Manufacturer listed ballistic coefficient

I don't know much about Strelok, having never used it. I did download the free version years ago, and I have read where purpose drag laws can be loaded into it. I can provide a table of Cd versus Mach number for the SLG0 drag law, or it can be obtained from the GPC ballistics software on their website. Its ultimate accuracy has still to be proved, though initial reports were favourable.
I've got Mero on Android but can't get to the SLG0 drag table. Is it possible, or would need to extract from the desktop Windows app?
 
I've got Mero on Android but can't get to the SLG0 drag table. Is it possible, or would need to extract from the desktop Windows app?
Here is the SLG0 reference drag law in its current form. It is based on an average calculated drag I created based on wind tunnel data.

Mach​
SLG0​
(Cd.ref)​
0.000​
0.210​
0.045​
0.205​
0.089​
0.201​
0.134​
0.198​
0.179​
0.195​
0.223​
0.194​
0.268​
0.193​
0.313​
0.194​
0.357​
0.197​
0.402​
0.200​
0.446​
0.204​
0.491​
0.208​
0.536​
0.212​
0.580​
0.217​
0.625​
0.222​
0.670​
0.227​
0.714​
0.234​
0.759​
0.240​
0.804​
0.246​
0.848​
0.252​
0.893​
0.269​
0.938​
0.323​
0.982​
0.453​
1.027​
0.614​
 
Here is the SLG0 reference drag law in its current form. It is based on an average calculated drag I created based on wind tunnel data.

Mach​
SLG0​
(Cd.ref)​
0.000​
0.210​
0.045​
0.205​
0.089​
0.201​
0.134​
0.198​
0.179​
0.195​
0.223​
0.194​
0.268​
0.193​
0.313​
0.194​
0.357​
0.197​
0.402​
0.200​
0.446​
0.204​
0.491​
0.208​
0.536​
0.212​
0.580​
0.217​
0.625​
0.222​
0.670​
0.227​
0.714​
0.234​
0.759​
0.240​
0.804​
0.246​
0.848​
0.252​
0.893​
0.269​
0.938​
0.323​
0.982​
0.453​
1.027​
0.614​
Thank you for this! Do you have any idea how it compares, BC wise, to G1? Like, is there a ballpark I could start at to verify the dope?
 
Below is a comparison of G1 and SLG0. You can see that between Mach 0.5 and Mach 0.8 the values are very similar, so should give much the same BC at those speeds (roughly 550-880 ft/sec). At higher speeds, using G1 will tend to give a rising BC, SLG0 should not do that.

1708356867598.png
 
There may be a bug in the feature in Strelok (can't clone standard drag functions), but you can get around it. Go to the drag function selection screen, long press one of the Sierra or Berger functions, and choose Clone. Then long press the clone and Edit with the table data for SLG0.
Well I went and actually tried this... Problem is I don't see a way in the UI to add more rows to the table :/ Sigh... probably need to email the developer.
 
Sounds like maybe starting out with a slightly lower BC for SLG0 then. Is this drag law appropriate for round nose slugs like the Altaros design, or is it better to stick with G1? Or even RA4?
SLG0 is not really for round nose slugs, it was developed for slugs with large meplats. RA4 should be better unless they have a boattail where there is SLG1, though this is totally unproven, or, for very low drag designs, G7
 
I don't know much about Strelok, having never used it. I did download the free version years ago, and I have read where purpose drag laws can be loaded into it. I can provide a table of Cd versus Mach number for the SLG0 drag law, or it can be obtained from the GPC ballistics software on their website. Its ultimate accuracy has still to be proved, though initial reports were favourable.

I downloaded the desktop version of MERO, but I don't see where I can extract the drag models. Do I need to be looking at a different GPC app?
 
Here is the SLG0 reference drag law in its current form. It is based on an average calculated drag I created based on wind tunnel data.

