My new Primary Arms 4-14x44 FFP Mil Dot

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zebra

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Sep 29, 2015
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[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]My Primary Arms 4-14x44 FFP mil dot scope finally arrived![/color] In a world where $1500 air guns can arrive looking like they've been in a car accident and where people who buy cheap Chinese garbage are usually punished accordingly, I wasn't expecting much from this thing. After all, it is one of the cheapest FFP scopes available (and made in China) which is hardly ever a good thing. But... so far.... I have to say that I might be a little impressed.




I know this scope has been reviewed here before but I wanted to add my $0.02 in case anyone is looking for an inexpensive but reasonable scope option.

My heart initially sunk when I picked up the package because it was essentially loose in the box. The worst packing effort I have seen in a while but... It survived it's tumble-dryer of a journey in one piece though, so it can take a beating and no harm done.... But... Seriously, PA, stop being stingy with the bubble wrap! Anyway.... 

The first thing that struck me was that it didn't feel as heavy as I was expecting. I put in on the digital scales and it was 3oz less than advertised at approx 21oz. Not light by any stretch but not much different to the appalling 2nd focal 3-9x40 UTG / Leapers I bought for my first scope. It looks like any other scope except for the odd positioning of the side focus wheel. It's not directly opposite the windage wheel which I don't think is a good idea but whatever:



This is the mil dot reticle version. Sorry for the poor quality pic but I was holding the rifle with one hand and my phone camera in the other...


The reticle is not illuminated like some other versions (which probably explains the weight saving). It has an adjustable objective down to 10 yards. You can see clearly down to 5 yards on mine (at 4x). The power is also adjustable 4-14. The glass is clear up to 12x at air rifle distances. 14x is usable at longer ranges only imo. 

All of the turrets are easy to turn with a nice clicking sound except the power wheel which is very stiff on mine. Not sure if that is by design or not but I am hoping it gets a little looser. With it being an FFP, I actually intend to use it regularly...

I zeroed it on my Cricket 25 at 30 yards. It was the easiest zeroing I have experienced to date. The adjustments seemed precise and predictable. It took me 6 pellets to get it dead on. It usually takes me 20+ because I'm not very good at this stuff.

Next, I tested this FFP thing to see what all the fuss was about. I like it. I like it a lot! I set it to 4x and put a pellet in the bulls eye. I set it to 6x and a 2nd pellet joined it through the same hole. 8x, 10x and 12x were no different. What do you know... It actually works!

I tested the accuracy of the AO next. I focussed in on a tree I know to be 50 yards away (from my range finder). I focussed the AO wheel and it read a touch over 50 yards - not bad. It might be usable. I fired at 4x, 9x and 12x and again, then was no shift in poi. No more memorizing different hold-over / unders for different power settings. Good! I really don't enjoy math when a squirrel is getting away... 

I have only done limited testing so far, so I can't comment yet on how well it holds zero or performs in low (or high) light but I can tell you that the glass is not bad for a $230 scope. IMO, too many people claim that their $200 scope is just as good as $1,000+ scopes and they never are (never). I won't set you up for the same disappointment but, at 30 and 50 yards, I was easily able to see pellets hitting the target in more than enough detail to fine tune my zero. That is as good as the majority of people will need from an air rifle scope and more than I get from most other scopes in this price range (that I have bought).

The field of view is wide and I doubt I'll have any issues finding small or fast-moving targets while hunting. 

A lot of this stuff is subjective but for people who are used to $80-$500 Leapers and Hawke scopes, I think you'll find the glass on this to be a welcome step up. I know it doesn't have an illuminated reticle but I never use them on my scopes that do have them. I prefer the weight and cost saving. For those that have to have one, there are two versions available for an extra $40 with illuminated reticles. Not mil dot though. 

If anyone owns one of these PA 4-14x44 FFP scopes and one of the more expensive FFP options, I'd be curious to hear your opinions on how noticeable the difference in clarity is at 20-80 yards (I know they are going to be better at 800 yards). One of the reviews I read before buying it claimed that it delivered 75-80% of what you get on $800+ scopes. Seeing is believing and I'm close to being a believer (for air rifle distances anyway). 

