🔴 MORE COMPACT Bullpups?

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JungleShooter

JungleShooter

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MORE COMPACT Bullpups?

(3 parts: Wonderings — Gun List — and Questions)




🔷 WONDERINGS
I'm all in favor of making airguns more powerful — with slugs leading the way. 👍🏼

However, I also favor airguns being SHORT! (Not just bullpups per se, but COMPACT bullpups.)


So, I see product development going full speed for more power.

But I'm not seeing product development hastening to shorten the guns..... 🤔


Sure, a lot of so called "compact" bullpups are coming out — but none beats the EDgun Lelya 2 with its short 23.4" (=59.5cm) without power reduction.
The Lelya 2 has been around for over half a decade.... And by now I would have expected bullpups being offered in say 20" (=51cm) or less.....


The manufacturers are inventing new technologies to create more power, and create it more consistently. Great! More power to them!! 
But I would have expected that they would ALSO create new technologies to: 
• reduce the length of the action
• facilitate shorter but higher pressure air bursts — while keeping muzzle velocity variations small
• improve shrouds and silencers to keep the noise down — while still creating the same power despite a shorter barrel.....


Well, I'll put it on my Christmas wishlist when I write to Eduard and Axel.... 🤣






🔶 GUN LIST of COMPACT BULLPUPS

So, below is a list of compact bullpups  (plus Leshiy), sorted from shorter to longer.

▪23.4" = 59.5cm: EDGun Lelya 2.0 — came out in 2016 [Lelya 1 is too rare to be included]

▪23.6" = 60cm: Taipan Veteran Compact

▪23.9" = 61cm: Ataman BP17

▪24.9" = 63.3cm: EDgun Leshiy [Classic 250mm] 

▪24.5" = 62cm: KalibrGun Cricket 2 Compact — Discontinued

▪24.5" = 62cm: AGT Uragan Compact

▪24.9" = 63.3cm: RTI Prophet Compact

▪25.0" = 63.5cm: FX Impact M3 Compact

▪25.2" = 64cm: KalibrGun Argus 45

▪25.5" = 64.8cm: EDgun Leshiy 2 Short

▪25.7" = 65.3: RTI Prophet Performance Compact 



————————The following are excluded, because they have just "REGULAR" bullpup length — call them "compact" all you want:
▪26.8" = 68cm: FX Wildcat MKIII "Compact"
▪27.5" = 70cm: FX Maverick "Compact"
————————The following gun appears(!) short, but once you silence it to the level of the other bullpups, it's not compact anymore, just a regular bullpup size:
▪24.8" = 63cm — PLUS silencer!: STEYR Pro X Scout






🔷 3 QUESTIONS

❓ (1) Are there more?

❓ (2) Which ones (besides FX) can have the regulator adjusted without degassing or complicated disassembly?
(something as simple as taking the stock off to get to the regulator would be fine)

❓ (3) Which ones shoot slugs pretty well (besides the FX)?




Thanks for your help!

Matthias


 
Compact impact has a 500 mm barrel which is just about 20 inches you get any shorter and you start to loose a lot of power with shorter barrels and then have to bump up the reg higher to get the power people want it depends on your definition of power to say there isn't a power reduction with a shorter barrel because higher reg pressures are needed to get up to speed also depends on caliber and pellet weight 
 
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15 in barrel even at 175 bar wouldnt be great with slugs even if you took it up to 4500 psi and regulated it your shot count is going to suffer and refilling becomes harder unless you a compressor or are filling from 6000 psi large steel tank like a nitrogen tank as for shrouds you still need barrel length to go over top and back to let the air expand there are regs that can handle 200 bar also barrel length for power is the biggest limiting factor 
 
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Compact impact has a 500 mm barrel which is just about 20 inches you get any shorter and you start to loose a lot of power with shorter barrels and then have to bump up the reg higher to get the power people want it depends on your definition of power to say there isn't a power reduction with a shorter barrel because higher reg pressures are needed to get up to speed also depends on caliber and pellet weight
Click to expand...






