both directions, then inspected it under my 40 power microscope to make sure there are no burrs.
Next was the part the fits into the receiver. The Red Wolf has 1mm thick o-rings on the barrel on either side of the transfer port, these seem a little thin for me, so I went with 1.5mm, a little more substance. On my test piece I cut the grooves until I got the perfect fit and then did the barrel. Next the transfer port, and on Dallas's advice I am going to machine it oblong, to reduce the area where the pellet has to push past. The dia of the .22 port is 4.5mm and the diameter of the .177 transfer port should be closer to 2,2- 2.5mm, so I calculated the area and determined how long to mill the oblong slot to give approx the same area. I got a .177 pellet probe from Wyan Schoonwinkel, so I can determine the perfect place for the transfer port. I have been struggling to find a breech seal, so had to order a few and wait for it to arrive before attempting the groove in the barrel. I would like to thank both Dallas and Wyan for all their valuable information they so freely shared with me, both top blokes! I know my way around the machine shop, but their experience has made me avoid some costly mistakes. Photo's to follow.
 
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The muzzle end of the CZ barrel, I machined a portion of the barrel using a center in the bore, then gripped that portion in the chuck and clocked it up to be absolutely true before cutting the crown. Also added a standard 1/2" UNF thread if I would like to add a silencer directly to the barrel in future.

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The transfer port, I calculated it must be 3,2mm long and 1.5mm wide to give approx the same area as a 2.5mm dia port. Off to the CNC mill to cut the slot. After the slot was cut I used a diamond burr on the Foredom to flare the hole into a round to match the port in the receiver. A little polishing with a cratex wheel and that job is done.
Next was some groundbreaking stuff for me, I was battling to get the breech o-rings, and even though I am in no way scared of machining the groove for the o-ring in the 4,5mm dia barrel, I looked at the way the Theoben seals without any o-rings in the breech, it has a spring loaded pellet probe that sits against a face on the barrel and thus has a metal to metal seal, and I liked what I saw. So after a brief conversation with Dallas I decide to thread the .177 pellet probe M3 and turn a nylon bushing that would then seal in the barrel against a bevel, and it can be adjusted with the thread to fit just right. So I set off and cut a 45 deg bevel in the barrel, similiar to the one on the crown of the barrel, but just a tad bigger. I also opened up the bore of the barrel at the back so that the pellet will slide in effortlessly. Next was to turn the ally bits that hold the shroud to the barrel, at the back and front. Last thing on the barrel was to give it a quick polish with 4000 grit 3M paper. I like to polish my barrels, it only improves them if done right. Now I could fit the barrel, after lubing the o-rings with silicone grease. All went together as planned. After fitting the modified probe, with the nylon bit that does the sealing, the gun could theoretically shoot, but it proved difficult to get a pellet in the breech with my fat fingers, so I found a suitable piece of aluminium and set off milling bits away until I had a single loading tray, and after a few mods which included 2 neo magnets, it worked very well. I was getting excited, so put up a target and started playing with the FX chrony to get the speed close to the magic 777fps. I started on power level 3, on the standard 69v and got around 810fps. Tried P2 but that was too low at 660, so I returned to P3 and turned the volts down. Eventually I settled on 68,5v which gave me 777/775/779/777fps. For now that is good enough for testing, so I shot a quick 10 shot group at 25m and got a ragged single hole and there was a slight breeze. I am past happy with the results, will spend the rest of the week further refining the speed and also testing some of the pellets I got from Rashaad, our friendly local pellet dealer, , but so far I am very glad with the results, and main thing, that POI shift is gone!!
 
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The single loading tray I made, just roll the pellet down the shute. Note the nylon piece on the pellet probe that seals up against the back of the barrel, eliminating the O-ring in the barrel. The Redwolf lever works brilliantly to push the nylon against the barrel, and with the thread can be adjusted to seal perfectly. Just one less thing to go wrong.
 
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Very early days still, but this setting works very well, got this group in a slight wind at 25meters, 10 shots

Got a pile of pellets to test, from QYS to Cometa and the trusty JSB's in several weights. Once I have a few settings that gives good accuracy I will record a shotstring and tune the Helliboard for consistent speed, by slightly altering the pulse width. I might just have built a wondergun! Time will tell.
 
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Looking good Sir! Daystate has had barrel issues for years now. I assumed that with all the testing and fan fair that the new barrels are being promoted with, that they would have taken better care in fitting. Sadly, same o'l same old.



Knife
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Sorry but that's hogwash! I have never heard of issues with LOTHAR WALTHER barrels fitted to DAYSTATE's except for one, and that was a bad blank!
 
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Hey Cutler, I am amazed, you had the gun for nearly a year and you didn't remove the barrel? how on earth did you clean it!

When I get a new gun the first thing I do is to remove the barrel and clean it!

To be fair you don't even need the O rings if the shank is a tight fit!
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I clean the barrel in the gun with a patch worm, no need to remove the barrel, anyhow it also means taking the scope off to reach the screws and the subsequent hassle of sighting in again. (I also have shims so the scope is as close to optically centered as possible) Even if I took the barrel off it has O-rings that will hamper the feel of the fit, when is the last time you measured your barrel to receiver fit on any of your guns??

O-rings will seal the pressure from the receiver to the transfer port, how is a slip fit (because you have to slip the barrel into the receiver, so there must be some tolerance there) and what will stop the air from escaping through that gap?? My Theoben Rapid Mk2 did not have any O-rings so I modified the barrel to take them. It is a bad design in my books.
 
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Looking good Sir! Daystate has had barrel issues for years now. I assumed that with all the testing and fan fair that the new barrels are being promoted with, that they would have taken better care in fitting. Sadly, same o'l same old.



