Marauder Semi-Automatic loading discharge issue with Crosman *updated

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I had an incident last night with the Marauder SAM that is forcing me to return it and also share my experience with the boards.

In short, the rifle fired off a pellet during the reloading process without the trigger being pulled and with the trigger safety on. I did not adjust the trigger in any way whatsoever fyi.

In long, the rifle is reloaded by pulling back a spring loaded pellet probe [it does not lock back] and inserting the magazine and then releasing quickly allowing the probe to spring into place and load a pellet. You then push the bolt handle and pellet seater forward to make sure it's all clicked into place. I had done this about 10-15 times in test shooting and testing pellet accuracy. I observed that of the box it was set up to shoot 14-15 grain pellets. Then last night I increased the hammer tension with a 1/4 hex key as the manual directs to shoot some heavier pellets. The HST was not maxed out or within at least two full rotations of being maxed out. I turned it about 4 times from stock to increase the velocity of a jsb 18 from 763 to 813 where turning the spring stopped increasing the velocity. I backed out the spring tension until the velocity started to drop. I loaded about 5 magazines during this process without incident. I was really excited at this point because the rifle was getting 50 shots with the jsb 18 at 28 ft lbs so it stayed quite air-efficient. At this point I'm reloading the final time, the rifle is de-cocked and on safe. I pull back the probe, slide another mag in, relea-POP!!!! I was home alone at the time- which is the only time I shoot anyway so no injuries, pellet ended up on my kitchen floor after bouncing off this and that (I am shooting from inside my house out the back door). The rifle did not auto-cycle to the next pellet but rather the probe got stuck forward in the magazine so it did not cycle. I removed the mag, made sure the barrel was empty, de-cocked and then went looking for the box.

So I don't take it lightly that sharing this experience may stop someone from buying one of these, but as this is a safety issue I don't feel I have a choice.
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Hey,

I’m Phillip Guadalupe the product manager for this rifle. Can you contact me at 585-622-2266 or at [email protected]. I would like to talk to you about this rifle and your experience. 


best regards 

Phillip
Click to expand...

Awesome +1
 
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I had an incident last night with the Marauder SAM that is making me consider returning it and also share my experience with the boards. 

In short, the rifle fired off a pellet during the reloading process without the trigger being pulled and with the trigger safety on. I did not adjust the trigger in any way whatsoever fyi.

In long, the rifle is reloaded by pulling back a spring loaded pellet probe [it does not lock back] and inserting the magazine and then releasing quickly allowing the probe to spring into place and load a pellet. You then push the bolt handle and pellet seater forward to make sure it's all clicked into place. I had done this about 10-15 times in test shooting and testing pellet accuracy. I observed that of the box it was set up to shoot 14-15 grain pellets. Then last night I increased the hammer tension with a 1/4 hex key as the manual directs to shoot some heavier pellets. The HST was not maxed out or within at least two full rotations of being maxed out. I turned it about 4 times from stock to increase the velocity of a jsb 18 from 763 to 813 where turning the spring stopped increasing the velocity. I backed out the spring tension until the velocity started to drop. I loaded about 5 magazines during this process without incident. I was really excited at this point because the rifle was getting 50 shots with the jsb 18 at 28 ft lbs so it stayed quite air-efficient. At this point I'm reloading the final time, the rifle is de-cocked and on safe. I pull back the probe, slide another mag in, relea-POP!!!! I was home alone at the time- which is the only time I shoot anyway so no injuries, pellet ended up on my kitchen floor after bouncing off this and that (I am shooting from inside my house out the back door). The rifle did not auto-cycle to the next pellet but rather the probe got stuck forward in the magazine so it did not cycle. I removed the mag, made sure the barrel was empty, de-cocked and then went looking for the box.

*Edit - As you can see in the thread below Crosman reached out and to connect with me and discuss the mechanics of what happened with that they believe likely happened. I'm just a guy who bought an airgun but ended up on a conference call with two of the inventors/designers of the rifle- pretty neat. The issue was pretty quickly determined to be a "slam fire" that, due to the nature of the hammer, had enough juice to launch the pellet out of the barrel. It was not a full discharge. This explains why the pellet probe got stuck in the mag, there was no gas from the discharge to propel it back. One thing they explained at length is that this can only happen when the rifle is de-cocked. Over the phone I got walked through the trigger mechanism to demonstrate how to feel whether the rifle is cocked. Basically the point is that when the rifle is de-cocked you need to pull back on the charging handle until you hear an audible "click", and this requires a good amount of force compared to a standard marauder, once it clicks you can feel the pressure let off, Crosman said that this is the engagement of the trigger sear- and after that nothing can happen unless the trigger is pulled. If you didn't hear the click and aren't fully cocked, you will notice that sliding the handle forward has a distinct two-stage feel, where if the rifle is cocked property the handle will slide forward smoothly like floating in oil. So there's nothing wrong with my rifle and nothing unsafe about this platform, which these guys took two full years of their time to develop and you can hear their pride in it.


