• The AGN App is ready! Search "Airgun Nation" in your App store. To compliment this new tech we've assigned the "Threads" Feed & "Dark" Mode. To revert back click HERE.

Molecular Sieve Orientation

Bleaudg - that is the most over the top untra-serious moisture management system I've ever seen. With that refrigerated air drier in there, I honestly don't think any of your filters will need to be recharged during the life of the Shoebox compressor - even if it lives a long and glorious life.

I have about 275 hours on my Shoebox setup. I dried the Wilkerson desiccant at ~150 hours mostly as a check to see how it was doing, since the beads were still very blue with no saturated beads visible anywhere. I checked the weight before and after drying, and the water removed was pretty much right on the amount that I calculated would be removed if everything was working per the math (which was good to know). The beads did come out of the drying process a deeper, darker blue than they went in, but the amount of water removed indicated that when I dried them, they had only absorbed about 20% of their capacity at that time. Since I figure I don't really want to go much over 50% before drying again, I should only need to dry them about every 375 hours . . . .

And I don't have a refrigerated dryer before them! I expect you could more than double the time between drying your silica. And your Daiblo sees so little remaining vapor that it will last pretty much forever too - assuming that you too have shut offs in line that separate your driers from the air path when not in use . . .

I will say that had I found ANY evidence that my system was still passing sufficient vapor that condensation would occur, my plan was to replace the silica beads with molecular sieve beads and be done with it. But I have not done so as there was no need (but I still might at some point just because I can for about $70 or so). In your case you could do that, sell the Diablo, end up with the same air quality, come out ahead financially AND reduce your fill times with the Shoebox since you don't "waste" run time pressurizing the Diablo every time - that should increase the usable life of your system.

Here is my set up. I do remove the cover and have the fans to the left blowing over it while running. I use an electrical timer to control the runtime.

P1430380.JPG
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hangtown-Shooter
Bleaudg - that is the most over the top untra-serious moisture management system I've ever seen. With that refrigerated air drier in there, I honestly don't think any of your filters will need to be recharged during the life of the Shoebox compressor - even if it lives a long and glorious life.

I have about 275 hours on my Shoebox setup. I dried the Wilkerson desiccant at ~150 hours mostly as a check to see how it was doing, since the beads were still very blue with no saturated beads visible anywhere. I checked the weight before and after drying, and the water removed was pretty much right on the amount that I calculated would be removed if everything was working per the math (which was good to know). The beads did come out of the drying process a deeper, darker blue than they went in, but the amount of water removed indicated that when I dried them, they had only absorbed about 20% of their capacity at that time. Since I figure I don't really want to go much over 50% before drying again, I should only need to dry them about every 375 hours . . . .

And I don't have a refrigerated dryer before them! I expect you could more than double the time between drying your silica. And your Daiblo sees so little remaining vapor that it will last pretty much forever too - assuming that you too have shut offs in line that separate your driers from the air path when not in use . . .

I will say that had I found ANY evidence that my system was still passing sufficient vapor that condensation would occur, my plan was to replace the silica beads with molecular sieve beads and be done with it. But I have not done so as there was no need (but I still might at some point just because I can for about $70 or so). In your case you could do that, sell the Diablo, end up with the same air quality, come out ahead financially AND reduce your fill times with the Shoebox since you don't "waste" run time pressurizing the Diablo every time - that should increase the usable life of your system.

Here is my set up. I do remove the cover and have the fans to the left blowing over it while running. I use an electrical timer to control the runtime.

View attachment 339576
Thanks for your reply. Nice setup for your Shoebox! Might add some small casters to make it easier to move around. My previous "Hobby" was custom air brush painting and when the cost of custom paint can be in the hundreds of dollars, any oil or water that comes through your air brush will definitely ruin your day. That is the reason for the "Overkill" to ensure dry air. However when I got into the pellet gun/PCP hobby I didn't need to spend $1500 to $4000 on a HP air compressor. I just needed to use my existing setup and add a Booster. The Shoebox was a no brainer! Add a couple filters and some hose and spend the extra money on Tanks, guns, ammo, guns....
 
I had the same drier that Brancato showed in the video. In the photo below I show how it is vertically mounted on my bench. The airflow is shown with the red arrows show the airflow direction. The air actually enters into a tee fitting at the bottom. One side of the tee threads into the drier. One side is the air entry. And the very bottom of the tee has a purge valve that I used to crack open every couple minutes to drain any collected water. The green arrow is the purge valve.

View attachment 336612
Ok, you didn't get that rig at Home Depot, so where did you get it? Or at least a source for the parts.
 
