M3 Delete the Reg!

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M0ist0ne

M0ist0ne

Member
Aug 21, 2020
1,002
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MN, United States
Ok, so I know there are going to be some haters on this one but I'm excited that my KL M3 Delete the Reg arrived yesterday!

But some background...I have a 2nd batch M3 and just had no luck with the front reg. It was back to service after 3 weeks as it blew out. Mine had the creeps worse than getting the Radiohead song stuck in your head. I've cleaned, polished, re-stacked...you name it, I've tried it. It's a slug setup M3 at 150bar on the rear, popping 34.9's at 950. I have really tried to love that front reg, but we are breaking up. My favorite memory of our relationship is during a nrl22 match when mrs. front reg decided to either go to the setpoint of 190-210 (I'm a creep...) OR not go past 140 bar...that was a fun match. 

To prepare for making my M3 a glorified MK2, installed a Huma reg that'll hold at 150bar for days (even against full bottle pressure as I had since turned the front reg all the way out). I will say this--would I do this with a 300bar bottle and stock amp reg? Nope. Will this void my warranty? I have a feeling, it likely will. Do I care? Nope, because the gun is shooting great without the front reg in play with a Huma in its butt. 

The current combo of Huma rear/front reg disabled has made me love my M3 again...and this weekend my shiny new reg delete will be mating with its new home!

IMG_20211117_211629_364.1637244941.jpg

 
The regs are not all just right. I little rust or sharp edges on the Belleville washers can bring you pain and if left as is will wear on the plastic reg piston which will cause its own weird problems as time goes by. So while they are apart, which in my case has been next to never, I always polish the washers up good and put a little lube on them. Tiny and I mean tiny bits of debris or scratches, in sealing surfaces or the o-ring's, can cause lingering problems that are hard to deal with. Cleaning and lubing the o-rings and or surfaces they move on is also very important. I use my magnifying visor when I am werqing on these to make sure things are just right when I put them back together.

If going back to a single reg werqs out for you then good for you.
 
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There are several FX reg configurations. Pre-AMP, single AMP, dual AMP (Maverick), and bottle reg/AMP reg (Impact M3). I can tell you this: first, I am not sold on the need or desireability of 2 regulators, second, I am not a fan of the bottle reg/AMP regulator combo, third, I'll see if the dual AMP setup is any better when my Maverick gets here.
 
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ctshooter

For the most part the single regs were fine, at lower reg pressures, but as one turns the pressure up, my M3 now runs at 300 bar, It gets harder for the regs to regulate as accurately going from 300 bar down to whatever we run in our guns. Also many countries need to meet their reduced power requirements so will be running at very low reg pressure compared to us in the USA. Remember we are not the only ones buying these things and they need to werq for everyone.

I'm sure FX is trying to make things better and if they find they have wasted their time, effort and $ they will soon be returning to more profitable times by removing anything useless they put on their guns.
 
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@bio Understand completely, I too spent countless hours staring at reg parts through my magnifiers I use for small electronics work. You nailed it with your first post though...plastic reg piston. My Huma holds well against a 300 bar fill. I was lucky with my maverick and the dual amp reg setup, it was solid--special thanks to the dreamline bottle adapter attached to a wildcat action with a big@$$ plenum! 

@cts I get it man, take apart a Huma with a brass piston and then wonder why I spent all this time looking for scratches in a black plastic rod. 

Imo, the dual reg setup was needed for the M3 IF FX wanted to promote the 300bar bottle. Let's be honest, these plastic pistoned regs aren't the best design for pressures this high. 

Honestly, not trying to start a brand war. Just sharing my excitement for something that has turned my opinion around on a pcp that I was about ready to roll over with my truck.
 
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I like the idea of the dual reg design. I'm thinking maybe FX could cover the faulty one under a warranty claim for a better experience. Just knocking the 250/300 bar down by any amount would be beneficial to the second reg. I run with an MKII without any issues with one regulator while setting mine anywhere between 130 bar and 150 bar, so far. I would imagine any setting much below those would cause more stress on the AMP regulator. Mine It is very stable and has been for several years. Rebuilt once by me after some minor creep from me making many set point changes when new and learning. My typical ES range is 7 or better.
 
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You can also just pull the guts out of the first reg if you don’t want to use it-- the rifle will still fill and function just fine and only have the rear regulator for the plenum. Just leave the slotted cap on the front of the housing so the bottle pin has something to depress against.

I had slight 1st reg issues with one of my M3s, it would sometimes drop all the way down even with the 2nd reg set point and was very very slow to refill the plenum after a shot, so I disassembled and lubed the o rings and lightly polished the bellevilles and now it responds and fills quickly.

That being said, the 1st regs on both of my M3s do vary a bit between shots, and do creep about 20-25 bar if they sit overnight… but it doesn’t matter because the 2nd stage regs hold perfect even after several days of sitting, and that’s what really matters for consistent shots. I can pull the rifle out of the safe after sitting a couple days and the first shot point of impact and velocity is right on. I no longer worry about the 1st reg drifting or creeping a little unless it gets sticky and slows the fill time of the plenum.

I think part of the reason there’s all this concern about the front reg on the M3s not being totally consistent or creeping after sitting overnight is because everyone is used to constantly watching for regulator consistency and creep in a single regulator rifle since that’s what affects shot velocity and consistency-- and they’ve carried that thinking over to the 1st stage regulator on the M3. However, on the 1st stage reg of an M3 a little bit of creep or variance in the 1st stage set point really doesn’t matter and won’t change your velocity or SD as long as the 2nd reg is working properly, since the second reg is controlling plenum pressure.

FX used to put the small crappy 90 degree sweep gauges on the M3 1st stage reg pressure and it was harder to watch for creep and consistency on it because the gauges weren't accurate and tough to read. As long as it was 30+ bars above the 2nd reg, that was good enough. Now that FX is putting the larger easier to read and more precise Wika gauges on the 1st stage reg, it seems people are overanalyzing things since they can read the pressure of the 1st reg much more accurately. They're expecting perfect 1st stage pressure consistency and no creep, when it really isn't necessary as long as it's above the second stage reg set point and the second reg is working properly.

Just my opinion and experience with 2 M3’s anyways.
 
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Andrew, please explain why you are using the K&L reg delete fitting vice just dialing the front reg to maximum? Thanks.
Click to expand...

If I'm not using it, may as well remove it! One less thing with parts in it that's on my mind...and honestly, it just made me angry. 

That being said, comparing the airflow restriction with just my eyeballs, the reg delete offers a path of less restriction (vs a little side channel cut on the reg screw)
 
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@kiba get what you're saying--once I swapped out to the Huma, I did a similar test but with the front reg disabled. 149.8 bar overnight for a week straight with a full 250bar bottle fill. 

Awesome yours is working but like you said, it can still get sticky from time to time...I just don't want to worry about it any longer. And for the monthly event I do, can't wait for the reg to catch up, 10-12 shots in 2 minutes and I have watched the front reg take upwards of 10-20 seconds to "catch up" which also impacted the plenum fill speed. 
 
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