Have never had a lw poly barrel but am interested in opinions on weather choked or non choked is better for pellets as I’ve read opinions on both sides and thought I might get some newer views
Tuning Lw poly barrels
- Thread starter Solo1
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Hopefully we'll get some of the barrel experts input but I can share from my minimal experience with the .177 poly in my USFT. It has a very slight choke, ie can be felt when pushing a pellet though the bore, but doesn't take much more effort to get the pellet to "pop" through the choke like many choked guns do. Anyway, the combo of poly rifling and very slight choke in this particular gun is astoundingly good at right under 20fpe with JSB 10.34gr pellets (so around 910fps).
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I just got a new Lothar Walther Polygonal barrel the other day and did some research on the different choke rates available. There are different choke diameters in each caliber, some are much tighter than others. They aren’t simply choked or not choked although I would think most are pretty standard. They can only offer so many per caliber. You really have to know what you’re getting. Like Franklin, I like the LW barrels with a very slight choke, I think these are the most common and the ones that most people like best. The theory is non choked for slugs and choked for pellets but I have plenty of choked barrels that shoot slugs very well. You just have to match the slug to the particular barrel, which sometimes takes a lot of testing with many different slugs.
Stoti
Stoti
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I have a daystate pulsar 177hp that’s excellent with nsa slugs as well as pellets. And I believe that it’s a poly choked barrel. The howlers are what I’ve been using lately with incredible results.
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I'm confused over the issue of polygonal rifling. It has always been my understanding that all polygonal barrels are the result of a hammer forging process, which results in a smooth contour of valleys, rather than the sharp grooves of cut rifling. If one looks down a Glock pistol barrel, the result can easily be seen. I've looked down several "poly" rifle barrels that were obviously quite different. The grooves appeared cut, but at a different angle. And I believe the hammer forging equipment is beyond the budget of most smaller barrel makers. So, I believe some of these barrels are not the traditional, forged polygonal product, but rather a different profile of cut or button rifling. Of course, all that matters is how they shoot, but some of the designations employed might partly be the result of creative marketing.
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Towards the bottom of the first page of this review, there's a comparison of the engraving that various rifling creates. Of course I only compared what I had available to me at the time. The difference in the rifling between the LW poly and the other traditional land and groove barrels from LW, BSA, and HW is drastic. The others all have 12 l&g if I remember correctly, the poly has I think 5 or 6 and the shape is so different that it's a stretch to call them lands and grooves. In the case of this particular barrel, the difference is pronounced and not the result of creative marketing.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/bsa-gold-star-union-jack-in-177-ongoing-review/
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elh0102 - I believe that all rifling can be created through the cutting process or hammer forging over a mandrel. LW has hammer forging capability and offers many firearm barrels that are. The production airgun barrels are all cut rifling, just different profiles. It's interesting that most are precision tubing with rifling cut into it but some seem to be gun drilled and reamed , if I'm interpreting their info correctly . They are quite a bit more expensive. Of course... if you have something special in mind but need someone to make it happen, they can make about anything you want.... just bring money 
To the OP, I have a stack of poly's and a good number of traditional rifled in various calibers. Just the little I've personally experienced, unchoked will shoot just as good but MIGHT be a little more selective about which ones do best. I've had very good accuracy from both. In the poly vs others, the pellets seemed, without exception, to have the best bc in the poly's. I have had a limited selection of FX barrels to compare but while these were better than traditional rifled , poly still yielded best bc's. They also seemed to be more forgiving with velocity. Since LW are the easiest for me to get, most of what I have done has been with them and my approach is for short range or lower powers.... traditional. For longer range or higher velocities... poly. I think careful prep will be the main factor most of the time for best accuracy but consistent bore and bore size are important as well .
Bob
To the OP, I have a stack of poly's and a good number of traditional rifled in various calibers. Just the little I've personally experienced, unchoked will shoot just as good but MIGHT be a little more selective about which ones do best. I've had very good accuracy from both. In the poly vs others, the pellets seemed, without exception, to have the best bc in the poly's. I have had a limited selection of FX barrels to compare but while these were better than traditional rifled , poly still yielded best bc's. They also seemed to be more forgiving with velocity. Since LW are the easiest for me to get, most of what I have done has been with them and my approach is for short range or lower powers.... traditional. For longer range or higher velocities... poly. I think careful prep will be the main factor most of the time for best accuracy but consistent bore and bore size are important as well .
