Do you guys think that LW makes 177cal barrels better than 22cal ones or vice versa?
LW Barrels
- Thread starter josh3rd
- Start date
I just don't really know but here are my three attempts to get a good .22 LW barrel on my SK-19. Although to be fair the post office probly did the center one. From all that I have heard I thought they were posed to be decent quality. Sure does not look that way from here.
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pretty sure they use the same process to produce all their barrels .. dont confuse 2nd party shoddy machine work with the quality of the base product blank ... it takes a skilled machinist with a nice lathe to produce a quality barrel ... some jkoff with a cnc that really isnt that skilled likely isnt going to be making anything special ...
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I've ordered a few blanks from Lothar Walther and fitted them to my guns. All were very smooth inside, bore was almost perfectly centered within the blank, and they all ended up being lights out accurate. One in .177 and the other two were in .22
None of mine had any of the marks inside on the rifling like the pics show. Those could very well have been made by a tool with a pilot that fitted inside the bore, or even from chips rolling in the bore while facing off or crowning the barrel.
My point is, I think they are great barrels when the blank is machined and finished correctly. And that comes down to the manufacturer finishing the blanks, not Lothar Walther.
A blank is one thing, and a finished barrel from a blank is another.
If a guy in his garage (even a lazy eyed one like me) can turn out a stellar shooting one with a Chinese mini-lathe and some good measuring tools, any big manufacturer should be able to do it too. Whether they take the time to do it right, is on them.
None of mine had any of the marks inside on the rifling like the pics show. Those could very well have been made by a tool with a pilot that fitted inside the bore, or even from chips rolling in the bore while facing off or crowning the barrel.
My point is, I think they are great barrels when the blank is machined and finished correctly. And that comes down to the manufacturer finishing the blanks, not Lothar Walther.
A blank is one thing, and a finished barrel from a blank is another.
If a guy in his garage (even a lazy eyed one like me) can turn out a stellar shooting one with a Chinese mini-lathe and some good measuring tools, any big manufacturer should be able to do it too. Whether they take the time to do it right, is on them.
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The poly I mentioned above was ordered from a blank also, had a machine shop turn it down to fit my gun then did the crown and leade myself.
Agree the manufacturer can mess anything up and wouldn't automatically blame LW.
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Pretty sure LW barrels are usually pretty good. LW barrels on my crosman guns are super accurate. As other has said machining and handling of the barrel will have great potential to damage them.
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I assume LW ships a typical blank, so the maker would cut and machine the shank for their receiver. Since they sell choked blanks, the muzzle would not be cut, so the crown could be done there, don't know.
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That I don't know. But there are a lot of other companies that use LW barrels that rarely have issues like that. Air Arms being a very long time user, as well as Daystate.
It would be interesting to find out though. Maybe send LCS an email and ask them?
They do however make drop in barrels for many rimfire and centerfire guns and are generally pretty well regarded.
I'm not playing the LW fanboi here by any means, don't want it to seem that way, LOL
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I was more than surprised these did not shoot as bad as they looked. Still they did have quite a few more flyers than the norm. But cleaning the lead build up out of them was really a pain.
Most of my LW barrel shoot lights out.
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Heres a line copied directly from their website:
"In order to achieve extraordinary goals, LCS uses very precise LotharWalther barrels and our revolutionary barrel processing technology makes the Sk-19
even more successful."
http://www.lcsairarms.com/
Sure sounds like they process them in house to me, and that confirms my suspicions. From my tinkering, that crown looks like the ones I did when I had a dull tool and had the barrel running too fast in the lathe. All speculation of course, I wasn't there and don't actually know.
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I've got 4 that are all excellent shooters. 177 and 22, all have very smoothaabdnu uniform bores/chokes
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For the most part all those problems are from the person finishing out the barrels, which is generally not LW. The router and other metal working bits for the machines are insanely expensive. Cheap people carry the bit life too far giving really poor performance on the machining. Profits go up as product quality goes down.
This is the dance all metal product manufacturers play. If you get a product made after a bit changes you get top quality. If you get one made just before the bit change you get the worst.
This is the dance all metal product manufacturers play. If you get a product made after a bit changes you get top quality. If you get one made just before the bit change you get the worst.
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Nothing beats the LW barrel in my R5M. I can't believe it is so accurate. It is absolutely just as accurate as the best FX. JUST KEEP IT CLEAN! Many of the LW .22 are very very good. I think that LW puts most of their R&D into the .22cal, not as much as .177, .25, or .30. In .25 CZ is better than LW; in .30 FX is better than LW. I know the sub 12fpe guy love their .177 LW barrels, although. Only .177 I really really liked was a Wehrmacht which is a LW, I think.
Those are just my observations and opinion.
Those are just my observations and opinion.
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This discussion brings up a question for me as well. As we all know, some air rifle barrels are threaded at the muzzle to accommodate an air stripper or moderator. I'm curious if, in that application, the barrel maker would do the threading. I've had several precision gunsmiths tell me that threading a finished muzzle is always risky, as it can alter the internal dimensions enough to affect accuracy. As metal is removed on the outside, the bore becomes larger. The only really bad barrel I've had was threaded at the muzzle, on a Red Wolf. AOA gave me another non-threaded barrel, and it shoots great. The problem could have been unrelated to the threading, I've no way of knowing. Just curious if anyone has had a similar experience, and, if anyone knows who generally does such muzzle threading. If the barrel maker does it, when in the process is it done? To avoid the risk described to me, seems it would have to be done before the rifling is cut, or hammer forged and stress relieved.
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Yes, that is absolutely possible. Though, what I was told was the opposite.... that the bore might become crowded. One of my TJ barrels got destroyed when I had it threaded. It was already very short, and USPS finished it off for me while trying to get it chopped and re-choked.
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I'm not a machinist, so I can't tell you from experience. But two precIsion smiths whom I respect, said the bore diameter may increase with the external threading. Regardless, I guess the important thing, it apparently can alter it enough to affect accuracy. I had the bad experience with the threaded Red Wolf barrel. But, my HW100 barrel and Veteran barrel are also threaded, and shoot great. Which makes me wonder, who does the threading, and when? Ideally, it seems the threading should be done before the rifling work, but I don't know if that's possible.
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A lot of it is about affecting the harmonics of the barrel. Barrels are a bit like a tuning fork. They are very sensitive to changes in vibration. You can notice that in how subtly a "tuner" works on the end of the barrel of a benchrest rifle. A couple of clicks can move group size and POI all over. Change ammo and it is all different. Then you have the guys placing a small piece of rubber or gasket material between the stock and barrel as a cheapo tuner. It can have substantial effect on some barrels and no effect on others. Barrels are real funny animals. What affects one barrel may not affect the next 50 off the same line.
Messing with barrels postproduction is a real risky situation. Moderators are one of the cheapest pieces of junk in the airgun world. If you look at the crummy baffling inside on most, the manufacturer must get them for a couple bucks’ tops. They are just not something I would want topping off my barrel on a $1200 to $2200 PCP. They should be shrouding the barrels but moderators lower cost to consumers and raise profits.
Messing with barrels postproduction is a real risky situation. Moderators are one of the cheapest pieces of junk in the airgun world. If you look at the crummy baffling inside on most, the manufacturer must get them for a couple bucks’ tops. They are just not something I would want topping off my barrel on a $1200 to $2200 PCP. They should be shrouding the barrels but moderators lower cost to consumers and raise profits.
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