I would just advise people looking at this model that when it is loaded from the de-cocked position, it can slam fire with decent enough force to propel a pellet out of the barrel, so either pay special attention to the full motion of the charging handle, don't decock the gun, or better yet cock the gun and THEN load the magazine. When its cocked, this can't happen, no matter how many times you sling the charging handle forward.

I hope this was helpful to everyone and they appreciate that a cool tight-knit community where the guys who make these rifles are so responsible and accessible.





Click to expand...

Mark, 

Thank you for taking the time to talk. I'm grateful for the feedback and glad to know you will be keeping the rifle. The airgun community is definitely a tight-nit community. Just know they people like me at Velocity Outdoors are always paying attention and listening to our customers.

For those who are following you can see Mark's update edit below or in his original post....



Best regards,

Phillip Guadalupe

*Edit - As you can see in the thread below Crosman reached out and to connect with me and discuss the mechanics of what happened with that they believe likely happened. I'm just a guy who bought an airgun but ended up on a conference call with two of the inventors/designers of the rifle- pretty neat. The issue was pretty quickly determined to be a "slam fire" that, due to the nature of the hammer, had enough juice to launch the pellet out of the barrel. It was not a full discharge. This explains why the pellet probe got stuck in the mag, there was no gas from the discharge to propel it back. One thing they explained at length is that this can only happen when the rifle is de-cocked. Over the phone I got walked through the trigger mechanism to demonstrate how to feel whether the rifle is cocked. Basically the point is that when the rifle is de-cocked you need to pull back on the charging handle until you hear an audible "click", and this requires a good amount of force compared to a standard marauder, once it clicks you can feel the pressure let off, Crosman said that this is the engagement of the trigger sear- and after that nothing can happen unless the trigger is pulled. If you didn't hear the click and aren't fully cocked, you will notice that sliding the handle forward has a distinct two-stage feel, where if the rifle is cocked property the handle will slide forward smoothly like floating in oil. So there's nothing wrong with my rifle and nothing unsafe about this platform, which these guys took two full years of their time to develop and you can hear their pride in it.


I would just advise people looking at this model that when it is loaded from the de-cocked position, it can slam fire with decent enough force to propel a pellet out of the barrel, so either pay special attention to the full motion of the charging handle, don't decock the gun, or better yet cock the gun and THEN load the magazine. When its cocked, this can't happen, no matter how many times you sling the charging handle forward.

I hope this was helpful to everyone and they appreciate that a cool tight-knit community where the guys who make these rifles are so responsible and accessible.
 
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This is good to see, a quick response AND a satisfactory resolution. Happy to see that Phillip and Crosman are keeping an eye out on the forums. I have a Marauder in Semi-Auto which I got two weeks ago from PA. I am very happy with the gun, even though I am not in love with the trigger, which is more like one very long (but smooth) single stage. I am going to try adjusting that to see if it makes any difference. 



One question I would love to see answered is when can I buy some additional magazines. So far all I have is the one magazine which came with the gun. Unfortunately the magazines from my regular bolt action Marauder do not work consistently.



Chris
 
Upvote 0
This is good to see, a quick response AND a satisfactory resolution. Happy to see that Phillip and Crosman are keeping an eye out on the forums. I have a Marauder in Semi-Auto which I got two weeks ago from PA. I am very happy with the gun, even though I am not in love with the trigger, which is more like one very long (but smooth) single stage. I am going to try adjusting that to see if it makes any difference. 



One question I would love to see answered is when can I buy some additional magazines. So far all I have is the one magazine which came with the gun. Unfortunately the magazines from my regular bolt action Marauder do not work consistently.



Chris
Click to expand...

If it fits and works sometimes you can add more wound spring tension by poking a relocated spring anchor hole in back magazine plate perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 maybe even 1/2 circle away to add more prewound spring tension or chop the spring shorter and make a new bend but by cutting it will make it non reversible like the first way you can set it back to original.
 
Upvote 0
This is good to see, a quick response AND a satisfactory resolution. Happy to see that Phillip and Crosman are keeping an eye out on the forums. I have a Marauder in Semi-Auto which I got two weeks ago from PA. I am very happy with the gun, even though I am not in love with the trigger, which is more like one very long (but smooth) single stage. I am going to try adjusting that to see if it makes any difference. 



One question I would love to see answered is when can I buy some additional magazines. So far all I have is the one magazine which came with the gun. Unfortunately the magazines from my regular bolt action Marauder do not work consistently.



