MAGNUM Air Pistol Field Target!

[AirNGasman]

Despite EXTREME temperatures and usual brutal winds at Ranchito Robinson, I finally got around to exploring the maximum distances being considered for the new sport of MAGNUM Air Pistol Field Target (MapFT). Torn between a maximum target distance of 75 or 80 yards (yes, with air pistol), I've now explored those distances enough to gain greater insight(s). As Uncle Josh, aka- Master Of Exaggeration And Understatement would say, either was "a pretty far piece over yonder".

The Fool's firing-line view of the 70 yard, 3" (triangular) KZ bear and the 80 yard, 4" (triangular) KZ elk-

Understand you're looking at large extreme field targets that are also heavy enough to be totally rimfire capable. Besides the thrill of knocking those heavy mothers down to 80 yards with a pellet pistol, I sought greater insights into whether to dictate a 16X maximum scope magnification (setting) limit, or allow more magnification in deference to the extreme (pistol) distances. So as any self-respecting Extremist would, I decided to take this deep-dive into air pistol EXTREMES (by any measure) at 16X on my Weaver V-24 rifle scope. Trust me, that 3" triangular kill zone looks plenty small enough at 70 yards and 16X; the 4" KZ at 80 yards not (quite) so much. Perhaps the reason I decided to explore these limits when I did was an inexplicable feeling of Zen-like calm and confidence.

And the recent relentless heat abates slightly about the same time as do the usual brutal winds. Uncle Josh calls that 45 to 60 minute window of opportunity the Happy Hunting Hour; most folks call it dusk or sunset.

As any self-respecting fool would do, armed with two mags (totaling 20 shots) for my RonCo BroCo Gen 2 Convertible, I decided on ten-shot groups at each target! Apparently aforementioned Zen-like feeling of confidence was not delusion (this time), as I cleaned both those suckers on my first attempt!

Yes, that edge-hit did knock that huge field target down, despite roughly half the pellet diameter catching the face-plate. It sure would be interesting to know how much of the 18.1 grain pellets roughly 19 foot-pounds of remaining energy at 70 yards impacted the paddle. Regardless, I have no doubt whatsoever that had the edge-hit been anywhere but the top of the paddle the target wouldn't have fallen. Apparently "God watches over fools and idiots."

The ten-shot group on the 70 yard bear measured 2" center-to-center, and that on the 80 yard elk measured 2.5". So intoxicated on my success (LUCK) like a drunken sailor in port, with equal abandon and as any self-respecting fool would do, I 'thought', "wonder if I can kick that bear's ass AT 80 YARDS".

Yes, I know; 'Extremist' is a relative word. 'FOOL', not so much!

With shooting light fading fast, I mustered all the Zen-like confidence AND egomaniacal abandon of a drunken sailor in Boystown, and went to work on that 3" KZ bear at 80 yards as only Uncle Josh could (before ME, that is). AND CLEANED THAT SUCKER TOO!

And with nary an edge-hit. That group measured 2.1" c-t-c.

An interesting exercise to say the least, perhaps a better term would be 'enlightening'. But enough so to decide on 75 or 80 yards as the maximum range for MAGNUM Air Pistol Field Target competition? Still intoxicated on that most-memorable display of super-human pistol shooting skills (pure, BLIND LUCK), I "think" I'll wait till sobering up before deciding on 75 or 80 yards as the MapFT maximum distance.

The magnum pistol that did the deed-

BTW- No; believe it or not, I hadn't been drinking.

 

[Ranchibi]

Great offhand pistola shooting there...especially with a MAGNUM! I would be LUCKY to hit a barn door at that distance with a pistol.....

 

[Solo1]

Used to shoot silhouette @ 100 yds with a thompson 22 lr and a 3-9 pistol scope so i would think what your doing would be appropriate.

 

[JungleShooter]

Let me state it clearly:

● Great shooting. Period.
(I get hits on pigeons with a PP700 that shoots pretty good, and some of those rats-with-wings huddle up at locations as far as 82y out — but my pistol is dead rested on a huge sand bag — if I had to shoot offhanded or FT-style I don't think I would connect at half that distance....!)

● Great invention — Magnum Air Pistol Field Target (MapFT). We've got the technology now, let's put it to use.

● Great gun — I read your build thread about it. How fun!!

● Great writing — I really enjoy your style, Ron.


