Let me reword this. I'm wondering how many of you have gone the route of swapping of magazines to know they aren't causing an interference/inaccuracy issue, or found where one is?
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Tuning Magazine creating bad groups/accuracy?
- Thread starter LorenCoffin
- Start date
most people will use a single shot tray to find out if their magazine is causing problems, sometimes chamfering the Magazine pellet holder and breech hole helps to keep it from deforming the pellets.
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they definitely can, as mentioned above if theyre causing an alignment problem and the front rifling contact area of the pellet is getting chewed on the way in ... alittle work on the mag feeding hole and breech area should remedy it imo ...
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if you have a avenger or gauntlet, you can get the pellet bumper from All about airguns 
on youtube. I have one and works very well with my 25 cal avenger.
on youtube. I have one and works very well with my 25 cal avenger.
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The magazines in the Veteran and HW100 are very dependable, as a local shooting friend communicated to me a long time ago. No springs, no jamming and very easy to load pellets. Having recently purchased both of these guns, I can only say how dependable and accurate their magazines have been. I have not personally compared either of these to their SST magazines, but have heard there is little/no difference in their accuracy vs. their respective SSTs.
My own experience with RAW, FX Royale 400, Red Wolf Safari magazines is that “for me” I prefer the SST for improved accuracy. Others’ mileage may vary.
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I've had good luck with the Daystate magazines. On my Red Wolf .25 and Pulsar .177 they are very accurate shot to shot. No reason to use the Single Shot Tray (SST) at all.
I had terrible luck with BroCock and their magazines in a .177 Concept XR (I've not tried the new magazines released last month or two that are copies of the Daystate). I went thru 4 of these expensive magazines and they ALL had alignment issues; shaved pellets, left lead deposits in the magazine shelf and accuracy was absolutely terrible.
I tried CARM magazines on the BroCock as well hoping to fix the issue. Shot groups were a bit tighter, but still no where near as accurate as the SST or even my Daystates using magazines. Returned the gun because I didn't pay for a single shot feeding system/gun...but that is what I got in usability terms.
I really liked the Concept XR itself, so going to try the BroCock again but with the NEW magazines from Daystate and in a larger caliber. Hoping if there is any shaving or deformity imparted to the round will have a much smaller accuracy impact as it should effect a smaller percentage of the total surface area of the round...
Steve
Picture from 15 yard indoor target, sandbagged. 10 shots per target. Huge difference with the SST on the BroCock.
I had terrible luck with BroCock and their magazines in a .177 Concept XR (I've not tried the new magazines released last month or two that are copies of the Daystate). I went thru 4 of these expensive magazines and they ALL had alignment issues; shaved pellets, left lead deposits in the magazine shelf and accuracy was absolutely terrible.
I tried CARM magazines on the BroCock as well hoping to fix the issue. Shot groups were a bit tighter, but still no where near as accurate as the SST or even my Daystates using magazines. Returned the gun because I didn't pay for a single shot feeding system/gun...but that is what I got in usability terms.
I really liked the Concept XR itself, so going to try the BroCock again but with the NEW magazines from Daystate and in a larger caliber. Hoping if there is any shaving or deformity imparted to the round will have a much smaller accuracy impact as it should effect a smaller percentage of the total surface area of the round...
Steve
Picture from 15 yard indoor target, sandbagged. 10 shots per target. Huge difference with the SST on the BroCock.
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I’ve had a similar issue as @Swells with a Brocock magazine. The issue occurred using .25 H&N Barracuda pellets. They fit loosely in the mag and the pellet’s nose affected cycling. Before I realized what the problem was I’d shaved the nose of a few of the domes when indexing the mag by forcing it to index without pushing the pellet’s nose back first. I figured out that the solution was to stick with JSBs (they sit more securely in the mag) so there was no need to purchase another mag at that point. Also encountered the issue with JSB King Heavies in an Edgun mag. The skirts were too wide for the mag. Using King Heavy Mk IIs remedied the issue, but I did notice that the issue was more pronounced in metal Mags as opposed to plastic ones. This is why I initially asked for specifics in regards to the OP’s question.