Mach​
SLG0​
(Cd.ref)​
0.000​
0.210​
0.045​
0.205​
0.089​
0.201​
0.134​
0.198​
0.179​
0.195​
0.223​
0.194​
0.268​
0.193​
0.313​
0.194​
0.357​
0.197​
0.402​
0.200​
0.446​
0.204​
0.491​
0.208​
0.536​
0.212​
0.580​
0.217​
0.625​
0.222​
0.670​
0.227​
0.714​
0.234​
0.759​
0.240​
0.804​
0.246​
0.848​
0.252​
0.893​
0.269​
0.938​
0.323​
0.982​
0.453​
1.027​
0.614​


Miles,

THANK YOU so much for this. I can use this now in Strelok Pro.

And thanks for the instruction you offer us — this is all exciting stuff!

Matthias 😃
 
There may be a bug in the feature in Strelok (can't clone standard drag functions), but you can get around it. Go to the drag function selection screen, long press one of the Sierra or Berger functions, and choose Clone. Then long press the clone and Edit with the table data for SLG0.


Erik,

I have noticed the same bug in Strelok Pro.
And worked around it. I use a Sierra or Berger drag law with enough rows (careful some have way too many rows).

However, I get weird results for my trajectories. So, still not working, I think.



★ The next approach would be to export my custom rifles and drag functions from Strelok (emailed to my computer) — in order to edit them in Excel (or similar).

I havent tried that just yet....


Please keep us updated of your progress. Thanks.

Matthias 😊
 
....from Strelok (emailed to my computer) — in order to edit them in Excel (or similar)...😊
Tell me how emailing worked on your machine, because on my droid tablet the Strelok 7.1.6 don't have any other option but only sink to dropbox. Yes, I had to make a dropbox account first and export up there to the clouds and then download to my PC... and now I don't have excell but OpenOffice thingies... ;(
 
Miles,

I have a general question about how the cd values of the different drag laws relate to each other.


For example, cd (=drag) values at mach 0.8 — around 900fps — from several drag model in comparison — sorted from low cd to high cd:

0.2330 — RA4 (22LR bullet)
0.2362 — WC₀ (airgun wadcutter)
0.2411 — GA (airgun domes)
0.2460 — SLG₀ (airgun slug w/ meplat)
0.2546 — G1
0.6985 — GS (spherical round ball)
0.9303 — GC (plain cylinder)


In my ignorance I interpret this as follows:
Conclusion 🅐: "Of all of the listed reference projetiles, the 22LR bullet (of the RA4 drag model) has the lowest cd value (= the lowest absolute drag [at 900fps]).
"That means it has the least drop, and the least wind drift.
"In other words the most aerodynamical projectile of these (at 900fps) is the 22LR bullet."
Correct?

So far, so good.

Conclusion 🅑: "Wadcutters are second on the list and are therefore almost as aerodynamic as LR22 bullets — and have much less drag (at 900fps!) than a domed pellet or airgun slug."
Correct?

Conclusion 🅒: "Airgun domed pellets have less drag at 900fps than the G1 type bullet (pointed slug)."
Correct?

Conclusion 🅓: "The plain cylinder has an atrociously high drag — four times as high as a wadcutter.
"The drag seems so bad (so high!), it should almost be impossible to make a cylinder fly through the air, unless it was self-propelled by some engine/propellant."

"But... — JSB sells a flying cylinder (that admittedly has not totally straight walls but is wearing a mini-skirt) — and where a conscious tester measured a respectable BC (GA) of 0.022 and 0.027 (medium and high velocity, ChairGun, 31y, 50y, atmo incl., ). — So, against the terrible drag values of a cylinder, this cylinder seems to fly quite well...."

Mmmm.... —
It seems I'm reading something into the cd values that is not there.... 🤷🏻‍♂️
Projectiles.  JSB.  UltraShock Heavy.  22cal.  25.39gr.jpg



🔴 What I really want:
A table and/or graph of absolute drag values — probably something I would need to test or calculate myself(?):
With that table/graph I want to compare the absolute drop & drift propensity of say, a .30cal 55gr dome, with a .25 26gr hollow point, with a .22 18.80gr wadcutter — at say 700fps and 900fps.


I'm sensing I'm missing an important factor here somewhere....

Help me out!

