Because I started out in centerfire powder burner Benchrest, I have always believed that a small group is the true measure of the rifleman, the rifle, the scope the ammunition and the conditions. On top of that reading articles written by guys like Jim Carmichael, that was how a rifle was tested. You shot numerous five shot groups at 100 yards. You identified the best group and the average group, for different types of ammo.
I actually threw in the towel on competing in that type of benchrest sport, because a huge part of winning, came down the case prep, load work, and finding that magical hummer barrel. The serious guys like Tony, would buy five barrels, and compete with the best. I wasn’t in that league nor was I interested in pursuing it. I shot for years with a guy at a small private range in Minnesota. This was after I started shooting airguns. He would be sitting at his bench with his 6PPC, and I would be sitting in my bench next to him with my air rifle, both of us shooting at 100 yards. This gentleman ended up setting the world record For something I believe was called a machine rest rifle. It didn’t have a stock, it was an action mounted inside of a machine rest. He would sit for hours working up the best load, while was shooting my air guns. That was just my choice. The day he set the world record, was in an official match. He shot the smallest agg ever from that type of a rifle. I’m guessing here, but I’m betting Tony has set a few world records. So what did Jerry do that day he set the world record? He shot smaller groups than anyone else, not only on that day, but ever in the history of the sport. Will someone beat his record someday? Probably, they may have already. This was a few years ago. So we’re his groups repeatable? Heck no. Does that mean they weren’t good groups? Heck no. It just means on that day in that time in those conditions he was as good as anyone has ever shot.
What’s my point of that huge dialogue? I really enjoy shooting five shot groups. I found out I don’t really care about shooting 25 shot groups, especially with a pellet gun that’s not accurate enough to do so with consistency at 100 yards.
What’s an MOA gun at 100 yards? It’s a rifle that in reasonable conditions you can put five shots in under an inch. Any decent centerfire rifle with handloads will do that every time, regardless of conditions (other than hurricane etc.).
So what’s an MOA a air rifle? No air rifle that I know of is going to shoot an MOA group in all conditions. If winds are switching and they’re above 5 miles an hour, you’re going to miss read the wind once in a while, and get caught in the switch, even Mike N. Or if you’re shooting pellets which is what we’re discussing, you’re going to get flyers. Inexplicable shots. You know you made a good shot everything was right, you pull the trigger and it lands an inch and a half low. There’s not a dang thing I can do about that or anyone else on this thread.
So what is an MOA air rifle? I didn’t think it existed until a guy named Harry who lived in Australia, started posting 1 inch groups shot with air guns. Then he even posted a half inch group. Then he did it again. This is like 12 years ago. Then other guys around the world started to try to do it, it literally seemed impossible. Then I did it once. Then one day I did it a dozen times. Conditions were obviously very good. Is that a MOA air rifle? Not really, it was a rapid shooting JSB jumbos at 890 ft./s.
then I built a rapid in 25, and tethered I could very consistently shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards unless conditions were really bad. I will call consistently somewhere around 70% of the time. I was actually at this point trying to shoot 1/2 inch groups. The pellet of choice was of course the JSB King, shooting at 890 ft./s. I shot quite a few sub MO a 10 shot groups that summer. It wasn’t easy. Especially when you get up around shots 8 9 and 10.
Technology has improved significantly since then. This weekend I was shooting a red wolf 177 at 100 yards, just for fun. Just trying to see how it would group at 100 yards, five shot groups of course. I shot A half a dozen MOA groups on Sunday, with the 17 RW. In my opinion, that is an MOA rifle in the right conditions. If I want to shoot sub MOA all the time, I grab my 17 hornet PB.
I also shot the second smallest group I’ve ever shot with an air gun. It was right around 3/10 of an inch with a 17 caliber rifle at 100 yards. it was not calm, There was a nice steady left to right wind, with occasional switches. It was moving the pellets between one and 2 inches. I had one other group that day, where the first four shots were in less than a quarter inch, the fifth was about a half inch away.
even though I’m not an expert, I will say that I one hundred percent agree with Tony‘s comments That shooting small groups is a dying game. I’ve put this in posts before, the moving backer absolutely killed that sport. It’s too darn complex of a set up for every range in the nation to adopt.
So what I’ve discovered in the last six months, is that 100 yard benchrest with air guns and pellets doesn’t make any sense to me. I absolutely know without a doubt when I sit down to shoot 25 shots at
yds that some of them are not going to go where I expect them to, when I pull the trigger and it’s beyond my ability to impact that.
On the other hand shooting small five shot groups is really fun for me. A lot of other people also enjoy it. I don’t care what anyone says, when you’ve got four shots in a small cluster, putting that fifth shot right on top of it is extremely difficult...And at 100 yards, wow!
I don’t understand why people get upset, when others are having fun shooting five shot groups. It was how benchrest was born. It has been the standard measurement of the accuracy of a rifle since time began.
I also keep hearing how easy it is. Yet, with the exception of Mike N (and he doesn’t even care). I bet there are very few people reading this thread who have shot 10+ 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards, with an air rifle. That’s with pellets slugs large caliber small calibers, doesn’t matter.
And yes, the first shot really is free. I look at it as the calibration shot. But after that you have to hit the other shots. And you have to put them in there dead center. To shoot the fifth shot of a 3/10 of an inch group, you’ve got a hit a target that’s the size of a 30 caliber bullet at 100 yards. Four times, in a row. I not only do I find that hard, when I do it I find it really fun.
I would love to see anyone reading this take me up on the challenge to beat the group I’m going to put below. My guess is very few will even try. Mostly will say, it’s not important it’s only five shots.
I realize I am posting this on a bench rest forum, which is dedicated to shooting 25 shots for a match. That said, let the common man have his fun shooting some small groups! Who cares if it’s not repeatable, it’s fun. The more people who try to shoot at 100 yards, the more we’re going to learn. I’m sure before I’m pushing up grass we’re gonna be shooting at 200 with slugs.
You guys are the leaders of the pack, let the common man have some fun. Instead of knocking him down for shooting his smallest group ever, praise him or her. And yes I know there’s always going to be BS people out there who put groups out that aren’t real. None of us can control that. And frankly who cares.
i’m not throwing in the towel on the 100 yard BR completely at this point, but right now I’m going to be sticking with field target for competition, And going long with air guns for fun.
Show me how easy this is, shoot a smaller group:
I agree with you that there are more and more Newbys getting into the sport, and just automatically believe they'll be shooting MOA at 100 yards with their new expensive pellet guns...