^^^^^That!!!


impact compact checks all the boxes and then some! 

If you sacrifice power a little then try the impact ultra compact. as cool as it is I still prefer the factory compact. 
https://youtu.be/JOH18XXjDok


 
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The problem is, how much shorter can a manufacturer make them without compromising a comfortable length of pull and being able to mount a standard magnified optic? The problem with it being so short is that only fixed sights, a red dot, or a short eye relief prismatic scope could be used. Then there's the issue of low shot count and power. It would be more of a niche gun that might not sell so well but I'm with you. I wouldn't mind seeing one being offered.
 
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I have 2 cricket compact - 177 - n - .22 hard to find a reason to sell those....perfect center balance n acurracy .. but compact guns I think is a niche for a few air guners n sales simply don't make the numbers .. that's why compact crickets are gone n taipan compacts are really hard to get...n you could see they are not the hot tickets because when they go for sale sometimes they are posted a few times.. people want power even when they might not have the space to enjoy it.... but for those interested in a back yard plinker there's is nothing like a cricket or taipan with a plenum it will give you the power needed n shot count , this to do slug the 177 ..11g - the .22 .. 17.5 ..most of all these old guns will require dismantle to access the regulator n tuning.
20220107_195437.1642393357.jpg
20220107_195204.1642393360.jpg

 
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Here yeah go...shortest of the bunch -

Airmaks - Caiman at 22.6" lg. CZ barrel and all ! Although it's now a little longer with the "Fat Boy" on it, but still shorter than its bigger brother the "X" version . Smooth cocking action, easy to load.

Airmaks Caiman .22.1642394679.JPG


Caiman X at 27.5" lg.

Airmaks Caiman X .22.1642394708.JPG


I like shooting my Caiman (.22) (and the X). Comfortable at the shoulder, accurate. Nice looking (to me).

Mike
 
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More compact than the 24-26" bullpup range = PISTOL. 

And by pistol I mean that in more ways than one. A Vet Short is a challenge to shoot as accurately as a longer and traditional "sporter" shaped gun. Make em any shorter and accuracy and precision are going to further suffer. Then there's the physics of a shorter barrel producing less energy and more noise for comparable fpe coming from a longer barreled gun.

So, shrink down a "bullpup" to even further than the already available compact bullpups and you're sacrificing ease of attaining accuracy, power output, low report, etc. 
 
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More compact than the 24-26" bullpup range = PISTOL. 

And by pistol I mean that in more ways than one. A Vet Short is a challenge to shoot as accurately as a longer and traditional "sporter" shaped gun. Make em any shorter and accuracy and precision are going to further suffer. Then there's the physics of a shorter barrel producing less energy and more noise for comparable fpe coming from a longer barreled gun.

So, shrink down a "bullpup" to even further than the already available compact bullpups and you're sacrificing ease of attaining accuracy, power output, low report, etc.
Click to expand...

SOMEONE...apparently doesn't like bullpups !

Most listed will do fine at 100 yrds. More than a couple of YouTube shooters have proven you wrong about distance shooting.

BUT, you gotta remember, "originally"...the bullpup was designed for "close combat shooting...NOT 75yrd. and 100yrd. stuff.

"You"...may not be any good at the "challenge" of "accurate" shooting, but others just...maybe !

And...more than a couple of my "short barreled guns are more than capable of 875fps (.22) which is more than enough speed for most any sort of shooting. But I have mine turned down a bit.

Noise...you're kidding right. With as YOU say, less power, the report will ALSO...be less. My RTI, my FX Mk3, my Pulsar, and a few others, don't even wake my two cats up when shooting within about 5 ft. of them while sleeping...so yeah, real loud. 

Mike
 
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More compact than the 24-26" bullpup range = PISTOL. 