I'll report back when I have fully tested this thing in a week or so but if anyone is in the market for something in this price range, I would put this one on the list of models to research. 
 
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"zebra"

Next, I tested this FFP thing to see what all the fuss was about. I like it. I like it a lot! I set it to 4x and put a pellet in the bulls eye. I set it to 6x and a 2nd pellet joined it through the same hole. 8x, 10x and 12x were no different. What do you know... It actually works!




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Zebra I have never owned a FFF scope but I thought the value of a FFF scope was the subtensions or distance between mildots stay the same regardless of magnification. I thought that would be very beneficial if using mil dots for example squirrel hunting to be able to use the scope at any power unlike the SPF where you are limited to using it at one magnification power. It would be nice if you could shoot at a target that requires a few mildots of holder at different magnification levels and see if impact remains the same. Thanks Bill
 
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"Erik"You are not Limited to One magnification power with a SFP scope. But the reticle is calibrated and "true" at one magnification power. Half it and you half the holdover value etc, you can use Strelok Pro to get the exact holdover value at ANY magnification power.
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True but when you in the field hunting and trying to get the shot off before the game takes off I got enough to do already. Bill
 
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"AirgunBill"
"zebra"

Next, I tested this FFP thing to see what all the fuss was about. I like it. I like it a lot! I set it to 4x and put a pellet in the bulls eye. I set it to 6x and a 2nd pellet joined it through the same hole. 8x, 10x and 12x were no different. What do you know... It actually works!




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Zebra I have never owned a FFF scope but I thought the value of a FFF scope was the subtensions or distance between mildots stay the same regardless of magnification. I thought that would be very beneficial if using mil dots for example squirrel hunting to be able to use the scope at any power unlike the SPF where you are limited to using it at one magnification power. It would be nice if you could shoot at a target that requires a few mildots of holder at different magnification levels and see if impact remains the same. Thanks Bill
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That is indeed the benefit. In the test, I was shooting a target that required a 1 mil dot drop. On my other (SFP) scopes, the poi would not have stayed at 1 mil dot down if I changed the power setting. With this scope the poi stayed at 1 dot down at all power settings. 

It is very beneficial for squirrel hunting (which is mostly what I do). I can find the target using the wide view of lower power settings and then quickly zoom in without having to worry about calculating a different holdover/ under. I don't even need to take my eye off the reticle to look at which power setting I chose. I just zoom in until it looks right.

With my SFP scopes, I limit myself to one or two power settings because my mental arithmetic is not quick enough to work out multiple holdovers before the squirrel runs away. That would be less of an issue in a BR match where you have a little time to set up your shot. 

It really makes shooting a lot easier for someone with my (limited) skills and far more fun. If they made a lightweight version, I would want an FFP on all my air guns I think. Between the ease of set-up (of the shot) and the clarity of the glass, I am making shots that I was missing previously. I'm hitting chipmunks at 50 yards consistently (so far). That's good because I hate chipmunks. 

The downside to this scope is the weight. Guns feel very different with 21oz on the rail vs 12oz with the Clearidge Ultra RM. It less of an issue for me because I was able to drop 1.75lb from my Cricket with a lIghter stock. With a regular wood or synthetic stock, this scope makes the Cricket 25 a heavy gun. 

For people that own Wildcats, Vulcans and Mutants, the question to ask is if it is worth weighing those otherwise lightweight guns down with a heavy scope like this vs maximizing the benefit with something like a 12oz Clearidge. People are using this scope on 1000 yard center fire rifles so it's more than most air gun users will ever need but.... Since when did we start only buying what we absolutely needed.... 

 
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"zebra"
"AirgunBill"
"zebra"







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It is very beneficial for squirrel hunting (which is mostly what I do). I can find the target using the wide view of lower power settings and then quickly zoom in without having to worry about calculating a different holdover/ under. I don't even need to take my eye off the reticle to look at which power setting I chose. I just zoom in until it looks right.

With my SFP scopes, I limit myself to one or two power settings because my mental arithmetic is not quick enough to work out multiple holdovers before the squirrel runs away. That would be less of an issue in a BR match where you have a little time to set up your shot. 




