HW/Weihrauch My new gun has droop.

Most interesting discussion. It makes me appreciate that I am spoiled by mostly shooting old HW's with tall rear sights, LOL.

Dumb question from an amateur mechanic: could the manufacturer improve this situation, by mounting the sprung breech bolt so that it could rotate a degree or two off center - in other words, adjust itself to a slightly off-kilter fixed chisel? I may be misunderstanding something basic, but it seems like the droop issue stems from such a tiny dimensional discrepancy that there should be a way to work around it.
 
Most interesting discussion. It makes me appreciate that I am spoiled by mostly shooting old HW's with tall rear sights, LOL.

Dumb question from an amateur mechanic: could the manufacturer improve this situation, by mounting the sprung breech bolt so that it could rotate a degree or two off center - in other words, adjust itself to a slightly off-kilter fixed chisel? I may be misunderstanding something basic, but it seems like the droop issue stems from such a tiny dimensional discrepancy that there should be a way to work around it.
I guess that could work but I would think that would be harder for Weihrauch to machine right than simply installing the chisel block level. This is just sloppy work. It's nothing new I've seen it several Weihrauchs from the 80 to now. Most people that have it don't know it. They only sometimes address the sympton, barrel droop. You'd never know there was a problem with the rifle using the factory sights.

It's just like like many recent 95 family guns have droop from binding cocking arms. There the fix isn't bending the barrel. It's bending the cocking arm to allowing consistent full lock up. Probably half the new rifles sent to me have droop that needs to be fixed. There's bunches of other scarier defects in these guns to worry about. Droop is nothing.
 
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I was just wondering last night..
Did you do the TP test to see if all the air was going down the barrel??
No I didn't feel the need to. Its making full power and the breech seal prints a full circle around the transfer port. It's very rare for Weihrauch break barrels with factory synthetic breech seals to leak. Barrel droop would have to be tremendous for it to leak. In fact I've never had a Weihrauch break barrel with factory synthetic breech seals leak. On some of my more used guns the breech seals look like total crap. They're yellowed and completely smooshed yet they hold air.

I don't change them because fresh thick new seals can cause point of impact problems until the flatten out and conform to the gun's gap. Aftermarket breech seals are a big no no with these guns. Even if they get the thickness right they're often too hard and cause droop.
 
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How do you ever hit anything with the barrel so droopy? I guess you are not using a scope on the spring tube? It just seems to me that if the gun was correct by design and assembly the barrel would be in the same axis/alignment as the spring tube.

If it is common for the lock up to vary as the seal compresses this would be an area in which these break open guns could evolve to a solution that does not produce varable barrel alignment. The thread, Still in the Game.
 
How do you ever hit anything with the barrel so droopy? I guess you are not using a scope on the spring tube? It just seems to me that if the gun was correct by design and assembly the barrel would be in the same axis/alignment as the spring tube.
Barrel droop does not affect accuracy. It only affects using sighting systems mounted on the compression (spring) tube. Guns that are run with the scope elevation maxed out or close to it will have all sorts of problems. I addressed the fixes for that in the first post here. Yes in a perfect world the barrel should be parallel to the comp tube. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.

If it is common for the lock up to vary as the seal compresses this would be an area in which these break open guns could evolve to a solution that does not produce varable barrel alignment. The thread, Still in the Game
It's not always but it is common on Weihrauchs. I can't say specifically for others because I don't work on anything else. The situation with new proud Weihrauch breech seals causing changes in point of impact problems is generally short lived and goes away with useage. Most people unwittingly experience this with new guns. The accuracy difference the proud seal causes is lost in all the other processes of breaking in a new springer. By time the gun is done "breaking in" the seal has flattened and fitted to the gun.

The Hw30/R7 has been long criticized for having an inadequate barrel detent because they are prone to erratic lock up when new or or after breech seal changes. The problem goes away with the right breech seal and some use. Pivot tention is critical on them. Especially with fresh breech seals.

Smearing the thinnest amount of silicone or Teflon based grease on a new breech seal face will help the rifle reach full lock up until the seal flattens to size. This is for all Weihrauchs.
 
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Most interesting discussion. It makes me appreciate that I am spoiled by mostly shooting old HW's with tall rear sights, LOL.

Dumb question from an amateur mechanic: could the manufacturer improve this situation, by mounting the sprung breech bolt so that it could rotate a degree or two off center - in other words, adjust itself to a slightly off-kilter fixed chisel? I may be misunderstanding something basic, but it seems like the droop issue stems from such a tiny dimensional discrepancy that there should be a way to work around it.
By manufacturing tolerances it’s actually a large manufacturing discrepancy.
If you can’t maintain tolerances of a thou or two you belong in the 19th century.
 