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So the other night I saw listings for different diameter .22 pellets/slugs and it made me think how they line up in magazines. If the design is such that they aren't held centered like a collet then it automatically creates a problem for all but the correct diameter ammo for that magazine. For plinker types this wouldn't be an issue but anything accuracy related would send shooters back to ss trays right off. It sounds like it's a common enough problem, for sure. All this doesn't even begin to take into account the inherent inaccuracies in manufacturing and needed tolerances in order for things to function.
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I don't favor .22 air rifles and I hadn't noticed the varied diameters in .22 pellets until recently. I really don't know what the primary purpose of this variance is. As for holding pellets centered in a mag, I've seen some that incorporate an o-ring between a two-piece magazine design to compensate for space between the pellet and the inside wall of the magazine for a collet type of effect. Regarding accuracy, I'm convinced that pellets with bent and nicked skirts may account for some flyers that can throw off groups. I am of the opinion that jostling around in the tins during transport and dropped or beat-up tins account for bent/dented or nicked skirts. Consequently if damaged pellets aren't sorted out, they can contribute to inaccuracies. Airgunners who sort pellets have taken pics, reported, and posted slight variances (<0.5 grain) throughout their shipments.I think there should be some sort of reasonable expectation of slight variance in weight of mass produced projectiles.
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"Regarding accuracy, I'm convinced that pellets with bent and nicked skirts may account for some flyers that can throw off groups. I am of the opinion that jostling around in the tins during transport and dropped or beat-up tins account for bent/dented or nicked skirts. Consequently if damaged pellets aren't sorted out, they can contribute to inaccuracies. Airgunners who sort pellets have taken pics, reported, and posted slight variances (<0.5 grain) throughout their shipments.I think there should be some sort of reasonable expectation of slight variance in weight of mass produced projectiles. "
Absolutely. I've considered if some sort of die would work as a uniforming tool, even on ones that aren't noticeably deformed. Buy the pellets slightly oversize and bring them back to the size you want with the die. It's not unlike what we did when cast bullet benchrest loading. Years and years ago, I forget who came out with it, but rimfire guys started sorting the rounds via rim thickness with a wedge shaped gauge. I'd bet there are several other techniques for their ammo I haven't heard of since.
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Swapped magazines. 4 different BroCock and 2 different CARM in a BroCock Concept XR .177. Swapped magazines and ran the single shot tray in the sequence of testing as a baseline on how the magazines effected accuracy.
Absolutely a noticeable and repeatable degradation in accuracy using the magazines in this case. Each magazine produced it's own repeatable dispersion pattern, some worse than others, that was verified on many rounds of testing. We could even identify which pellets in the sequence were going to fly off and by approximately how much. This is what the magazine shelf and probe looked like after firing a couple magazines...covered in shaved lead.
I feel this is totally gun/manufacturer dependent. I've not had the same issues with an other brand I have.
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I've found that even a poorly aligned magazine will push a pellet uninjured into barrel if the entry to barrel is slightly chamferred or polished.
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Swapped magazines. 4 different BroCock and 2 different CARM in a BroCock Concept XR .177. Swapped magazines and ran the single shot tray in the sequence of testing as a baseline on how the magazines effected accuracy.
Absolutely a noticeable and repeatable degradation in accuracy using the magazines in this case. Each magazine produced it's own repeatable dispersion pattern, some worse than others, that was verified on many rounds of testing. We could even identify which pellets in the sequence were going to fly off and by approximately how much. This is what the magazine shelf and probe looked like after firing a couple magazines...covered in shaved lead.
I feel this is totally gun/manufacturer dependent. I've not had the same issues with an other brand I have.
That doesn't look good. Do you know if the shavings are coming from the nose or skirts? From the mag or the breech? If possible, can you post pics of the loaded magazine(s) in question (front and side view) with a description of the pellets used that resulted in these shavings? Hopefully this reply will prompt other responses since you included a photo in your last post. I haven't seen any replies in a few days and I'm curious as to the origin of your issue.
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I've massaged or smoothed out the barrel entry on many of my rifles, they load noticeably smoother and a way to check pellet damage is using your clip and load a pellet into barrel then open the bolt, remove the clip and use a hotdog stick wooden dowel and from muzzle end push pellet back thru breech, examine the. Dome for shaving, also have had some nasty edges at oring groove.
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