Knife
Click to expand...


Sorry but that's hogwash! I have never heard of issues with LOTHAR WALTHER barrels fitted to DAYSTATE's except for one, and that was a bad blank!
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I think if you are manufacturing masses of rifles, there will be the odd one that slips through QC, so I don't blame Daystate, maybe it is a Monday rifle. I have not heard of any other barrels that were loose, and pretty sure mine was an isolated case. It give give me grey hairs though.
 
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I use a PATCHWORM also, I also remove my scope every time after I use the gun and I remove the stock, no rezeroing issues, quality rings and a good scope properly mounted and using a torque wrench should get you back on zero every time if you clamp the rings at the same position.

Pulling through with the barrel in place means the patch will probably go in at an angle, you can easily tear the breech O-ring this way.

Measure the fit? whay would I do that, I have owned 12 Redwolves and currently own 4, plus I have a dozen spare barrels, no problems with fit with any of them to be fair, or POI issues even with the ones that aren't that tight, the grubscrews if tightened correctly into the divets should hold the barrel in place perfectly regardless of fit, but seeing as you didn't remove your barrel for a year I guess you never checked the grub screws in all that time either?

Anyways I am really glad you got your issue sorted, now you can shoot with confidence.
 
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I use a PATCHWORM also, I also remove my scope every time after I use the gun and I remove the stock, no rezeroing issues, quality rings and a good scope properly mounted and using a torque wrench should get you back on zero every time if you clamp the rings at the same position.

Pulling through with the barrel in place means the patch will probably go in at an angle, you can easily tear the breech O-ring this way.

Measure the fit? whay would I do that, I have owned 12 Redwolves and currently own 4, plus I have a dozen spare barrels, no problems with fit with any of them to be fair, or POI issues even with the ones that aren't that tight, the grubscrews if tightened correctly into the divets should hold the barrel in place perfectly regardless of fit, but seeing as you didn't remove your barrel for a year I guess you never checked the grub screws in all that time either?

Anyways I am really glad you got your issue sorted, now you can shoot with confidence.
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I must be honest, for a year I will take it out of the safe, then it does not perform, I try a few things, then put it back in the safe and shoot one of my other guns. Then I speak to some guys and haul it out again and try some more stuff, it would shoot 5 tens and then suddenly a 6 or 7 for a few shots, then I adjust the scope and 2 shots later it goes back to the original setting, only now it shoots a 6 or 7 to the other side. The grubs were tight and in the divets, the grubs push the barrel down, but if it has excessive play it can move minute bits side to side. For you to get a 1/2" movement on the target at 25meters the barrel only has to move the smallest of fractions. When I get time I want to sleeve the original LW barrel so it fits properly and see what transpires.
 
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POI shift seems to be a common problem with many if not all air rifles. Let’s face it one of the issues and there may be more then one is the manor in which the barrels are fitted to and then attached the the receiver. Seems like you have found a solution to your particular problem. The other consideration is the relative flimsy nature of the receiver itself. The fact that these guns are rather delicately made as compared to a fire arm means some unintended movement is likely. Certainly a good tight fit between the barrel and the rest of the gun has to help.
I find that I have to “sight in” every time I shoot my guns and often find that I need to make significant adjustments. I have always assumed it was lighting or wind changed but it might be more related to handling of the gun and what you are talking about. 
If you look at the Thomas rifles and the construction of that gun one of the things that I see is a more substantial receiver and barrels which are heavier. Or that’s what I think I see never having had the opportunity to handle one.
I think in years to come we will see improvements. Let’s face it as the guns become more powerful and the ranges are extended the basic engineering has to keep up

Thanks for posting and while I don’t know or understand the details of the machine work I get the concept. Great work 
 
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I love threads like this one. Incredibly talented machinist, and tinkerers, willing to spend their time finding defects & flaws in the largest “most sophisticated” manufacturer’s! It’s become overwhelming obvious that if you truly want the Best Buy from semi custom “AMERICAN” manufacturers. Such as Thomas, American Air Arms and RAW!
All are Well engineered, expertly manufactured, accurate, and built to last! Also most of these Air rifles are less expensive.
 
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POI shift seems to be a common problem with many if not all air rifles. Let’s face it one of the issues and there may be more then one is the manor in which the barrels are fitted to and then attached the the receiver. Seems like you have found a solution to your particular problem. The other consideration is the relative flimsy nature of the receiver itself. The fact that these guns are rather delicately made as compared to a fire arm means some unintended movement is likely. Certainly a good tight fit between the barrel and the rest of the gun has to help.
I find that I have to “sight in” every time I shoot my guns and often find that I need to make significant adjustments. I have always assumed it was lighting or wind changed but it might be more related to handling of the gun and what you are talking about. 
If you look at the Thomas rifles and the construction of that gun one of the things that I see is a more substantial receiver and barrels which are heavier. Or that’s what I think I see never having had the opportunity to handle one.
I think in years to come we will see improvements. Let’s face it as the guns become more powerful and the ranges are extended the basic engineering has to keep up

Thanks for posting and while I don’t know or understand the details of the machine work I get the concept. Great work
Click to expand...

All of my airguns have flimsy barrel set-ups, they call it free floating, I just call it flimsy! It is almost like you are not allowed to touch the barrels in any way, and that includes leaning them against a wall. The barrel is designed to have a certain frequency to shoot accurate and I suspect that is why they are only accurate at certain speeds and with certain pellets.

It seems that if you put the gun away and bring it out again, it has to be re-zeroed. I am sort of OK with that if it then keeps the zero for that session. I wonder how hunters do it? Do they zero each time before shooting a quarry? Maybe Edguns are stronger, apparently you can drive a land Cruiser over them and it improves the accuracy!
 
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