Today I swapped to the lower front sight. I'm still about inch low at 25 yards with most pellets. I will say just goofing around the gun is accurate given the wind and random pellets.

Other than the barrel droop the tune work is good. Its shooting 9.5 to 11.3 fpe depending pellet. Low extreme spread with the right pellets. Everything is smooth, adjusted properly and tight were it should be. It's a nice gun. It'll be a shame to take it apart.

It's still heavier to cock than I want. My shoulder was started to feel it after 30 or so shots. I'll let sit a few days cocked and see if that helps. If not I'll open her up and see about clipping coils.

That's it for today's Hw50 report.

Be well
Ron

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Your close- you could always knock a bit of the post down with a file on the fixed site.
Absolutely.
About 1/16th of an inch..
Thanks guys. That'll mess up the sight for other guns. I'll just tweak the barrel over the weekend. No big deal. I do it all the time. I just miss having the basement test range next to my work bench. It was much easier to be patient and make small adjustments. It'll be nice though when my shop is done.

The gun will sit cocked between now and then and we'll see if the spring softens some. Sometimes they do, sometime they don't. Always when you didn't want them to. lol.

be well
Ron
 
After running out of elevation adjustment on my peep sight on my very new to me Hw50 I eyeballed the barrel angle. Sure enough it's got droop. You can see it here.
View attachment 596385
This is not uncommon in late model Hw50s so I figure I'd run through it here on the forum for the benefit of others. The cause on this one is the fixed wedge that sets the lock up isn't set properly. It's rotated so the breech sits on its high corner. You can see the witness mark under the left side of the breech step between the chisel and breech seal.
View attachment 596388
You can see the matching witness mark on the high point at the top of the fixed chisel.
View attachment 596387
There's a few ways to deal with this.
If scoping this rifle without messing with the rifle itself I'd recommended using a one piece Sportsmatch brand drooper mount. Some larger scopes don't fit one piece drooper mounts so the next choice would adjustable rings. There's a few out there but few are worth their salt. The ones that are, are expensive. Sportsmatch and Burris Signature come to mind.

I'm putting peeps on this rifle and I'm out of elevation adjustment. My simplest choice for peeps is a shorter front sight.

Now if I want to address the droop in the gun itself, there's a few ways I might go. First is to machine down the high corner of the fixed chisel. That would allow the breech to rotate to a lower position bringing the barrel up. Machining that down between the compression tube ears with hand tools is dicey.

Another way is I could remove metal from under the breech at the witness mark but that might turn into an eyesore that I'll have to look at every time I load the gun.

Both of those last two ways could go horribly wrong if I removed the slightest amount too much metal. Then the flexible breech seal would set your lock up point. At least until it smooshed flat and the breech hit metal somewhere.

The last way I know to address this is to bend the barrel up a tick. This gives some people the Willys but I do it all the time.

Stay tuned how.
Thanks for sharing
 
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Thanks guys. That'll mess up the sight for other guns. I'll just tweak the barrel over the weekend. No big deal. I do it all the time. I just miss having the basement test range next to my work bench. It was much easier to be patient and make small adjustments. It'll be nice though when my shop is done.

The gun will sit cocked between now and then and we'll see if the spring softens some. Sometimes they do, sometime they don't. Always when you didn't want them to. lol.

be well
Ron
Good luck. I've had a newly installed ARH indoor plinker spring sitting cocked for about a week, in hope of getting it down closer to 9fpe from 9.5fpe. So far, power has NOT changed even a tiny bit 🤷‍♂️
R
 
Good luck. I've had a newly installed ARH indoor plinker spring sitting cocked for about a week, in hope of getting it down closer to 9fpe from 9.5fpe. So far, power has NOT changed even a tiny bit 🤷‍♂️
R
It depends on the spring profile, material and how close to coil bind it is. That's why leaving some guns cocked has no effect on them and others go soft. It's worth a try.
 
You could also pull the spring and run some all thread through it and squeeze it to coil bind and let it sit for a bit.
Yup. That's what Tom Gaylord called scragging a spring. He believes it destresses a spring and makes it live longer. I'm not sure of all that. I've tried it to set a spring beforehand to make installation easier. If leaving the gun cocked doesn't work I'll clip a coil if I'm taking the gun apart.

Thanks
Be well
 
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Good luck. I've had a newly installed ARH indoor plinker spring sitting cocked for about a week, in hope of getting it down closer to 9fpe from 9.5fpe. So far, power has NOT changed even a tiny bit 🤷‍♂️
R
Have you noticed much of a decrease in cocking effort between that kit and the original spring?

Thanks
Ron