Bob
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I didn't mean to imply that LW, or any other maker is lying about producing poly barrels, but rather, what is a polygonal barrel? Its European origin is founded on the technique of hammer forging. Some of the poly barrels I have seen are the result of button rifling, but with a button that leaves a profile similar to what I will call the original hammer forged barrels, but at the same time noticeably different. Again, all that matters is how they shoot, but there might be a manufacturing process in use that needs a different name.
Gary Schneider makes fine barrels. if you visit his site, he discusses their "P5" barrel profile. As his other barrels, it is a button rifled barrel, but uses a button than produces a smooth contour, similar to the traditional polygonal barrel. He said that his customers began calling it a poly barrel, and the name stuck, although it was not the reference intended by the P. Lots of interesting trivia about barrels out there.
Gary Schneider makes fine barrels. if you visit his site, he discusses their "P5" barrel profile. As his other barrels, it is a button rifled barrel, but uses a button than produces a smooth contour, similar to the traditional polygonal barrel. He said that his customers began calling it a poly barrel, and the name stuck, although it was not the reference intended by the P. Lots of interesting trivia about barrels out there.
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I didn't interpret it that way. I think you're right about the profile but if you push a pellet through it, the result is a 5 or 6 sided pellet but not in the same way as it would look if pushed through... say an HK pistol barrel. My only airgun poly barrel experience is LW, and I know they are not hammer forged.
I picked up from somewhere that the barrels come out of the machine looking like pretzels and must be straightened. Lots of stresses in the final if thats the case.
Another interesting bit... a Daystate employee back in the 90s told me that they would get a pallet of BSA barrels and go through them and keep about 1/3 and send the rest back to BSA. He didn't relate how they were selected but the Daystates of that era are still considered to be very accurate. I also have had very good accuracy from several Korean rifles... Shin Sung, Eun Jin , and Sam Yang, as well as Steyr Lg100 and all are hammer forged . The Steyr barrel was like glass inside but the Korean's seemed to be as forged with definite mandrel marks and no sign of lapping. They did not lead up easily and the bore size was very consistent . Contrast that to several TJ's I've tinkered with ... very rough and needed a lot of tlc.
There is DEFINITELY a lot about barrels that is interesting.
Bob
I picked up from somewhere that the barrels come out of the machine looking like pretzels and must be straightened. Lots of stresses in the final if thats the case.
Another interesting bit... a Daystate employee back in the 90s told me that they would get a pallet of BSA barrels and go through them and keep about 1/3 and send the rest back to BSA. He didn't relate how they were selected but the Daystates of that era are still considered to be very accurate. I also have had very good accuracy from several Korean rifles... Shin Sung, Eun Jin , and Sam Yang, as well as Steyr Lg100 and all are hammer forged . The Steyr barrel was like glass inside but the Korean's seemed to be as forged with definite mandrel marks and no sign of lapping. They did not lead up easily and the bore size was very consistent . Contrast that to several TJ's I've tinkered with ... very rough and needed a lot of tlc.
There is DEFINITELY a lot about barrels that is interesting.
Bob
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Very interesting and informative conversation going on so far thanks for the info all as I have no experience in poly and am looking forward to getting 1 built for my rifle. Any other comments will be greatly appreciated
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elh0102 - I believe that all rifling can be created through the cutting process or hammer forging over a mandrel. LW has hammer forging capability and offers many firearm barrels that are. The production airgun barrels are all cut rifling, just different profiles. It's interesting that most are precision tubing with rifling cut into it but some seem to be gun drilled and reamed , if I'm interpreting their info correctly . They are quite a bit more expensive. Of course... if you have something special in mind but need someone to make it happen, they can make about anything you want.... just bring money
You may be correct, I'm no expert on barrel making. But, after looking down the bore of some traditional poly barrels, such as Glock, I'll just be darned if I can imagine how a cutting process could produce it. And they were originally described as requiring hammer forging production. Or maybe that was just hype. I'll add it to my list of things I don't understand, and the list is getting might long!
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In all matters regarding airgun barrels I defer to Arzrover, but I do have to agree that the "look" of a poly makes it seem not cut. Maybe part of the process is that they polish out the cut edges after the rifling is made?
There's a Daystate ART polygonal, a 12 land and groove CZ barrel, and a 12 land and groove LW barrel leaning in a corner at my work bench, all in .22. I might see if I can get some decent photos of the rifling profiles and push a few pellets through to compare. Depending on how those photos turn out, I'll start a topic showing the differences and similarities. Maybe the .larger .22 will make the differences more visible than they were in the .177 comparison I did last year.