All the best to you,

Matthias

 

[Motorhead]

Damn RON .. great shooting with the Pistola !!!
I'm so bummed as the Guy out here WHO WAS TOO get Extreme FT / BR events going while working with AOA has thrown in the towel being too much work and a lack of funds etc .... Going to see what else we can do finding a miens to get something going around these parts

Wish TEXAS was not so far away as we could have some serious fun !!!
My Extreme pistol continues to evolve .... chopped off the grip & added a SC one piece grip

 

[Gunnertrones]

Like it. Like it A LOT a.gasman!
But just to verify........ this is offhand shooting?

 

[Motorhead]

Like it. Like it A LOT a.gasman!
But just to verify........ this is offhand shooting?

Not offhand .. No way !!!!
But Ron may Fibb & state so ... lol

 

[L.Leon]

So you chop the stock off a rifle, call it a pistola and shoot targets at rifle distances? Kudos to you for doing it the hard way, The Desert Eagle looks tiny in comparison.

 

[Franklink]

So you chop the stock off a rifle, call it a pistola and shoot targets at rifle distances? Kudos to you for doing it the hard way,

While I do compete in regular sub12fpe "pistol" field target matches....I've gotta agree with you about the absurdity of the "pistols" used.

I shared this one a while back....but basically a Crosman 1720T (probably THE most used pistol for AAFTA pistol FT) next to what was my main general use airgun at the time. The absurdity level is high. "Pistol" my arse. Calling these things pistols is Exhibit A of the mentality of field target. And I'm not complaining (I love ft in case anyone is wondering) so much as stating facts.

They're pistols only b/c they don't have a way to tuck up into the armpit/shoulder.

I also consider it a veritable tongue in cheek that the pistol AAFTA rules allow shooters to presse the scope into their eyebrow/forehead. Lol, you can't support with your shoulder, but the eyebrow is allowed. Cuz everybody knows that when we shoot pistols in the rest of shooting sports we use our eyebrows as supports, ha ha. I have a friend who rigged up a little section of steel rod coming off the back of the scope eyepiece and then turned to rest across his eyebrow. We laugh about it together cuz it's no different than an eyecup so the rules technically allow it. He used that contraption to shoot a 40/40 on a pistol course that was using most of the same targets as a rifle course that was a 35 Troyer.

 

[Motorhead]

Not to stray to far from Ron's posting subject ... "MAGNUM pistol" or at minimum "Extreme" pistol power at 30 to 20 fpe there is Not really any pistols that can make those sort of numbers. Now I as I'm sure Ron would agree, what were calling Pistols is a far stretch indeed
So it has been the trend in more recent years is modifying Rifles "Chop Chop" so they just fall within the established AATFA dimension rules, even tho Rons wanting of these more powerful pistol competitions really has no national organization supporting it .... It's for poope & giggles which is just fine !!

Ron established Pistol FT way before i started shooting it, tho have been now for @ 8-9 years. If there is a standout in Why the heck we would challenge our self ( All who shoot pistol FT ) is because it is HARD / DIFFICULT / BORDERING ON NOT FUN ..... Until you first start shooting Field Target it's hard to understand the semi self sadistic game of PISTOL Field target

Man up, sit down .. get steady " LOL" and have some more FT fun with like mind crazies .. It's really that much fun !!!

 

[AirNGasman]

Damn RON .. great shooting with the Pistola !!!
I'm so bummed as the Guy out here WHO WAS TOO get Extreme FT / BR events going while working with AOA has thrown in the towel being too much work and a lack of funds etc .... Going to see what else we can do finding a miens to get something going around these parts

Wish TEXAS was not so far away as we could have some serious fun !!!
My Extreme pistol continues to evolve .... chopped off the grip & added a modified SC grip from a Thomas

View attachment 382949

I'm pretty sure I've found my evil twin, Scott; and he is called YOU! As more and more circumstantial evidences accrue, that becomes ever harder to deny... much as I try!

This is the very gun that launched Pistol Field Target, as I built it a quarter-century ago-

Converted from a Montgomery Wards Hawthorne variant of the 1950s-vintage Crosman 180, I could have used the chopped butt from the rifle stock to fashion the pistol grip; however decided to ANNOUNCE the conversion in no uncertain terms with a piece of gray Actionwood from my bow-making materials inventory. That pre-dating Field Target in Texas, I honestly don't recall if FT entered my mind as an ulterior motive for building the magnum Co2 pistol. But once it proved itself beyond all hopes in accuracy and power (full broadside penetration of big Texas jacks at thirty yards, 3/4" average groups at 50 yards, virtue of 9 foot pounds of muzzle energy) I certainly then started dreaming about Pistol FT. But first I had to bring Field Target to my neck of the woods. That accomplished shortly thereafter, Pistol Field Target came not long after.