Ok, you didn't get that rig at Home Depot, so where did you get it? Or at least a source for the parts.
I fabricated that from items salvaged from a machine at work. The filter itself came from Joe Brancato. The two valves used for isolating the drier are regular 5000psi scuba valves made by Thermo, 1/4 NPT male x 1/4NPT female. Tubing and fittings are swage type fittings, they can be sourced from McMaster Carr. The gold anodized piece is a Aqua Environment Back Pressure Valve (priority valve). It does not allow air to flow until 1900 psi, it is what causes dwell time in the drier for moisture to be absorbed by the beads. The bleed valve on the bottom is from a scuba supply vendor or as a last resort Amazon.
If you want any detailed help feel free to PM me. I used to build panels for the oil an gas industry up to 60,000 psi and sorta no my way around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HogKiller
It is so awesome to see Shoebox compressors alive and well. Sometimes think that I am amongst a few left but apparently not. I stopped logging hours on my F8 after 400. One low pressure cylinder rebuild and a few crank bushings. I picked up 2 more shoeboxes for spare parts so hopefully am set for a few more years. The ingenuity of the above designs is amazing . So glad where this thread has traveled.
 
It is so awesome to see Shoebox compressors alive and well. Sometimes think that I am amongst a few left but apparently not. I stopped logging hours on my F8 after 400. One low pressure cylinder rebuild and a few crank bushings. I picked up 2 more shoeboxes for spare parts so hopefully am set for a few more years. The ingenuity of the above designs is amazing . So glad where this thread has traveled.
On a different forum I read that they do still make them but only for NASA.
 
This is my setup Im running the copper ones outlet airhose over the top rather than over the bottem so the air would go up, with my setup the air outlet goes into the sieve an goes down and ends with the air venturi microbore fill whip. I was wondering Joe said that its not doing anything if its not pressurising in the copper type filters like the one I got with a bleed its pressurising the whole thing the air fills the blue an the gold one, I bleed it ever 5 mins or so a few spurts of moisture fly out and I also bleed the compressor moisture every few minutes just a split second loosen it an bit of mositure flies out. Should I change my setup to run the air outlet hose on my orange/copper colored one from the bottom up, I dont know is this makes a difference, But I see everyone running thairs from botton up so Imma ask.

43.jpg
 
Do you know which is the top? I assume that the charcoal is the last media that the air should pass. And with air entering the bottom the water would tend to stay at the bottom. With your setup I wouldn't expect much moisture to get into the last filter.
Im only running molecular sieve in both the blue one an the gold one.
 
Do you know which is the top? I assume that the charcoal is the last media that the air should pass. And with air entering the bottom the water would tend to stay at the bottom. With your setup I wouldn't expect much moisture to get into the last filter.
I packed my tuxing tight full of sieve in between 2 cotton pads,
 
  • Like
Reactions: rc4fun
I do not own a shoebox compressor and admit I know little about it. I would be reluctant to spend much to try and dry the air coming out of one of my compressors before sending it to a very high pressure compressor, however. First reason is the capacity of the air to hold moisture is strongly a function of the pressure. 125psi air can hold a lot more moisture than 4500 psi air. So what you remove from the 125 psi airstream will be of little benefit to the 4500 psi air stream. The way my 125psi compressors work is they feed a tank. That tank provides the air a chance to cool and moisture to come out. It does, I have to drain the moisture from my tanks. So you already have at least a crude moisture filter on the 125 psi line. I don't think a moisture filter on the 125 psi line will hurt anything, I just don't think it will do much to help the 4500 psi line.
 
I do not own a shoebox compressor and admit I know little about it. I would be reluctant to spend much to try and dry the air coming out of one of my compressors before sending it to a very high pressure compressor, however. First reason is the capacity of the air to hold moisture is strongly a function of the pressure. 125psi air can hold a lot more moisture than 4500 psi air. So what you remove from the 125 psi airstream will be of little benefit to the 4500 psi air stream. The way my 125psi compressors work is they feed a tank. That tank provides the air a chance to cool and moisture to come out. It does, I have to drain the moisture from my tanks. So you already have at least a crude moisture filter on the 125 psi line. I don't think a moisture filter on the 125 psi line will hurt anything, I just don't think it will do much to help the 4500 psi line.
I respectfully disagree with what you wrote about drying air coming out of a shop compressor - in fact all the data to refute it is already written earlier in this topic . . .

In fact, when we compress air the first 125 psi and pause there on the journey to 4500 psi, allowing the air to cool back to ambient temperature, the capacity of that air to hold water vapor has been reduced by about 90%. With the right sizing and selection of a good desiccant drier, it is easily possible to remove enough remaining water vapor from the air as it enters either a booster or a Shoebox compressor that there will be no chance of condensation at 4500 psi. Silica gel can do the job if shooting at room temperature and above; molecular sieve would be a further guarantee of success if one is planning to shoot well below freezing.

"Facts" that I have seen thrown about that air can only be properly dried with desiccant at the final pressure are simply false - most likely propagated as fear tactics to market such filters. Granted, these filters are pretty much all one can use on an "all-in-one" compressor, but they are not the only option for "split" systems like boosters and Shoebox compressors.

Bottom line - it can be quite a bit cheaper to dry the air before final compression than after it, as you only need a drier rated at 125 psi rather than 4500 psi. But that filter will use more desiccant to get the job done (but still be much cheaper in the end).

I just want the correct info to be available to all . . . .
 
Last edited: