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Master Threads Explained

I have been considering addressing some of these questions for a while. This week I have decided to answer questions I've encountered along the way since introducing master threads on AGN. If there is a question that wasn't addressed, ask and I may answer. Snarky and trolling comments will be treated accordingly.

Questions:
1) What is a master thread?
2) How did master threads come about?
3) Why do we have master threads?
4) What is the difference between a regular thread and a master thread?
5) Why do you try to moderate a master thread?


Answers:
1) Simply put, a master thread is a repository of airgun related information. They utilize methods of compiling and organizing existing information on a topic, mapping it out in order to guide readers through a framework designed to lead readers to more specific details (via threads, other forums, articles, instruction manuals, diagrams, videos, sites, etc). Think of a master thread as an outline of a topic (think of how we are taught to write essays) or a map to a destination (answers to questions you may have). If you want to know more details about a topic, you can find specific information easily through the loose ordering of information into categories containing corresponding links to other threads. It is a sort of open source "wiki" styled compilation of information in which I provide a framework and invite members to freely add relevant information to the these threads.

2) The master thread concept came about as a combination of two primary elements:
a) a somewhat difficult internal search engine that didn't always immediately yield the best results. This is before AGN was overhauled with a beefed up search function and before the brand tags that we see today. You used to literally have to sift through search results and read for hours (sometimes) to find answers. Sometimes you still may not have found exactly what you were looking for. I was a person that did a ton of reading here. So I learned the threads fairly well over the course of a few years.

b) another member commented that it would be nice if someone organized all of the information about a particular airgun so that the information would be readily accessible. I think it was an AAA Evol thread. Consequently, I believe that the first AGN "Master Thread" was the "All Things Evol - Master Thread." These threads take days to weeks to compile. Often times I'd remember certain things that I read or who posted them so I had a bit of an edge when it came to searching for information.

3) I created the first master thread because after the member mentioned how it would be nice to have this, I pitched an idea or two at AGN staff about the feasibility of better organizing information so that it would be easier for members to locate specific info and have it more readily accessible to them. I think we had different visions on how to accomplish that. When the discussion didn't develop in to a collaborative effort I didn't question the decision. I simply accepted what was explained to me and moved along. That is to say that some things were explained to me. Later the brand labels/tags emerged which are very helpful. Ultimately I decided to compile and organize information on a subject and post it to show that it could be done and to observe how it would be received. The concept has proven beneficial to numerous members and it has also fomented discussion and encouraged troubleshooting by concentrating members who are excited or passionate about particular products or activities into single common threads to exchange thoughts, ideas, and to promote learning.

4) As a repository, a master thread is meant to be a framework of a topic that guides readers to specific information that they are seeking. To get to the specifics or the "meat" of a topic, links are provided for the reader to read further or ask more nuanced questions in linked threads that delve off into more specific areas of the master thread subject. They were never meant to be a catch-all or dump box for lazy members or those that don't do so well using search engines or technology. Consequently, several master threads have devolved into the very thing I wished to avoid. It's almost like getting a text book in grade-school where the previous children wrote and drew all over the pages, didn't cover it, tore pages, etc. All of these things are distracting and can discourage students from wanting to use a particular book (in our case discourage members from using a particular master thread). The problem with dumping questions in the master thread or repeating the same questions that have already been asked and answered in the master thread as opposed to ancillary threads is it can make the master threads unnecessarily longer. As a result it can further discourage members and others from wanting to read through them to find relevant information that they seek. In general, redundant questions and answers lessen the appeal of threads while lengthening them unnecessarily.

A regular thread can discuss several topics within a single thread. They are a lot more susceptible to members going on off-topic tangents. They often die after the posting wanes Eventually other members may introduce the same or a similar topic in more recent threads. Overall we end up with an over abundance of threads on the same or simialr topics. If you search AGN long enough for answers to your questions you may also notice what I’m stating.