Chris
Click to expand...

If it fits and works sometimes you can add more wound spring tension by poking a relocated spring anchor hole in back magazine plate perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 maybe even 1/2 circle away to add more prewound spring tension or chop the spring shorter and make a new bend but by cutting it will make it non reversible like the first way you can set it back to original.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe I'll try this, plus the suggestion to use lighter pellets. I've got a bunch of .22 Marauder mags, so even if I screw up one or two it would be worth it to get even one additional one to work. I also wondered about the oval opening on the front (transparent) part of the mag. The new SAM mags have a single round hole, not an oval. i wonder if closing off the oval would help.
 
Upvote 0
This is good to see, a quick response AND a satisfactory resolution. Happy to see that Phillip and Crosman are keeping an eye out on the forums. I have a Marauder in Semi-Auto which I got two weeks ago from PA. I am very happy with the gun, even though I am not in love with the trigger, which is more like one very long (but smooth) single stage. I am going to try adjusting that to see if it makes any difference. 



One question I would love to see answered is when can I buy some additional magazines. So far all I have is the one magazine which came with the gun. Unfortunately the magazines from my regular bolt action Marauder do not work consistently.



Chris
Click to expand...

I will have to look to see what we have in stock. You may be able to buy the mag as a part from customer service if they are available. I would say next month they will available in retail. Just waiting on packaging. 
 
Upvote 0
This is good to see, a quick response AND a satisfactory resolution. Happy to see that Phillip and Crosman are keeping an eye out on the forums. I have a Marauder in Semi-Auto which I got two weeks ago from PA. I am very happy with the gun, even though I am not in love with the trigger, which is more like one very long (but smooth) single stage. I am going to try adjusting that to see if it makes any difference. 



One question I would love to see answered is when can I buy some additional magazines. So far all I have is the one magazine which came with the gun. Unfortunately the magazines from my regular bolt action Marauder do not work consistently.



Chris
Click to expand...

If it fits and works sometimes you can add more wound spring tension by poking a relocated spring anchor hole in back magazine plate perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 maybe even 1/2 circle away to add more prewound spring tension or chop the spring shorter and make a new bend but by cutting it will make it non reversible like the first way you can set it back to original.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe I'll try this, plus the suggestion to use lighter pellets. I've got a bunch of .22 Marauder mags, so even if I screw up one or two it would be worth it to get even one additional one to work. I also wondered about the oval opening on the front (transparent) part of the mag. The new SAM mags have a single round hole, not an oval. i wonder if closing off the oval would help.
Click to expand...

I will say that is exactly what we did in the beginning. Tapped a new hole for the spring to increase tension for a quick proof of concept. It will work but you have to be careful of. Or putting too much because it could cause the spring to pop out the hole from too much tension which is why we went to a new spring to do exactly what the proof of concept did. 


the single hole helps prevent jamming up the mag since it functions as a blow back action. The air can sometimes blow the next pellet out of position and jam it up. It doesn’t happen often but it can happen. Which is why we changed it. We didn’t want the gun to get jammed up if it was just a simple change in the loading of the mag. In my opinion the inconvenience of loading the 1st pellet from the opposite site outweighs dealing with a jam on the gun. 
 
Upvote 0
This is good to see, a quick response AND a satisfactory resolution. Happy to see that Phillip and Crosman are keeping an eye out on the forums. I have a Marauder in Semi-Auto which I got two weeks ago from PA. I am very happy with the gun, even though I am not in love with the trigger, which is more like one very long (but smooth) single stage. I am going to try adjusting that to see if it makes any difference. 



One question I would love to see answered is when can I buy some additional magazines. So far all I have is the one magazine which came with the gun. Unfortunately the magazines from my regular bolt action Marauder do not work consistently.



Chris
Click to expand...

If it fits and works sometimes you can add more wound spring tension by poking a relocated spring anchor hole in back magazine plate perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 maybe even 1/2 circle away to add more prewound spring tension or chop the spring shorter and make a new bend but by cutting it will make it non reversible like the first way you can set it back to original.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe I'll try this, plus the suggestion to use lighter pellets. I've got a bunch of .22 Marauder mags, so even if I screw up one or two it would be worth it to get even one additional one to work. I also wondered about the oval opening on the front (transparent) part of the mag. The new SAM mags have a single round hole, not an oval. i wonder if closing off the oval would help.
Click to expand...