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zebra your squirrel hunting method with the FFP scope is what has me too thinking about buying one of these scopes too. One of the areas I hunt down by the river has a lot of giant sycamore and other trees where many of my shots are well over 40 yards. Taking a shot at these squirrels requires a quick range find, locate the squirrel on lower magnification like you and dialing up the scope power. With these wild squirrels a lot of time you can't wait long before taking the shot doing other calculations. 
 
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It will certainly work well for squirrel hunting. I've been a squirrel serial killer since it arrived and the chipmunk population hasn't exactly been on the increase either. 

You know when you've got a good product because you find yourself reaching for it over the others. I've found myself favoring whichever air gun the PA scope is mounted on. I was using my Mutant Shorty almost exclusively before but the Cricket currently has the new scope and I can't put it down. It helps that the Cricket has been performing particularly well since Ernest installed a titanium valve stem and adjusted my trigger. 

BTW, I found out why the power adjuster was stiff on the PA scope. I didn't see that there is a small screw that allows you to adjust how stiff or loose you want it to be. A slight turn and it's as "just right" as baby bear's porridge. 

As an FYI, I sent back an Athlon Talos that I ordered around the same time as this scope. The Athlon 4-14-44 FFP is also a nice scope for the money. It's a little better than this one but there wasn't a noticable difference for what I use it for. Even though the Athlon was a slightly better scope, I decided to go with the PA as it was less expensive, lighter and met my needs. 

Anyone thinking of buying the PA 4-14x44 FFP should definitely look at the Athlon product too. The Athlon has an illuminated reticle in the mil dot version while the PA illuminated versions have different reticles. For air gun distances, I found the quality of glass to be broadly comparable. The Athlon is $70 more but this is something you'll keep for a while so I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor.

They both have good reviews although the PA has been around longer so there are more of them. It is worth a specific mention that both companies have been called out for having outstanding customer service. I luckily had no need to find out for myself but some of the best reviews were from people that had issues and got replacement scopes sent out. It gives you a good feeling about a product when people are gushing about how well they were treated. I preferred the turrets slightly on the PA. Both products are more scope that you would expect for the money. Night and day compared to the $200-$300 Hawke scopes I've owned. 


 
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"Hammer47"I bought that same scope and was totally underwhelmed with a scope that surely needed to go on a diet and the mushy turrets. It's not REALLY a bad deal for the money and the repeatability of the turrets were fine but If you can live with a fixed power scope try a SWFA SS with the MilQuad reticule and I think you will be pleased.
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I don't find the turrets mushy on mine. They move with neat little clicks that are repeatable. They are far less mushy than most others I have tried in the price range. 

It's not a $1000 scope that's for sure but it's crystal clear at air gun distances. 

I wonder with scopes if they are like air guns in that you might get a bad one where I get lucky with a good one, or if we just have a different perception / opinion about an identical product. 

The PA 4-14x44 FFP has a lot of good reviews on every site it is sold on. It also has a number of great professional reviews. Are you sure it was the 4-14x44 mil dot you tried? Apparently they make / made a 3-9 x 32 which wasn't very good at all. 

 
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"DaBinChe"That scope housing looks like the same as the Athlon Talos BTR 4-14x44 ffp. Same offset side wheel to windage knob.

Looking at it some more and the specs I think they are the same scope minus the luminated recticle and different type of mil on the Talos.
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A lot of scopes are made in the same factory and look similar or even identical on the outside. They are built to the brands stated specifications. 

Even within the same brand, many scopes look identical but the glass is the important part and that's where they differ. 

I've both those scopes side by side and they aren't identical. To be fair, there isn't a huge difference in quality.

BTW, the PA 4-14x44 FFP is available with an illuminated reticle. It just cost and weighs a little more ($270 and 24oz instead of $230 and 21oz). 
 
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I also have the 4-14, but mine has the R-Grid reticle, since I prefer a tree reticle system. Mine satisfied all my testing including reticle shift with parallax and magnification changes. This optic has a lot of internal adjustment, as well as the great reticle as well ( if you can tolerate the horseshoe part of the reticle, which doesn't really bother me). Been waiting a lot of years for a decent cheaper optic that has a Horus-like tree reticle design. PA has accomplished it IMO.
 