Frankenpistol dominated early PFT's 25 yard maximum distances until PCPs started showing up in the hands of good pistol-shots; whereupon I increased PFT distances to 30 yards, then 35. But with Texas match temperatures ranging from near freezing to 100+, suffice to say Co2 temperature sensitivity is too much handicap (out to 35 yards).

However Frank still shoots like a house afire; as accurate as any PCP pistol (especially in hot temperatures). Here's a ten-shot group at the current PFT maximum range of 35 yards (shot in the current millennium)-

Your post that motivated this post also motivated the photo below comparing the first FT pistol ever 'produced' with the latest ('produced' for the yet to become reality MapFT discipline). The photo is titled 'PFT Extremes'-

And I thought Frankenpistol was huge! Suffice to say it takes more than a little 12 gram Co2 cartridge, 8.5" of barrel, 9 foot pounds of muzzle energy, and 9X magnification to knock down field targets ten times as heavy, at three times the distances as was the case when Pistol Field Target became reality.

What isn't obvious in the photo is the first FT pistol built from a Montgomery Wards Hawthorne, 1950s vintage Crosman 180 Co2 rifle sold brand new for $21.95, and the RonCo BroCo Gen 2 Convertible MapFT pistol was built from a (still produced) Brocock Sniper PCP rifle that I actually paid $2,195.00 for!

Am I mad? ABSOLUTELY! However I (always) like to qualify that confession with the statement "There are methods to my madnesses".

Thankfully I have an evil twin enabling my madness(es)!

Your JTS build is awesome, Bro!

 

[AirNGasman]

So you chop the stock off a rifle, call it a pistola and shoot targets at rifle distances? Kudos to you for doing it the hard way, The Desert Eagle looks tiny in comparison.

View attachment 383088

Not exactly, LL. You oversimplify my process(es).

I have a fever dream, wake up in a cold sweat, chop the stock off a perfectly good rifle (the more expensive, the better), chop it's perfectly good Lothar Walther barrel to pistol length with a hack-saw (choke and all), re-crown it with rotary-tool bits, if needed glue on and fashion a pistol grip, refinish the resulting pistol stock, tune the trigger and power-output to preferences with trigger, sear, and hammer-springs from Ace Hardware's Airgun Trigger, Sear, and Hammer Springs department, then confirm the pistol shoots at least as well as did the rifle I butchered with endless, joyful testing.

Unfortunately, now that I've shared my trade secrets with you, I MUST KILL YOU.



By the way, having owned a .50 DE, THEY ARE TINY IN COMPARISON. I was happy with it's accuracy, consistently getting 1 - 1.5" groups at 50 yards from a solid, sand-bagged bench-rest. I'm getting that from FT position with my latest MapFT pistol (sitting on a folding stool and resting the pistol on unattached bipod), and am closing in on that level of accuracy at 80 yards from FT position.

To answer ongoing inquiries to the effect "is that from offhand", NO. I (always) make impressive offhand results known in no uncertain terms by ratcheting up my (usual) bragging... MANY-FOLD.

FWIW, although I'm not exactly human, not sure Neanderthal qualifies as SUPERhuman enough to shoot a six-pound scoped pistol OFFHAND that well.

 

[AirNGasman]

While I do compete in regular sub12fpe "pistol" field target matches....I've gotta agree with you about the absurdity of the "pistols" used.

I shared this one a while back....but basically a Crosman 1720T (probably THE most used pistol for AAFTA pistol FT) next to what was my main general use airgun at the time. The absurdity level is high. "Pistol" my arse. Calling these things pistols is Exhibit A of the mentality of field target. And I'm not complaining (I love ft in case anyone is wondering) so much as stating facts.

They're pistols only b/c they don't have a way to tuck up into the armpit/shoulder.