I will say that is exactly what we did in the beginning. Tapped a new hole for the spring to increase tension for a quick proof of concept. It will work but you have to be careful of. Or putting too much because it could cause the spring to pop out the hole from too much tension which is why we went to a new spring to do exactly what the proof of concept did. 


the single hole helps prevent jamming up the mag since it functions as a blow back action. The air can sometimes blow the next pellet out of position and jam it up. It doesn’t happen often but it can happen. Which is why we changed it. We didn’t want the gun to get jammed up if it was just a simple change in the loading of the mag. In my opinion the inconvenience of loading the 1st pellet from the opposite site outweighs dealing with a jam on the gun.
Click to expand...

Phillip, thanks for the follow up. I would love to buy another 5-6 magazines so if customer service can seek it as a part please let me know (by PM if necessary) I don’t care about the retail packaging at all. I’ll try on one of my existing .22 mags in the interim to see if I can get it to work consistently, but ideally i would prefer just to get new ones.



Chris
 
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That alternate spring anchor hole MUST BE TIGHT FIT of course it's gonna wanna pop out LoL!

Use a small needle heated on a flame to poke a hole and chase it with the spring anchor that will be sorta melted in secure!

THEN! Take that clear cover and put-tape on the outer face real good cover that oval hole and pour good epoxy or fiberglass resin mixed perfect to fill then let dry then drill a perfect hole in the right spot. Too big no good! Smaller the better! Be sure to FIRST Sand the inside of that oval and clean with alcohol! Messed up? Drill too big or off to the side then tape it and epoxy and go at it again.

Eyeball where you have to make that hole while the magazine is still together take a picture so you know where to drill if you must.

You got the other ONE SAM magazine on hand to use as a guide to copy.


 
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Good Morning All - My name is John and I am one of the lead engineers on the SAM project.

You can use a standard mag if you are ok with it not cycling 100% of the time. Using a standard mag may not provide you with the best accuracy either. The new SAM mags (and all new 22 cal Mrod mags) have an updated mag housing. We added some stabilization feet and adjusted where the pellet sits in the mag. This helps with the loading. 

You can increase the spring tension by moving it to a new hole in the mag housing. It may cycle better but still not be as good as the SAM mags.

I am glad we were able to resolve this quickly and make a customer happy again.

John


 
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Good Morning All - My name is John and I am one of the lead engineers on the SAM project.

You can use a standard mag if you are ok with it not cycling 100% of the time. Using a standard mag may not provide you with the best accuracy either. The new SAM mags (and all new 22 cal Mrod mags) have an updated mag housing. We added some stabilization feet and adjusted where the pellet sits in the mag. This helps with the loading. 

You can increase the spring tension by moving it to a new hole in the mag housing. It may cycle better but still not be as good as the SAM mags.

I am glad we were able to resolve this quickly and make a customer happy again.

John

Click to expand...

Awesome customer service! Thanks for the info
 
Upvote 0
Good Morning All - My name is John and I am one of the lead engineers on the SAM project.

The new SAM mags (and all new 22 cal Mrod mags) have an updated mag housing. We added some stabilization feet and adjusted where the pellet sits in the mag. This helps with the loading. 

You can increase the spring tension by moving it to a new hole in the mag housing. It may cycle better but still not be as good as the SAM mags.

I am glad we were able to resolve this quickly and make a customer happy again.

John

Click to expand...

Hey John, I just received two .22 Marauder Magazines I ordered this past Sunday (Aug 30th) direct from Crosman when they came back in stock. The packaging is marked "NEW", but they contain the old style magazines with the larger oval opening in the clear cover. I was expecting a couple of the new style magazines that will work in the SAM. Is there going to be some sort of designation so we know we are ordering the correct magazines? I'm guessing these won't work with the SAM, so I'm not sure what I should do with them...

IMG_9245.1599180200.jpg


IMG_9246.1599180215.jpg

 
Upvote 0
Good Morning All - My name is John and I am one of the lead engineers on the SAM project.

The new SAM mags (and all new 22 cal Mrod mags) have an updated mag housing. We added some stabilization feet and adjusted where the pellet sits in the mag. This helps with the loading. 

You can increase the spring tension by moving it to a new hole in the mag housing. It may cycle better but still not be as good as the SAM mags.

I am glad we were able to resolve this quickly and make a customer happy again.

John

Click to expand...

Hey John, I just received two .22 Marauder Magazines I ordered this past Sunday (Aug 30th) direct from Crosman when they came back in stock. The packaging is marked "NEW", but they contain the old style magazines with the larger oval opening in the clear cover. I was expecting a couple of the new style magazines that will work in the SAM. Is there going to be some sort of designation so we know we are ordering the correct magazines? I'm guessing these won't work with the SAM, so I'm not sure what I should do with them...

IMG_9245.1599180200.jpg


IMG_9246.1599180215.jpg
Click to expand...

Thats just the original package and it was never updated to remove the new. The SAM mag will have its own sku and should be available next month. 
 
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