Many of you will not like this !... My previous findings confirm it is a fact !!!

[Stubbers]

I would like that a very good EBR shooter could make some groups with a sidewinder.

If me, being a common sinner and just a hunter was able to make that group at 80 yards shooting from my rotating rest, I would like to know how good the groups can be shooting from a bipod by a good shooter.

I think that will take some time, many of these EBR shooters are seasoned and have many hours clocked into a certain setup and probably due to that are reluctant to change over, but in time lets hope! Keep in mind your findings may very well be subjective and not 100% objective.

-Matt

 

[Emu]

I think that will take some time, many of these EBR shooters are seasoned and have many hours clocked into a certain setup and probably due to that are reluctant to change over, but in time lets hope! Keep in mind your findings may very well be subjective and not 100% objective.

-Matt

To hit or to miss, those are the possibilities. No more !!

 

[AirNGasman]

 

[bivy53]

I read this entire thread all the way through (yawn!). Here’s MY bottom line, and to paraphrase what op said at the start , some of y’all ain’t gunna like it. If I can tune my sub$500 rifles to shoot +/- moa at 100yds, and every bit as good as the targets he posted at 80( I have two that will), then why would I even consider spending well over $2000 other than to say I had? Yes, you can buy “inherent” accuracy, but if you are not a shooter then what’s the point? I say learn your gun, which ever one you own, and go out and have fun. I have busted clay birds at 140 with these same guns. Maybe it’s the 60+yrs of shooting powder burners that got me there. ( Avenger .22 and CPHP’s. The two holes on the left were sighters)

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I read this entire thread all the way through (yawn!). Here’s MY bottom line, and to paraphrase what op said at the start , some of y’all ain’t gunna like it. If I can tune my sub$500 rifles to shoot +/- moa at 100yds, and every bit as good as the targets he posted at 80( I have two that will), then why would I even consider spending well over $2000 other than to say I had? Yes, you can buy “inherent” accuracy, but if you are not a shooter then what’s the point? I say learn your gun, which ever one you own, and go out and have fun. I have busted clay birds at 140 with these same guns. Maybe it’s the 60+yrs of shooting powder burners that got me there.View attachment 363966( Avenger .22 and CPHP’s. The two holes on the left were sighters)

I was going to chime in and say that, other than his 25 group at 80, my Kral 25 jumbo walks all over that 80 yard 22 group with standard ole baracuda 31s.

It's tighter than the 25 too.

Thank God I didn't buy a gimmick gun.

Not being a DYCK, but if you want to get on here and tell us our guns are inferior because they have a hammer and spring, then pist those groups, you better have a fire extinguisher.

Also, I swear I went to lunch and there were 2 pages on this, now 5... think the hornets nest has been poked.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I'll put up so I don't get flamed. Here is my jumbo 25 cal shooting hades on the left and baracuda on the right. 52 fpe tune. This is shot off a bipod with the rifle shouldered at 75 yards lasered.

The flier on the baracuda was all on me and boy did that piss me off. 10 shot groups. Also, my gun has a hammer and TWO springs. It's not super harsh, but it isn't the smoothest shot cycle either. It's needs a hard thwack to open the 300 BAR bottle.

 

[Emu]

I was going to chime in and say that, other than his 25 group at 80, my Kral 25 jumbo walks all over that 80 yard 22 group with standard ole baracuda 31s.

It's tighter than the 25 too.

Thank God I didn't buy a gimmick gun.

Not being a DYCK, but if you want to get on here and tell us our guns are inferior because they have a hammer and spring, then pist those groups, you better have a fire extinguisher.

Also, I swear I went to lunch and there were 2 pages on this, now 5... think the hornets nest has been poked.

" (...) but if you want to get on here and tell us our guns are inferior because they have a hammer and spring (...)"

All of my PCP air rifles, except the sidewinders, also have spring and hammer !!!

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

" (...) but if you want to get on here and tell us our guns are inferior because they have a hammer and spring (...)"

All of my PCP air rifles, except the sidewinders, also have spring and hammer !!!