5) A question I have received , often sharply, that some people really seem to want an answer to. ”Why do you monitor, moderate, and communicate with people within the master threads the way that you do?” Because I care more about the preservation and access to good information concerning our airguns and airgun related hobbies. I care about that a lot more than how you feel about me suggesting something, asking things of others, or telling others not to do a thing out of respect for the concept of the master thread and for the consideration of others who will come behind us to read AGN threads. I'm thinking years ahead here.

The concept was implemented with the intent of expanding the framework by adding linked threads to the master threads, not to continue discussions that are best carried on in threads that began similar or the same discussion. Reading earlier master threads, I didn't always articulate this clearly. However, I have noticed that a significant portion of members will comment on a thread only reading the last page or the last post. So if you go to a master thread and never read page #1 or post #1 then you are likely clueless as to what this is even supposed to be. One member told me that the title says "ALL THINGS..." in which it did. However, these threads weren't spawned to create monetary opportunities for entrepreneurial minded individuals to chime in and litter the threads intermittently with free advertising spots for their products. That's totally unfair to others. If you make something, let us know what you have, leave contact info or a link to further details, and move along. I'm pretty sure your post will remain within the thread as long as it lasts so long as it doesn't violate AGN rules.


Anyhow, I wanted to explain these things that people have asked or may have been wondering. I may not compile another because some of the mess that people come to me with doesn't always feel like it's worth the sacrifice. It's a concept, many of you can do the same or something similar. It's one of those "put up or shut up things." If you don't like something about AGN and complain about it , have you tried offering a solution? No? Then why not try offering something useful or simply be quiet? A few have. Kudos to them. I was glad to see it.


*These are my thoughts on this. If there are typos, I'll fix them later as I find them.
 
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Interesting as most threads on AGN are pretty Technically Light in content. This site appears to appeal to mostly end users and not so much the technical side of tuning, modifying & custom building.

The term "Master Thread" becomes pretty vague and the content any said thread may or may not contain remains somewhat obscure I'm thinking :unsure:

Or .... I'm just not getting it, which is entirely possible :oops:
 
Interesting as most threads on AGN are pretty Technically Light in content. This site appears to appeal to mostly end users and not so much the technical side of tuning, modifying & custom building.

The term "Master Thread" becomes pretty vague and the content any said thread may or may not contain remains somewhat obscure I'm thinking :unsure:

Or .... I'm just not getting it, which is entirely possible :oops:
@Motorhead What specifically do you think could use more clarification?
 
First off, a lot of the conversations on forums is based on others reading what other have said, some of these conversations sorta get tossed into a salad bowl and shuffled around getting then restated in a new thread as a Word salad :rolleyes:
Facts, hearsay or the incorrect information gets repeated enough times it takes on a life as an established new truth.

I'm not trying to stand on a soapbox here and create discord ..... It is that IMO, for threads title and content their within to contain valid and solid information to be then consumed by newer air gunners or those seeking greater understanding and knowledge would require a fair bit of redaction of content / context, proofing of facts verses hearsay and mostly Constructive CONTENT over Promotion / Influencing type conversations.

Web sites with Advertisers, Running banners etc .... are not going to tolerate negativity be it the truth or not if we're being honest in the content of many threads and there subject matter that very well may qualify being in a said Master thread.

Again ... My words here might just be drivel & I'm missing your point.
 
First off, a lot of the conversations on forums is based on others reading what other have said, some of these conversations sorta get tossed into a salad bowl and shuffled around getting then restated in a new thread as a Word salad :rolleyes:
Facts, hearsay or the incorrect information gets repeated enough times it takes on a life as an established new truth.

I'm not trying to stand on a soapbox here and create discord ..... It is that IMO, for threads title and content their within to contain valid and solid information to be then consumed by newer air gunners or those seeking greater understanding and knowledge would require a fair bit of redaction of content / context, proofing of facts verses hearsay and mostly Constructive CONTENT over Promotion / Influencing type conversations.

Web sites with Advertisers, Running banners etc .... are not going to tolerate negativity be it the truth or not if we're being honest in the content of many threads and there subject matter that very well may qualify being in a said Master thread.

Again ... My words here might just be drivel & I'm missing your point.

@Motorhead It doesn’t read as drivel at all. I think I understand your points. People are here for different reasons. People learn differently. Forums have existed in certain forms for years. A lot of opinions and incorrect information are often shared. To weed it out would take a considerable amount of work or redaction on the part of posters. As time goes on all of the necessary redaction would be extremely time consuming and highly unlikely to correct.

I think that a medium can exist between the two points. People are here for different reasons. As a person who has and is learning a great deal from others via the AGN forums, I observed some things that may be helpful to some and offered a solution. Is this the end-all-be-all panacea? Absolutely not, but I think it’s a step in the right direction as far as an attempt at ordering information so that it can be readily accessible and fairly easy to locate. Think of a bicycle rim. The master threads were conceptualized and refined to act as a hub. The ancillary linked threads are akin to the spokes. One can fit a lot more on a spoke than a hub. A hub exists to connect the spokes in order to balance the rim. This is my rudimentary and crude understanding of a wheel. Now imagine trying to stick spokes all over a wheel, connected to the hub but not the rim or connected off-center. Would not the wheel become compromised?
 
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@Motorhead and @Ezana4CE

The Master Thread concept as described is certainly valid and the fundamental concept of having a central repository for “All Things” pertaining to a particular piece of hardware is great. However unless the forum is modified to accommodate this as a special type of thread they will as Motörhead pointed out be subject to devolving into a typical thread that as noted can be posted to by anyone with any content.

I’m assuming we can all imagine a Master Thread in it’s current form going off the rails so I am not going to elaborate on this.

Shortcomings or at least questions pertaining to Master Threads: IF they are able to be converted to some special type of thread by the forum developers
-Who is the “Expert” that determines what is acceptable for inclusion in the thread?
-If a single individual user is deemed the expert, would it be prudent to have only that user able to post information and links to the thread?
-Users come and go, what happens when that individual user no longer tends the thread?

Maybe some sort of submission for inclusion process to a locked or restricted thread? This would then transcend individual users and potentially make each Master Thread more of a group effort with more limits on superfluous posts by random folks just looking to “get 10 posts” if you know what I mean.

I’m just thinking out loud here, I think the concept is fantastic and has a real need to get fleshed out. I don’t know what sort of additional development would need to be done by Michael and the mods, they certainly don’t need more work. However some type of limit on what is and more importantly is NOT included in a Master Threads warrants further discussion.
 
@QuarterPint I have mulled over the benefit of locking a Master Thread so that they do not become overrun with superfluous babble and tangential conversation. However, since it’s an open source concept that wouldn’t work so well if locked as technologies and modification are somewhat of a constant evolution. My primary concern was to keep the Master Threads centered upon links to external sources of information, as mentioned in a previous post, from AGN threads to YouTube videos. The series of questions and related questions tend to muck up the Master Threads take away from the conceptual convenience of access to condensed sources of information.

Expertise is not really a question. As the OP of most of these threads, I sort of grade the contents of the threads that I post as either something with enough viable input from reputable sources or members or “meat” or threads that do not. Of course conversation in some of these threads continue after the dates that I post them. The beauty of open sourcing Master Thread content is that the burden of keeping these threads current isn’t solely on the OP. Some manufactures or distributor links go dead, some YouTube videos go private, have age restriction, or become no longer accessible after I post them. For those links, I it an OP would have to edit, the others can be manages be the member that introduced them. As for the accuracy of the information communicated, that’s up to each individual to determine. Since several threads are linked via the Master Threads, the detailed ancillary threads are the best places to flesh out any questions or disagreements on divergent points or perspectives. When doing this sort of reading it helps to focus on facts because when working on an airgun, that’s what helps most. Can I replicate or come close to the stated results posted by “x” member? That’s really a significant portion of the point of a Master Thread, guiding members to that end. Then I also aim to help member further discussions on evolving topics. At the end of the day, the Master Thread is an outline, framework, or hub for information surrounding a specific product (usually an airgun) or topic.

I’m open to discuss further refinement or integration of the Master Thread concept into the AGN forums if that’s what staff desires, but I will not push the issue. I’ve asked about a similar thing or two in the past, I received responses, and as far as I’m concerned that’s it. I imagine if there is truly a concerted demand, then other members may speak up for what they want and perhaps if it’s something enough people want something may change. I’m not too concerned either way.
 
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I have been considering addressing some of these questions for a while. This week I have decided to answer questions I've encountered along the way since introducing master threads on AGN. If there is a question that wasn't addressed, ask and I may answer. Snarky and trolling comments will be treated accordingly.

Questions:
1) What is a master thread?
2) How did master threads come about?
3) Why do we have master threads?
4) What is the difference between a regular thread and a master thread?
5) Why do you try to moderate a master thread?


Answers:
1) Simply put, a master thread is a repository of airgun related information. They utilize methods of compiling and organizing existing information on a topic, mapping it out in order to guide readers through a framework designed to lead readers to more specific details (via threads, other forums, articles, instruction manuals, diagrams, videos, sites, etc). Think of a master thread as an outline of a topic (think of how we are taught to write essays) or a map to a destination (answers to questions you may have). If you want to know more details about a topic, you can find specific information easily through the loose ordering of information into categories containing corresponding links to other threads. It is a sort of open source "wiki" styled compilation of information in which I provide a framework and invite members to freely add relevant information to the these threads.

2) The master thread concept came about as a combination of two primary elements:
a) a somewhat difficult internal search engine that didn't always immediately yield the best results. This is before AGN was overhauled with a beefed up search function and before the brand tags that we see today. You used to literally have to sift through search results and read for hours (sometimes) to find answers. Sometimes you still may not have found exactly what you were looking for. I was a person that did a ton of reading here. So I learned the threads fairly well over the course of a few years.

b) another member commented that it would be nice if someone organized all of the information about a particular airgun so that the information would be readily accessible. I think it was an AAA Evol thread. Consequently, I believe that the first AGN "Master Thread" was the "All Things Evol - Master Thread." These threads take days to weeks to compile. Often times I'd remember certain things that I read or who posted them so I has a bit of an edge when it came to searching for information.

3) I created the first master thread because after the member mentioned how it would be nice to have this, I pitched an idea or two at AGN staff about the feasibility of better organizing information so that it would be easier for members to locate specific info and have it more readily accessible to them. I think we had different visions on how to accomplish that. When the discussion didn't develop in to a collaborative effort I didn't question the decision. I simply accepted what was explained to me and moved along. That is to say that some things were explained to me. Later the brand labels/tags emerged which are very helpful. Ultimately I decided to compile and organize information on a subject and post it to show that it could be done and to observe how it would be received. The concept has proven beneficial to numerous members and it has also fomented discussion and encouraged troubleshooting by concentrating members who are excited or passionate about particular products or activities into single common threads to exchange thoughts, ideas, and to promote learning.

4) As a repository, a master thread is meant to be a framework of a topic that guides readers to specific information that they are seeking. To get to the specifics or the "meat" of a topic, links are provided for the reader to read further or ask more nuanced questions in linked threads that delve off into more specific areas of the master thread subject. They were never meant to be a catch-all or dump box for lazy members or those that don't do so well using search engines or technology. Consequently, several master threads have devolved into the very thing I wished to avoid. It's almost like getting a text book in grade-school where the previous children wrote and drew all over the pages, didn't cover it, tore pages, etc. All of these things are distracting and can discourage students from wanting to use a particular book (in our case discourage members from using a particular master thread). The problem with dumping questions in the master thread or repeating the same questions that have already been asked and answered in the master thread or ancillary threads is it can make the master threads unnecessarily longer, thus further discouraging members and others from wanting to read through them to find relevant information.

A regular thread can discuss several topics within a single thread. They are a lot more susceptible to members going on off-topic tangents.

5) A question I have received , often sharply, that some people really seem to want an answer to. I monitor and communicate with people within the master threads because I care more about the preservation and access to good information concerning our airguns and airgun related hobbies. I care about that a lot more than how you feel about me suggesting something, asking things of others, or telling others not to do a thing out of respect for the concept of the master thread and for the consideration of others who will come behind us to read AGN threads. I'm thinking years ahead here.

The concept was implemented with the intention of expanding the framework by adding linked threads to the master thread, not to continue discussions that are best carried on in threads that began similar or the same discussion. Reading earlier master threads, I didn't always articulate this clearly. However, I have noticed that a significant portion of members will comment on a thread only reading the last page or the last post. So if you go to a master thread and never read page #1 or post #1 then you are likely clueless as to what this is even supposed to be. One member told me that the title says "ALL THINGS..." in which it did. However, these threads weren't created for entrepreneurial minded individuals as opportunities to litter the threads intermittently with free advertising spots for their products. That's totally unfair to others. If you make something, let us know what you have, leave contact info or a link to further details, and move along. I'm pretty sure your post will remain within the thread as long as it lasts so long as it doesn't violate AGN rules.


Anyhow, I wanted to explain these things that people have asked or may have been wondering. I may not compile another because some of the mess that people come to me with doesn't always feel like it's worth the sacrifice. It's a concept, many of you can do the same or something similar. It's one of those "put up or shut up things." If you don't like something, have you tried offering a solution? No? Then why not try offering something useful or simply be quiet? A few have. Kudos to them. I was glad to see it.


*These are my thoughts on this. If there are typos, I'll fix them later as I find them.
Cool - I never knew all that!
 
@QuarterPint I have mulled over the benefit of locking a Master Thread so that they do not become overrun with superfluous babble and tangential conversation. However, since it’s an open source concept that wouldn’t work so well as technologies and modification are somewhat of a constant evolution. My primary concern was to keep the Master Threads centered upon links to external sources of information, as mentioned in a previous post, from AGN threads to YouTube videos. The series of questions and related questions tend to muck up the Master Threads take away from the conceptual convenience of access to condensed sources of information.

Expertise is not really a question. As the OP of most of these threads, I sort of grade the contents of the threads that I post as either something with enough viable input from reputable sources or members or “meat” or threads that do not. Of course conversation in some of these threads continue after the dates that I post them. The beauty of open sourcing Master Thread content is that the burden of keeping these threads current isn’t solely on the OP. Some manufactures or distributor links go dead, some YouTube videos go private, have age restriction, or become no longer accessible after I post them. For those links, I it an OP would have to edit, the others can be manages be the member that introduced them. As for the accuracy of the information communicated, that’s up to each individual to determine. Since several threads are linked via the Master Threads, the detailed ancillary threads are the best places to flesh out any questions or disagreements on divergent points or perspectives. When doing this sort of reading it helps to focus on facts because when working on an airgun, that’s what helps most. Can I replicate or come close to the stated results posted by “x” member? That’s really a significant portion of the point of a Master Thread, guiding members to that end. Then I also aim to help member further discussions on evolving topics. At the end of the day, the Master Thread is an outline, framework, or hub for information surrounding a specific product (usually an airgun) or topic.

I’m open to discuss further refinement or integration of the Master Thread concept into the AGN forums if that’s what staff desires, but I will not push the issue. I’ve asked, I received a response, and as far as I’m concerned that’s it. I imagine if there is truly a demand, then other members may speak up for what they want and perhaps if it’s something enough people want something may change. I’m not too concerned either way.
Some time ago I started a thread called “ghost collaborative data request“
my intent was to create a single easy to follow database from users for users.
Is this what you’re describing or intended purpose is in your master thread Idea?
 