I also consider it a veritable tongue in cheek that the pistol AAFTA rules allow shooters to presse the scope into their eyebrow/forehead. Lol, you can't support with your shoulder, but the eyebrow is allowed. Cuz everybody knows that when we shoot pistols in the rest of shooting sports we use our eyebrows as supports, ha ha. I have a friend who rigged up a little section of steel rod coming off the back of the scope eyepiece and then turned to rest across his eyebrow. We laugh about it together cuz it's no different than an eyecup so the rules technically allow it. He used that contraption to shoot a 40/40 on a pistol course that was using most of the same targets as a rifle course that was a 35 Troyer.

View attachment 383091

As the founder of all pistol Field Target disciplines, thank you for exposing some of the absurdities of "Pistol" FT, FL. This seems like an opportune time to share some FT history lessons with you newbies.

Had it been up to the founder of all PFT disciplines we would have such (prehistoric) limits as 10 (or 12) inch barrels, 6 (or 9) X magnification, possibly only LER pistol scopes, and no contact with the gun other than hands on the grip, and one point of contact of fore-end to some part of the shooter's leg. In other words, think Thompson/Center Contender and IHMSA.

Unfortunately, in a fit of 'progressive' "thinking", I (voluntarily) surrendered my role as PFT Dictator for the sake of Democracy; as you point out, (apparently) a huge mistake. However I have excuses for that mistake.

Once I'd taken PFT global by including it in the 2009 FT National Championships, a few of the out-of-state shooters liked PFT enough to start pistol programs at their FT clubs. However once it became obvious not only that each club was using their own (disparate) set of rules, which in itself was center-productive to growing PFT nationally, there was consensus that we should come up with a set of common PFT rules. That's when AAFTA decided to get involved in Pistol FT. The governors assembled a PFT Rules Committee consisting of PFT match directors (five, plus one Committee Chairman) to assemble a set of proposed rules for the governors to consider and/or tweak for adoption.

Due to vastly "DISsimilar" opinions of what constitutes a pistol (largely between Texas and the West Coast), coming to (any) consensus was a LONG, PAINFUL PROCESS. In fact, it came SO close to failing that I was forced to declare a hostile coup to replace the chairman, just to complete the rules-making process in time to submit it to the AAFTA BoG by deadline. Had I not staged that hostile coup to replace the chairman, PFT may not exist now.

So as the man most responsible for the PFT rules we now have them, as I've been from the get-go and still remain, I'm in total agreement with you that 'The absurdity level is high. "Pistol" my arse. Calling these things pistols is Exhibit A of the mentality of field target.'

That true, understand that mentality is called Democracy; and common sense doesn't always prevail. Especially because "progressive" elements get equal votes. And that being the case, perhaps you can find comfort in considering PFT a microcosm of American government... as it is in 2023.

Personally, I don't find that comforting AT ALL. But I do find a few related things comforting.

1) Pistol Field Target survived it's not-so-immaculate conception.
2) Amazingly, it survives to this day.
3) It has grown steadily, though admittedly slowly.
4) It now has a bastard brother named Extreme Pistol Field Target.
5) That bastard is growing.
6) Though now OLD AS DIRT, the father of those bastards is (apparently) still virile enough to still be propagating.
7) The latest offspring is a BIG bastard! Appropriately named MAGNUM.
8) It appears a major airgun manufacturer is enabling the growth of all three bastards with a model suitable for all three disciplines (and more).
9) God help us all!
10) You're welcome.
11) "Our amps go to eleven."

Our amps go to eleven

Now you know "the rest of the (his)story".

 

[L.Leon]

That true, understand that mentality is called Democracy; and common sense doesn't always prevail. Especially because "progressive" elements get equal votes. And that being the case, perhaps you can find comfort in considering PFT a microcosm of American government... as it is in 2023.

In a “Republic” the minority/progressive elements get equal treatment, in a Democracy? No they don’t, the majority tells the minority to pound sand… Stop butchering those rifles you sadist…

 

[Franklink]

As the founder of all pistol Field Target disciplines, thank you for exposing some of the absurdities of "Pistol" FT, FL. This seems like an opportune time to share some FT history lessons with you newbies.

Had it been up to the founder of all PFT disciplines we would have such (prehistoric) limits as 10 (or 12) inch barrels, 6 (or 9) X magnification, possibly only LER pistol scopes, and no contact with the gun other than hands on the grip, and one point of contact of fore-end to some part of the shooter's leg. In other words, think Thompson/Center Contender and IHMSA.