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"sscoyote"I also have the 4-14, but mine has the R-Grid reticle, since I prefer a tree reticle system. Mine satisfied all my testing including reticle shift with parallax and magnification changes. This optic has a lot of internal adjustment, as well as the great reticle as well ( if you can tolerate the horseshoe part of the reticle, which doesn't really bother me). Been waiting a lot of years for a decent cheaper optic that has a Horus-like tree reticle design. PA has accomplished it IMO.
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"Satisfied" is a good word to describe how I feel about this scope too. I just rechecked the zero and it's all still holding. No noticeable shift which is the next thing I worry about once I have checked the glass quality on a cheaper scope. 

I like it when I feel satisfied vs feeling like I made the wrong choice. 



 
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I believe I have the same scope under the BSA brand. It's a BSA TMD 4 14x44-30. The Primary Arms was on my list to buy, except it was out of stock at the time.

Reviews at the time said that after a couple hundred .223 on AR-15's, the scope tended to simply break, with reticle falling out. Since I'm using a PCP, that really doesn't matter to me. Other than that, everyone loved the scope, especially the FFP, so no calculations for magnification, and they loved the Mil Mil aspect rather than mixed measurement systems on other scopes.

So far, my scope has performed flawlessly. Shooting this morning at 25 yards, the parallax focus worked great and can be focused down to 10 yards if I remember correctly.

It had everything I wanted in a scope, is bright and clear, and simply works. If I remember right, I paid about $250 for it, not sure if that was a good price or not, but that was competitive at the time.

I found the same scope under several brands, including BSA, Primary Arms, and Falcon, called the Menace.

I like it. That's all I can say.
 
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As Zebra has already stated many scopes from multiple brands all come out of a few different factories. The difference comes from what the company states they want for the spec of glass and how good the turrets and things like that are made. The Chinese can put out horrible products but they do have the ability to put out higher quality if they are told thats what the result needs to be and they are paid for higher quality. Will it stand side by side with the higher quality offerings? nope not past airgun range but they can be very good for our use and airgun distance. I have read allot of reviews on the PA stuff and they get good ratings and allot of guys report no issues being used on 308 and larger calibers. Its possible to get a few bad ones to customers that do fail but I think PA has a pretty solid rep. Keep us informed zebra on how it performs over time.
 
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"LDP"As Zebra has already stated many scopes from multiple brands all come out of a few different factories. The difference comes from what the company states they want for the spec of glass and how good the turrets and things like that are made. The Chinese can put out horrible products but they do have the ability to put out higher quality if they are told thats what the result needs to be and they are paid for higher quality. Will it stand side by side with the higher quality offerings? nope not past airgun range but they can be very good for our use and airgun distance. I have read allot of reviews on the PA stuff and they get good ratings and allot of guys report no issues being used on 308 and larger calibers. Its possible to get a few bad ones to customers that do fail but I think PA has a pretty solid rep. Keep us informed zebra on how it performs over time.
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Will do.

So far the only thing I don't care for is the eye relief. It could have been a little more generous for my taste but that is the trade off for the low price. 

One thing I really do like is a side effect of the FFP reticle. I spend a lot of the time on 4X while hunting and at that power, the crosshairs are relatively small and thin but.... there is no change in the holdover / holdunder. This means I can cover even a small target (like a squirrels head) with 3-4 mill dots (2 up and 2 down) and not worry about the distance or how much to adjust. I just shoot and whether the poi is at zero or two dots down, I hit my target. It feels almost like cheating.

If I need more precision than just hitting the squirrels head, I can zoom in just like with any other scope. 

BTW, it isn't the same as the BSA in any of it's forms. It shares a similar outer tube like many scopes but that's about it. I'm told the PA is a better scope but I don't have direct experience of the BSA.

 
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I noticed that a few people who placed in the top 10 at Extreme Benchrest last year were using this scope in a few of the disciplines. I don't know about this year as I haven't seen a list for 2016 yet. 

It shows how versatile this scope is and how well it performs for the money in terms of usable turrets and ranging. 

This scope will perform passed air rifle distances btw. I first saw it on a YouTube video about making a 1000yard powder burner set-up for under $1,000. 

I haven't tested it at anything close to 1000 yards but I can see very well that it is clear at 200-300 yards. 
 
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