And by pistol I mean that in more ways than one. A Vet Short is a challenge to shoot as accurately as a longer and traditional "sporter" shaped gun. Make em any shorter and accuracy and precision are going to further suffer. Then there's the physics of a shorter barrel producing less energy and more noise for comparable fpe coming from a longer barreled gun.

So, shrink down a "bullpup" to even further than the already available compact bullpups and you're sacrificing ease of attaining accuracy, power output, low report, etc.
Click to expand...

SOMEONE...apparently doesn't like bullpups !

Most listed will do fine at 100 yrds. More than a couple of YouTube shooters have proven you wrong about distance shooting.

BUT, you gotta remember, "originally"...the bullpup was designed for "close combat shooting...NOT 75yrd. and 100yrd. stuff.

"You"...may not be any good at the "challenge" of "accurate" shooting, but others just...maybe !

And...more than a couple of my "short barreled guns are more than capable of 875fps (.22) which is more than enough speed for most any sort of shooting. But I have mine turned down a bit.

Noise...you're kidding right. With as YOU say, less power, the report will ALSO...be less. My RTI, my FX Mk3, my Pulsar, and a few others, don't even wake my two cats up when shooting within about 5 ft. of them while sleeping...so yeah, real loud. 

Mike
Click to expand...

Funny you say that, cuz this someone actually loves bullpups. I own a Long and a Short Veteran. Shoot them both in regular and extreme field target (and have won matches with either bullpup in both disciplines, shot a "clean" no misses/perfect match with the Short one time too). I also use them for whacking pdogs, ground squirrels, starlings, and euro doves. The Short is my general use gun and it gets shot 2 or 3 times as much as any of the rest that I own.

As for the rest of your comments, lets just say that I've just shot bullpups enough to be realistic about them. 
 
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Thank you for all your contributions! 👍🏼


🔸I missed the AirMaks Caiman completely, this is truly progress: The action does not just go backwards, but downwards — which saves space: 

▪22.6" = 57.5cm: AirMaks Caiman [not Caiman X]


🔸The Brocock Atomic XR Compact Carbine (from AoA) is certainly an interesting gun (it's the Atomic XR pistol with a folding stock). However... — in Steve's (AEAC) estimation it is as loud as a 22 short — and no wonder, as the shroud extends only about half an inch beyond the barrel end. So, its 23" have to be extended by an adequate silencer to compare it to the other guns.

▪23.0" = 58.4cmm — PLUS Silencer!: Brocock Atomic XR Compact Carbine



🔸The project gun, FX Impact Ultra Compact, is very nice. Not attainable for me, but it makes me wonder if I could find a builder that will modify a more affordable bullpup and combine the best features of the current factory guns in one gun....



Keep it coming! 😊


Matthias
 
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🔸Franklink, I'm not sure if I'm on a "quest" just yet — I just really like short guns, always have. And there are situations where people could get frightened if they saw a gun (the country where I chose to live went through a terrible time of terrorism in the not too distant past....). 





🔸I am painfully aware that shortening a gun comes at a price, cf. the Gun Performance Triangle attached below. 😊 

However, one of my observations in the OP was that technological development has advanced in other areas — but not much in the area of compactness to "reduce the price of shortness" by improving silencing and power delivery despite a short barrel.😄



Matthias





GUN Performance Triangle PCPs to Balance Power Quietness Compactness. 2.2MB.1642432215.jpg

 
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Take into consideration the fact that some bullpups have an integrated silencer (EDgun Lelya2) and others don't (FX Impact compact) which makes them way longer if you want to have them usable.
Click to expand...



Bolio,

I am not familiar enough with the Impact Compact (and the Maverick Compact). Help me out: Do they just have a bare barrel? Or do they have a silencing shroud?



🔸 From what I understand, to get the best silencing, we'd want:

• tubing as long as feasible in front of the end of the barrel to contain the gases

• tubing as large as feasible behind the end of the barrel (around the barrel) to contain the gases



Typical shrouds provide both. A silencer screwed on to a bare barrel only the first....



Matthias 😊




 
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