Ok, that's fine, then maybe clarify on why you chose to imply they're inferior. Maybe it's the language barrier and translation, genuinely asking. You obviously got everyone in a pretty good uproar.

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

Ok, that's fine, then maybe clarify on why you chose to imply they're inferior. Maybe it's the language barrier and translation, genuinely asking. You obviously got everyone in a pretty good uproar.

@Emu didn't it was others who derailed it, there was a good discussion going with him and I do believe its a language barrier thing so we all gotta take it with a few grains of salt thats all.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

@Emu didn't it was others who derailed it, there was a good discussion going with him and I do believe its a language barrier thing so we all gotta take it with a few grains of salt thats all.

Copy that. I didn't read 2.5 pages in the middle either. I need to stop skimming so much, but alot of it is repetitive responses. Apologies.

 

[Stubbers]

Ok, that's fine, then maybe clarify on why you chose to imply they're inferior. Maybe it's the language barrier and translation, genuinely asking. You obviously got everyone in a pretty good uproar.

"" The difference among a really good rifle with a spring and hammer system vs. a rifle with the system of the Sidewinder is comparable with the difference in consistency among a really good brake barrel rifle and a very good PCP with spring and hammer system.""

From OP, I take that as reduced lock time and/or reduced recoil from the shot cycle, hence my sentiments earlier that received its own flaming, the internet can be so strange lol...

-Matt

 

[weevil]

Copy that. I didn't read 2.5 pages in the middle either. I need to stop skimming so much, but alot of it is repetitive responses. Apologies.

I read it like CT too and I know you to be a reasonable fellow with the caveat that I’m not a starling or squirrel. Emu is effusive and perhaps over-enthusiastic to some. Last I read from him, he was posting his “final conclusions” about PCPs, but here we are!

 

[weevil]

My k1 was similar, the .25 k1 loved 33.95 at 955 , that is what I made it to finals with at NAC

This is also a K1 25, but even with Hades at 925 (the only other pellet and it’s minimum working speed), it’s too much power for the owner to use in his yard. Strangest airgun experience to date!

Anyway, Emu, how does the sidewinder do with lower power levels?

 

[Emu]

This is also a K1 25, but even with Hades at 925 (the only other pellet and it’s minimum working speed), it’s too much power for the owner to use in his yard. Strangest airgun experience to date!

Anyway, Emu, how does the sidewinder do with lower power levels?

I have not lowered the power. I do not like to play a lot with tunning.

I may not answer that.

 

[orangeokie]

Dear hobbie partners,

I know that what I am about to say will not like many of you. I apologize for that. My intention is not to offend any of you nor any of the air rifle makers.

This s morning I walk up early and went to shoot at 190 yards with no wind at all.

First I shot about 60 shots with the Wolverine HP HR .22 Cal.

Later on I shot about 15 shots with the sidewinder .25 Cal.

Some shots of the Wolverine hit a little bit up and some a little bit high and some on target. That difference is because of the really differences causes by the hit of the hammer to open the valve to realease air to move the pellet.

All of the shots with the sidewinder were exactly accurate in power at 190 yards. The consistency is remarkable.

This are now the hard words:

" The difference among a really good rifle with a spring and hammer system vs. a rifle with the system of the Sidewinder is comparable with the difference in consistency among a really good brake barrel rifle and a very good PCP with spring and hammer system."

That big !!!

So, in order to conquest with precision shooting at very long distance, the short way is shooting with a rifle with the system of the sidewinder !

Oooor..... You can shoot and waste as many pellets as you want in order to confirm it by your self....

We’ll see what happens on the competition circuit. Cream rises to the top!

 

[bivy53]

Something I have noticed is the majority, it seems to me, of guns for sale in the classifieds tend to be higher end price wise. That also makes me question the validity of “more money = better gun”. I’m probably just full of crap, as I have only ever owned one really expensive firearm. Swedish made Husqvarna 30.06. Got it in a trade that was more of a holdup on my part. B E A UTIFUL gun that shoots just as nice as my old Savage. Much prettier though, and 5 times the price if I had to purchase it. I must admit, that Sidewinder is better looking than my Avenger!(my Cayden is a real looker though)

 

[AlanMcD]

I'll offer up a counter thought to Emu's theory - I think it is more the specific barrel and the harmonics from the tune that are the reason than the lock time or anything such as that related to the firing valve mechanisms . . . .