Unfortunately, in a fit of 'progressive' "thinking", I (voluntarily) surrendered my role as PFT Dictator for the sake of Democracy; as you point out, (apparently) a huge mistake. However I have excuses for that mistake.

Once I'd taken PFT global by including it in the 2009 FT National Championships, a few of the out-of-state shooters liked PFT enough to start pistol programs at their FT clubs. However once it became obvious not only that each club was using their own (disparate) set of rules, which in itself was center-productive to growing PFT nationally, there was consensus that we should come up with a set of common PFT rules. That's when AAFTA decided to get involved in Pistol FT. The governors assembled a PFT Rules Committee consisting of PFT match directors (five, plus one Committee Chairman) to assemble a set of proposed rules for the governors to consider and/or tweak for adoption.

Due to vastly "DISsimilar" opinions of what constitutes a pistol (largely between Texas and the West Coast), coming to (any) consensus was a LONG, PAINFUL PROCESS. In fact, it came SO close to failing that I was forced to declare a hostile coup to replace the chairman, just to complete the rules-making process in time to submit it to the AAFTA BoG by deadline. Had I not staged that hostile coup to replace the chairman, PFT may not exist now.

So as the man most responsible for the PFT rules we now have them, as I've been from the get-go and still remain, I'm in total agreement with you that 'The absurdity level is high. "Pistol" my arse. Calling these things pistols is Exhibit A of the mentality of field target.'

That true, understand that mentality is called Democracy; and common sense doesn't always prevail. Especially because "progressive" elements get equal votes. And that being the case, perhaps you can find comfort in considering PFT a microcosm of American government... as it is in 2023.

Personally, I don't find that comforting AT ALL. But I do find a few related things comforting.

1) Pistol Field Target survived it's not-so-immaculate conception.
2) Amazingly, it survives to this day.
3) It has grown steadily, though admittedly slowly.
4) It now has a bastard brother named Extreme Pistol Field Target.
5) That bastard is growing.
6) Though now OLD AS DIRT, the father of those bastards is (apparently) still virile enough to still be propagating.
7) The latest offspring is a BIG bastard! Appropriately named MAGNUM.
8) It appears a major airgun manufacturer is enabling the growth of all three bastards with a model suitable for all three disciplines (and more).
9) God help us all!
10) You're welcome.
11) "Our amps go to eleven."

Our amps go to eleven

Now you know "the rest of the (his)story".

Very interesting read. And I can see the smatterings of human nature throughout the twists and turns of the convoluted process by which was born pistol field target.

Had you gotten your way and kept pistol field target more pistoley (fabricated word, but fits the usage), I'm sure the competitors would have eventually turned it into an equipment race anyway. Because when we're being pragmatic, regardless of the class, or pistol or rifle, AAFTA really needs to add an E and and R in that acronym somewhere ("American Airgun Field Target Equipment Race Association" perhaps?)

 

[AirNGasman]

Very interesting read. And I can see the smatterings of human nature throughout the twists and turns of the convoluted process by which was born pistol field target.

Had you gotten your way and kept pistol field target more pistoley (fabricated word, but fits the usage), I'm sure the competitors would have eventually turned it into an equipment race anyway. Because when we're being pragmatic, regardless of the class, or pistol or rifle, AAFTA really needs to add an E and and R in that acronym somewhere ("American Airgun Field Target Equipment Race Association" perhaps?)

Agreed again, FL. Human nature being as it is, competitors (in anything) naturally seek every advantage possible. Hence, virtually all organized competitions become equipment races; a natural evolution that I both understand and mock (due to the extremes some folks go to, to win a little game).

As for how Pistol Field Target and the rules came to be, most of the criticisms of the rules come from those that did not experience the process(es) and evolution(s), so have no clue that virtually all the rules came about as result of compromise(s). I've often said "compromise is not a four-letter word". However, sometimes that's only because of the letter-count.

The ER acronym could be added to virtually every competition that survives due to rules arrived at through compromise(s).

 

[Gunnertrones]

Good to hear it was not offhand! Was confused by Ranchibis post, and thought that would be an extremely achievement. (And IF offhand, I would give up my own offhand pistol training- why bother….?)

 

[Motorhead]

SVFTC rifle spec club match today ,,,, 52 possible, the JTS managed a 46/52
Its shoots good as a rifle ... stability is key !!

 

[Gunnertrones]

"I would have finished better if I hadn't missed so many shots." -- Unknown Field Target Shooter

Can`t dispute this.