There's a Daystate ART polygonal, a 12 land and groove CZ barrel, and a 12 land and groove LW barrel leaning in a corner at my work bench, all in .22. I might see if I can get some decent photos of the rifling profiles and push a few pellets through to compare. Depending on how those photos turn out, I'll start a topic showing the differences and similarities. Maybe the .larger .22 will make the differences more visible than they were in the .177 comparison I did last year.
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I think the question might be better asked….what barrel rifling has a better BC.
the LW poly 25cal barrel on my raw shoots jsb pellet with jaw dropping accuracy. No choke.
the traditional rifled LW choked barrel on my ataman is also exceptional. However, that’s in .22
I would like to compare equal barrels traditional and poly to see if the BC is better in poly barrel. I think it is.
that along in windy conditions would give you a better shooting pellet barrel.
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After reading most of franklink’s review of the bsa he had done tests that proved the poly barrel had better bc. I think at this point in time I’ll go with a 177 lw choked poly barrel as my next project unless Martin at Airguns USA thinks he can make a 20 cal barrel and pin probe for my maverick. They won’t let me shoot slugs in ft so I’ve got to find the highest bc setup I can as I suck at judging wind! Lol
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@Solo1, I was following that slug discussion in the FT area, and your desires to acquire a nice shooting setup for field target.
As a data point for you to consider.....I've shot both .177 and .20 in field target matches so can compare them a bit. I know the .20 has it's fans (and I'm one of them) but I would rather shoot my .177 with the poly barrel and the 10.34s on a windy match day than the .20 and the 13.73grain pellets. I think the best I've done with the .20 was something like 46/48. I've shot more than 1 clean match with the .177/poly. Granted, that's a bit of a numbers thing, as I've shot more matches with the .177/poly than I have with the .20 but I've noticed generally needing to hold off just a bit more with the .20 than I do with the .177. The difference in required hold off is small, but in my n of 1 of each barrel, does exist.
Caveat: I feel like airgun barrels are their own entities, each having it's own idiosyncrasies, preferences, and behaviors. In this case, they are both equally accurate, but the specific .20 barrel that I have needs just a bit more hold off than the specific177 poly that I have. Other examples of .20 and .177 barrels may not share the same characteristics as these two specific barrels. In other words, two other barrels with the same specs (a .177 poly versus a .20) may have the .20 shooting slightly better in the wind than the .177 poly.
2nd caveat: to my knowledge, a .20 lothar polygonal barrel does not exist, if it did, I suspect it would be an amazing barrel for field target.
As a data point for you to consider.....I've shot both .177 and .20 in field target matches so can compare them a bit. I know the .20 has it's fans (and I'm one of them) but I would rather shoot my .177 with the poly barrel and the 10.34s on a windy match day than the .20 and the 13.73grain pellets. I think the best I've done with the .20 was something like 46/48. I've shot more than 1 clean match with the .177/poly. Granted, that's a bit of a numbers thing, as I've shot more matches with the .177/poly than I have with the .20 but I've noticed generally needing to hold off just a bit more with the .20 than I do with the .177. The difference in required hold off is small, but in my n of 1 of each barrel, does exist.
Caveat: I feel like airgun barrels are their own entities, each having it's own idiosyncrasies, preferences, and behaviors. In this case, they are both equally accurate, but the specific .20 barrel that I have needs just a bit more hold off than the specific177 poly that I have. Other examples of .20 and .177 barrels may not share the same characteristics as these two specific barrels. In other words, two other barrels with the same specs (a .177 poly versus a .20) may have the .20 shooting slightly better in the wind than the .177 poly.
2nd caveat: to my knowledge, a .20 lothar polygonal barrel does not exist, if it did, I suspect it would be an amazing barrel for field target.
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@franklink you are indeed correct about the 20 poly not being made. It would have to be rifled. And very much agree with many of the things you have said that I have read this evening. I was reading some of your older threads before I came back here. I would like to mention to you about slugs and pellets that I believe that at this point in time slugs are not as forgiving of the shooter as pellets are and I think slugs have a slightly longer dwell tome than pellets that gives the shooter more time to screw up. Lol. But I agree I will most likely end up with a poly 177 to test. At least as of now I’ve got every type of ammo in 177 that anyone would want to shoot in ft so I have that end covered 
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