I say that having a .22 Huben that is very accurate in the big scheme of things, but the most accurate shooter I have is a .22 Daystate Air Ranger that left the factory in a 50 FPE configuration, but that I have tuned down to about 30 FPE. This gun is more accurate than my Huben, a purpose built benchrest Bottled .22 Marauder (with dual regulators and a WAR valve for an insanely tight ES and an LW Poly barrel) and another regulated Marauder with a Jim Gaska barrel - but here is the thing: with this Air Ranger being a detuned 50 FPE gun, it is running a +100 gram hammer with reduced spring loads, and thus is the slowest lock time gun of the bunch (with the Huben being the fastest). But it out shoots all the others in terms of ultimate accuracy on paper. The ergonomics are great on it too, so I'm sure that helps a lot as well. And it also does not fire out the magazine, which does reduce a source of variability (that I'll admit does not seem to impact Emu's Sidewinder much - but a full mag group might be interesting; my Huben does about 0.85" ctc at 55 yards over the 19 sots).

Bottom line - it is not just about the air firing mechanism. Every gun's barrel is unique, and when you find a great one, never let it go . . .

With that, I am done and have no intention of getting swept up in the pissing match going on within this post . . .

 

[Stubbers]

I'll offer up a counter thought to Emu's theory - I think it is more the specific barrel and the harmonics from the tune that are the reason than the lock time or anything such as that related to the firing valve mechanisms . . . .

I say that having a .22 Huben that is very accurate in the big scheme of things, but the most accurate shooter I have is a .22 Daystate Air Ranger that left the factory in a 50 FPE configuration, but that I have tuned down to about 30 FPE. This gun is more accurate than my Huben, a purpose built benchrest Bottled .22 Marauder (with dual regulators and a WAR valve for an insanely tight ES and an LW Poly barrel) and another regulated Marauder with a Jim Gaska barrel - but here is the thing: with this Air Ranger being a detuned 50 FPE gun, it is running a +100 gram hammer with reduced spring loads, and thus is the slowest lock time gun of the bunch (with the Huben being the fastest). But it out shoots all the others in terms of ultimate accuracy on paper. The ergonomics are great on it too, so I'm sure that helps a lot as well. An d it also does not fire out the magazine, which does reduce a source of variability (that I'll admit does not seem to impact Emu's Sidewinder much - but a full mag group might be interesting; my Huben does about 0.85" ctc at 55 yards).

Bottom line - it is not just about the air firing mechanism. Every gun's barrel is unique, and when you find a great one, never let it go . . .

With that, I am done and have no intention of getting swept up in the pissing match going on within this post . . .

Great counter points, I personally lean towards it being as Emu suggests, with the caveat that it being subjective based on his shooting style / hold.

Some people naturally flinch or twitch pulling a trigger (in prepartation for the blast ahead believe it or not) or don't have as smooth as a trigger pull and follow through as others.

-Matt

 

[Emu]

Great counter points, I personally lean towards it being as Emu suggests, with the caveat that it being subjective based on his shooting style / hold.

Some people naturally flinch or twitch pulling a trigger (in prepartation for the blast ahead believe it or not) or don't have as smooth as a trigger pull and follow through as others.

-Matt

There are many sponsors that would be much more comfortable with whatever theory than recognizing that the Hubens, LCS and Sidewinder system is better in any aspect than the spring and hammer mechanism.

As in politics they would have "lovists" to convince buyers that that possiblity is not real.

Those of us that do not have an economical interest in if that advantage is real or not, would appreciate to let us get to a scientific conclusion for the benefit of our hobbie.

 

[GA_LeadHead]

Sorry, had to break the tension. Life is too short to get this serious over an air rifle guys. Shoot what you want. Have fun. They are all awesome.