Some time ago I started a thread called “ghost collaborative data request“
my intent was to create a single easy to follow database from users for users.
Is this what you’re describing or intended purpose is in your master thread Idea?
@cavedweller Pretty much. Just an attempt at a simple thread where members can find links related (most often) to specific airguns because the search results pull up a lot of irrelevant and non-related posts using what appears to be keyword searching. I have refined the process to make categories, then post links and information under the categories so that people can go straight to specific discussions, tutorial, videos, diagrams, questions, answers, etc. I also welcome input from manufactures, distributors, retailers, and their knowledgeable online technicians.

For example, a member wants a Huben GK1, but isn’t sure which caliber to purchase. By using the “Huben GK1 Master Thread” the member can locate the “Ammo” section and start reading f discussions about GK1 calibers and wgat other owners say about which ammo they’re tried. Then they can go back to the Master Thread and find links to authorized dealers selling the GK1. It was not a thread designed to ask “Whats everybody shooting in their GK1 .22?” That question would be best asked in one of the appropriate linked threads under the “Ammo” category.
 
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@QuarterPint I have mulled over the benefit of locking a Master Thread so that they do not become overrun with superfluous babble and tangential conversation. However, since it’s an open source concept that wouldn’t work so well if locked as technologies and modification are somewhat of a constant evolution. My primary concern was to keep the Master Threads centered upon links to external sources of information, as mentioned in a previous post, from AGN threads to YouTube videos. The series of questions and related questions tend to muck up the Master Threads take away from the conceptual convenience of access to condensed sources of information.
I’ve read the cathedral and the bazaar and understand open source quite well.

That said this bazaar we are currently engaged in expanding needs nothing more than the explanation you’ve given above. The only caveat being that, regardless of adding “Master” to the title of a thread, any thread is just that, an open thread. Open to random posts with pictures of dogs or political rhetoric that will potentially cause the mods to lock them. Locked threads often don’t get deleted so how then does new information get added to the Master Thread, I suppose a new Master-er Thread could be started on the topic…Supermaster maybe.

I apologize if this sounds like I am arguing against Master Threads, that is not my intent. My suggestions are strictly musings on shortcomings and how these types of threads could be solidified and strengthened. As an open thread the only thing we as forum users can do is spread the word on your Master Thread idea so that new or infrequent users are encouraged to use them as intended, a springboard for learning and not an actual thread to post into.

I will reiterate my previous statement that this concept is fantastic and streamlines research on specific topics, thank you for starting this.
 
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I’ve read the cathedral and the bazaar and understand open source quite well.

That said this bazaar we are currently engaged in expanding needs nothing more than the explanation you’ve given above. The only caveat being that, regardless of adding “Master” to the title of a thread, any thread is just that, an open thread. Open to random posts with pictures of dogs or political rhetoric that will potentially cause the mods to lock them. Locked threads often don’t get deleted so how then does new information get added to the Master Thread, I suppose a new Master-er Thread could be started on the topic…Supermaster maybe.

I apologize if this sounds like I am arguing against Master Threads, that is not my intent. My suggestions are strictly musings on shortcomings and how these types of threads could be solidified and strengthened. As an open thread the only thing we as forum users can do is spread the word on your Master Thread idea so that new or infrequent users are encouraged to use them as intended, a springboard for learning and not an actual thread to post into.

I will reiterate my previous statement that this concept is fantastic and streamlines research on specific topics, thank you for starting this.
@QuarterPint No apology necessary. I couldn’t think of a way that locking these threads would be beneficial. I have no qualms with what you’ve stated. Discourse that leads to improvement is a good thing.

As to spreading the word to members to stick to the spirit of the thread, I usually state the intent of the thread in the first post or on the first page. So in essence you likely be telling them to read something. A person that doesn’t want to read much or is drawn to shorter posts may not want to. It may be why they didn’t read it in the first place. In the event that they did read it, perhaps reminding them when you see them go off topic, get into redundant questions, using it to socialize, or run up their post count may help. As members utilizing the Master Threads, why not address the issues? I get tired of doing that, but I don’t really take much issue with being the “bad guy,“ but I’m not here to babysit members throughout the day.
 
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