Matthias 😊
 
Last edited:
Tell me how emailing worked on your machine, because on my droid tablet the Strelok 7.1.6 don't have any other option but only sink to dropbox. Yes, I had to make a dropbox account first and export up there to the clouds and then download to my PC... and now I don't have excell but OpenOffice thingies... ;(


Attila,

you're right — no emailing directly:
It's either Dropbox, or GoogleDrive, or another type of "box", or save it in the folder where the Strelok data is saved, here (Android):
/storage/emulated/0/Android/data/com.borisov.strelokpro

You can than share those files via email, or bluetooth.


However, I can only see the backup files that Strelok delivered to that folder.
But I cannot see the rifle files and drag function files, etc....

Matthias
 
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Miles,

I have a general question about how the cd values of the different drag laws relate to each other.


For example, cd (=drag) values at mach 0.8 — around 900fps — from several drag model in comparison — sorted from low cd to high cd:

0.2330 — RA4 (22LR bullet)
0.2362 — WC₀ (airgun wadcutter)
0.2411 — GA (airgun domes)
0.2460 — SLG₀ (airgun slug w/ meplat)
0.2546 — G1
0.6985 — GS (spherical round ball)
0.9303 — GC (plain cylinder)


In my ignorance I interpret this as follows:
Conclusion 🅐: "Of all of the listed reference projetiles, the 22LR bullet (of the RA4 drag model) has the lowest cd value (= the lowest absolute drag [at 900fps]).
"That means it has the least drop, and the least wind drift.
"In other words the most aerodynamical projectile of these (at 900fps) is the 22LR bullet."
Correct?

So far, so good.

Conclusion 🅑: "Wadcutters are second on the list and are therefore almost as aerodynamic as LR22 bullets — and have much less drag (at 900fps!) than a domed pellet or airgun slug."
Correct?

Conclusion 🅒: "Airgun domed pellets have less drag at 900fps than the G1 type bullet (pointed slug)."
Correct?

Conclusion 🅓: "The plain cylinder has an atrociously high drag — four times as high as a wadcutter.
"The drag seems so bad (so high!), it should almost be impossible to make a cylinder fly through the air, unless it was self-propelled by some engine/propellant."

"But... — JSB sells a flying cylinder (that admittedly has not totally straight walls but is wearing a mini-skirt) — and where a conscious tester measured a respectable BC (GA) of 0.022 and 0.027 (medium and high velocity, ChairGun, 31y, 50y, atmo incl., ). — So, against the terrible drag values of a cylinder, this cylinder seems to fly quite well...."

Mmmm.... —
It seems I'm reading something into the cd values that is not there.... 🤷🏻‍♂️
View attachment 437744


🔴 What I really want:
A table and/or graph of absolute drag values — probably something I would need to test or calculate myself(?):
With that table/graph I want to compare the absolute drop & drift propensity of say, a .30cal 55gr dome, with a .25 26gr hollow point, with a .22 18.80gr wadcutter — at say 700fps and 900fps.


I'm sensing I'm missing an important factor here somewhere....

Help me out!

Matthias 😊
Something is off there, as wadcutter pellets have extremely poor ballistic coefficients.
 
Miles,

I have a general question about how the cd values of the different drag laws relate to each other.


For example, cd (=drag) values at mach 0.8 — around 900fps — from several drag model in comparison — sorted from low cd to high cd:

0.2330 — RA4 (22LR bullet)
0.2362 — WC₀ (airgun wadcutter)
0.2411 — GA (airgun domes)
0.2460 — SLG₀ (airgun slug w/ meplat)
0.2546 — G1
0.6985 — GS (spherical round ball)
0.9303 — GC (plain cylinder)


In my ignorance I interpret this as follows:
Conclusion 🅐: "Of all of the listed reference projetiles, the 22LR bullet (of the RA4 drag model) has the lowest cd value (= the lowest absolute drag [at 900fps]).
"That means it has the least drop, and the least wind drift.
"In other words the most aerodynamical projectile of these (at 900fps) is the 22LR bullet."
Correct?

So far, so good.

