M3 Delete the Reg!

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@kiba get what you're saying--once I swapped out to the Huma, I did a similar test but with the front reg disabled. 149.8 bar overnight for a week straight with a full 250bar bottle fill. 

Awesome yours is working but like you said, it can still get sticky from time to time...I just don't want to worry about it any longer. And for the monthly event I do, can't wait for the reg to catch up, 10-12 shots in 2 minutes and I have watched the front reg take upwards of 10-20 seconds to "catch up" which also impacted the plenum fill speed.
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If you’re doing a timed rapid fire string at a match I can see where the 2nd reg might pose a problem-- it does indeed slow down the plenum fill rate compared to a single reg system as the air has to pass through two tiny regulator orifices instead of one.

After cleaning and polishing the bellevilles on the 1st reg, my M3 refills the plenum in probably about 4 seconds judging by the sound of the inrushing air refilling the plenum. I haven’t put a pressure transducer in the 2nd reg gauge port to datalog the actual recovery time after a shot—that would be interesting to see, especially how the setpoint delta between the 1st reg and 2nd reg effects plenum refill time.

The 1st reg on my second M3 worked just fine out of the box in terms of not sticking and dropping all the way down to the 2nd reg set point and occasionally dropping the plenum down slightly below the 2nd reg set point, which is what my first M3 did. At some point I’m sure I’ll have to disassemble the 1st reg of M3 #2 and polish the bellevilles and grease the o-rings just like I did on my first M3, but for now it’s working great.
 
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This might be a silly idea, but for the flow problem, FX should put a power plenum behind the first reg before it goes into the Impact action lol.
Still wouldn't solve some of the other quarks about the first reg, but that would solve the flow problem.


I put the reg delete on my M3 last week. Been working pretty good. So far I've had consistent 4fps spread at 950fps with .22 slugs. The second FX reg has been doing fine on its own. Just don't put a 300bar bottle and your good.

At the end of the day, I think this part is a must for every M3 owner. It isnt perfect for EVERY build but if your first reg goes out or starts leaking, you'll have a reliable backup solution while you're repairing the first reg.



 
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Out of curiosity, does a bottle adapter from an mk2 fit the M3 block? Or is the k&l piece the only thing that fits without the reg?
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@madeintheuk The MKII does not fit on the M3. The bottle end is the same, but the side that goes into the Impact is smaller on the MKII than the M3. I think they had to make it larger the M3 to fit the reg components in it.
 
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Why buy a m3 If your just deleting the one reg why not just stick to the mk2 ? Just wondering if there are reasons to switch to m3 other than the 2 regs thought that was one of the big selling points to it
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Ill be honest, I don't hate the M3, just not a fan of every 'new' feature.

The cocking action is smoother due to the ambidextrous redesign. The tolerances are just a wee bit tighter. Valve control knob is easier to manipulate. I will give a nod to the fine adjustment being tool-less. The 16 position power wheel...points for it but it was about damn time. I had MrShosted's 19 position on my MK2's. 

Front reg is obviously on my not like list (just my experience with it). The macro valve control or whatever it was changed between the two, not a fan. Doesn't seem to have as fine of an adjustment, big fps swings instead. Just my personal preference. Found finding the right harmonic node to ride was easier with my MK2s.

But with the no front reg, Huma rear, and some cool schtuff, keeping the M3 around. 


 
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If you shoot high reg pressure tune getting ride of first reg is a very sensible move unless you plan on filling to 300 bars. If you shoot below 130 then dual reg is very helpful with consistency. 


I usually fill to only 230 bars and set my reg to 150 bars so first reg is more annoyance than to anything else. Part of the reason I didn’t order a M3 and got 2 crowns instead. 
 
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I saw this new Delete the Reg when I ordered the probe clamp. I'm most interested in hearing how much it speeds up refresh times.

I had the least consistent behavior when the first reg was set to 150b and second reg was set to 120b. It was better at 150b/100b. I polished all the sealing and sliding surfaces in the first reg, but at the same time I bumped it to 175b and bumped the second reg to 140b. It worked a lot better at that point, but unsure how much the polishing helped vs just changing the set point. That 175b set point has now self-shifted up to 200b and seems stable there. Refresh seems consistent. Not sure what is the cause of most of these first reg issues as the designs of the two regs aren't that different. Biggest difference seems to be the spring stack. First reg uses a parallel stack of smaller diameter washers. May be a combo of added friction due to parallel arrangement and less ideal spring curve due to limited belleville choices for that size.

I agree with comments so far:

  • First reg creep/consistency is far less important than the second reg. For me, I don't care about creep as long as the first reg is responsive and returns close to the set point or higher each shot.
  • If you are running a high-pressure tune, the first reg is not that beneficial. I currently have the first reg at 200b, second reg at 150b, and only fill to 250b. If my first reg wasn't currently working perfectly, I'd be all over this delete the reg.
  • A power plenum for the first reg would be cool if you were speed shooting, etc. Saw this mentioned before as an idea, specifically mounting something under the first reg gauge and potentially opening up the passageway that feeds the gauge. I have wondered how much having a first 'plenum' that is essentially just the passageways through the trigger group is slowing down refresh speeds of the second plenum.
 
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I dumped my FX regs on both of my Mavericks. I'm still running dual regs, but they are the Huma extra high pressure ones. I'm also running 300 bar bottles. Those Humas don't move, and they refill faster. the only real downside to the Huma regs is they won't degas like the FX regs will. You have to shoot the Humas down, whereas the FX regs would degas if you took a shot or two. I love having the 300 bar bottles, because I can fill up two bottles at home to 300 bar, and almost never need to fill a bottle on a hunting trip. That may not sound like much, but it makes a pretty big difference when you're checking your zero multiple times and hunting with a 130+ fpe tune.
 
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Thanks .ordered one. No more worrying about going below first reg.
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my question is why bother with the delete? You can just set the reg really high/wide open and not worry about it, Or do nothing and just shoot pass through first reg? Why spend money to replace the reg? If it fails then It will just be a pass through. So what if you shoot below the first reg? 
 
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I don't know if you tethering or not at your range, but me decided for

my MK2 not to buy the first Reg bottle adapter but I chose the Huma external regulator attached directly on the scba bottle DIN and tethering with microbore.

And I set the feed for 190 bar and acting as a first Reg and the normal Reg became as a "second" Reg and set to whatever 146 bars in expl...
 
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So what if it takes 10 seconds to fill plenum .
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That may not seem like much, but it can be if you're trying to get a quick follow up shot or playing the wind on long range shooting. 10 seconds can be an eternity in some cases. That is one of the reasons I swapped out my regs to Huma regs. They definitely refill faster on my guns.
 
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