Conclusion 🅑: "Wadcutters are second on the list and are therefore almost as aerodynamic as LR22 bullets — and have much less drag (at 900fps!) than a domed pellet or airgun slug."
Correct?

Conclusion 🅒: "Airgun domed pellets have less drag at 900fps than the G1 type bullet (pointed slug)."
Correct?

Conclusion 🅓: "The plain cylinder has an atrociously high drag — four times as high as a wadcutter.
"The drag seems so bad (so high!), it should almost be impossible to make a cylinder fly through the air, unless it was self-propelled by some engine/propellant."

"But... — JSB sells a flying cylinder (that admittedly has not totally straight walls but is wearing a mini-skirt) — and where a conscious tester measured a respectable BC (GA) of 0.022 and 0.027 (medium and high velocity, ChairGun, 31y, 50y, atmo incl., ). — So, against the terrible drag values of a cylinder, this cylinder seems to fly quite well...."

Mmmm.... —
It seems I'm reading something into the cd values that is not there.... 🤷🏻‍♂️
View attachment 437744


🔴 What I really want:
A table and/or graph of absolute drag values — probably something I would need to test or calculate myself(?):
With that table/graph I want to compare the absolute drop & drift propensity of say, a .30cal 55gr dome, with a .25 26gr hollow point, with a .22 18.80gr wadcutter — at say 700fps and 900fps.


I'm sensing I'm missing an important factor here somewhere....

Help me out!

Matthias 😊
Matthias

The reference drag laws do not represent the drag coefficient values for the projectiles, they represent the shape of the projectiles drag laws. The idea is the true drag coefficients of each projectile are the same as the reference drag law multiplied by the form factor.

The original method for BC values of airgun projectiles used a constant reference drag coefficient value. The actual Cd value used was low, which resulted in low BC values. With the introduction of better reference drag laws, such as the GA drag law for domed pellets, the drag coefficients of the reference law had to be much lower than the actual projectile drag coefficient in order that the commonly used BC values that existed at the time could still be used, otherwise complete sets of new BC values would be needed. When I derived the GA2 and WC0 drag laws, George Conway had to similarly adapt them so that the old BC values could be used, or would at least work reasonably well with the old values. As I have often said before, it is the shape of the reference drag law which is important, not its value, as that will be corrected by the form factor.

The actual estimated values for wadcutters are shown below. The values from 0 to 0.4 at the top of the table represent different amounts of rounding off at the edges of the wadcutter face. The speeds are in ft/sec, they were worked from ICAO standard atmosphere at sea level, Mach numbers.

wadrag2.jpg

SLG0 and the other drag laws at the bottom of your table are much closer to the actual drag coefficient values of the shapes they represent. SLG0 still has some modification to it to give an average value for slugs with different meplat sizes.

As for purpose drag laws, they are pushed out as the "latest" development in small arms ballistics. Large calibre shells and the artillery weapons have been using purpose drag laws for at least 60 years, as the BC methods were simply not accurate enough for indirect fire. I remember trying to persuade a UK small arms ammunition manufacturer to use purpose drag laws 40 years ago. Maybe pellets will go the same way, but I am not sure the makers will have the expertise necessary to produce them. It is not straight forward, even with a proper tracking Doppler radar. It can be done, but you need an estimated drag law to start with, which can then be calibrated by using radars or even velocity measurements at different ranges. There is no easy way of calculating the estimated drag law, and no readily available software to do it for you. For slugs, you are somewhat better off, though taking account of the meplat is not that easy.

Hope that explains the apparent anomalies with the reference drag law values.
 
I downloaded the desktop version of MERO, but I don't see where I can extract the drag models. Do I need to be looking at a different GPC app?
Go to tools, select custom table columns, and then go down the list to Ref.Cd, select it and accept. Then select tables as your output as opposed to Reticle etc. I think that should do it
 
Good news!

From Igor -

The problem is you clone custom drag-model. For custom drag-model using ballistic coefficient is forbidden, because it dedicated for certain bullet and don’t need bc at all
To use bc with SLG0 drag-model you need to register it in Strelok Pro as ’standard’ drag-model.
Please wait next release I'll give you working solution for this case
 
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