looking to buy a bullpup but which one?

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"arod2000"
"Kgb1024"
I have given you an app that does peak values and is a great app for sound but you refuse to download it. So here I am challenging you to prove me wrong. Download db meter pro and do your test again.
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No. That app cost a whopping $2 and while I'll spend $1,500 on a gun I won't spend $2 on an app for the sake of an internet forum argument. I've spent enough time trying to help random people on the internet. It's not really like helping my neighbor so I'm done with it. 

I've said numerous times the WC .25 is noticeably and obviously quieter than my FX Whisper .25 and my neighbors Marauder .25. I don't need any instrument to prove that my ears and my neighbors ears are working properly and I don't care if you believe me. 





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Arod,
its not an arguement in fact I was simply trying to tell you yesterday that 60 -70 db's is really quiet, not air gun quite and your app wasn't made to measure peak sound like the sound of a gun. The app I told you about would give you a better reading.
i don't own any FX guns but almost bought a bobcat but went with a cricket. I really like the wc but that impact is gonna be awesome. FX is a great AG manufacture. You said you want to help people, so do I, and was trying to help you get a more accurate reading. Anyway, I think you can see my cricket had the same reading as your wc I was inside in a closed room. Everyone can make their own opinion and sorry if you thought I was arguing, I was only trying to help you get a better reading so you could help people as you have the gun.
I wish you the best with it!
 
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if there is anyone in the Northern Virginia area, DC, or MD with a WildCat .25 or .22 I am willing to pick up a REAL DB meter to get real world results and we can put the whole thing on video. That will solve the question on that in a hurry. I am not affiliated with anyone and am just an individual who loves science and facts. 
 
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KGB, Arod, cool tests and demonstrations. $2 buck app looks like better performer. The video Arod did was very helpful, but I think the KGB video did a really good job demonstrating why the db meter pro is better. I don't really care who's gun is quietest or loudest. I care to find a reliable reference or measurement of how loud a gun is and the measurement in one place of the same gun is going to be the same measurement in Tennessee as it is in Washington state. That way I'll know the gun that I buy is going to be the quietest. Why is that important? I dunno. I just want a really quiet gun that'll hit a gnats ass at 50 yards. If I could get that at under $1500 then that would be ideal. I don't want to stir anything up about who's app is better. Or who's gun is quietest. Just gain the most accurate measurement possible with a less than ideal tool so I can make an accurate decision on what gun I want to drop my coin on. 

About those unkind posts, what other posts, I only read the nice stuff. All ya'all that are helping and giving information and sharing your opinions- thanks! Keep it up. 
 
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"Leaddy"
"Michael"
That is not why he was banned. We have plenty of documentation to support our decision. If I recall correctly, you too had some very unkind things to say about Ted, myself, & AGN on your home... the Talon forum. Tread lightly
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I've been pretty polite while on this forum out of respect. I never spoke my mind like I did at "my home". Banning keyser was a dick move on your and teds part. A forum will not succeed when all opinions cannot be voiced. 
Keyser opinion is well regarded in the community, he's not a fanboy or company man like many of you. He's just putting out positive reviews of your competition. I suppose that's not acceptable.

Michael your douchebaggery is limitless. Your nothing but a yes man Hiding behind your keyboard, watching all of us delinquents on TAG post negative comments about you and yours. Then threaten us when we don't tow your line. Well **** you and your line!!


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Yet another example of the classy people we have the pleasure of dealing with.

Some people are like a virus, which if left untreated can spread to everything around them.

We've seen it happen on other forums, and we will not tolerate it here.
 
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Ted & Michael - Well done for standing up for yourselves. This forum needs moderators that don't stand for crap. Being biased towards one brand because of past experiences is somewhat understandable, but I totally agree that when deformation of character starts to creep in that things have gone too far! I think you've handled the situation very maturely. This is the only forum where I feel like I'm going to get honest answers. You are probably the only guys that are COMPLETELY unbiased. Ted could have "sold out" to any one manufacturer long ago, but he didn't. To remain neutral for the sake of honesty and integrity is something I hope to model from you. Michael has been absolutely on the ball with the forum, helping guys out and pointing them in the right direction. Well done and thank you for your service!
 
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Getting back to the topic ... I say get a cricket . Heaps of fun to shoot and easy to take apart and service if need be . Have had one for two years now . Had Wingmam set it up and it has been going great . I am right handed but shoot left and have no complaints .......

if if I had to look for another rile I would look at a Daystate .303,

HK 
 
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snakedoctor9The P12 from mrodair looks pretty sweet. If it had a magazine I might shell out the $ for that sucker.

Ted, when are we going to see more huntingjvideos?
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Yeah I got a price on the mrod version with multi shot breach in .22 caliber .the price was sub 800$ ,785$ if I remember correctly. I would have to have a regulator added but I'm sure that would put it at the 900$ mark which probably isn't bad.I'm just soo afraid buying one and it being sub par or having issues.
 
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"Kgb1024"
I will show you your gun is not that quiet, i am not saying it is not a good gun, but you are pushing BS info.
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Just watched your video again, not even close to a comparison to what I did because I put my phone in front of the gun. 3 feet in front and 3 to the side. approximately. Your gun is pointed down and the phone is behind the gun. And you're inside. And i don't think you have a pellet loaded. Just pointing this out since the "BS you're pushing" is really -and obviously- flawed. If YOU care to redo your test and see what the free meter scores then great, good for you. Maybe someone cares. I don't and I have no desire to do anything further.

I've said several times that it's quieter than a Marauder and an FX Whisper. If someone wants to believe that they will. If not they won't. 
 
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Arod,
Like I said before, I wasn't starting an argument, maybe I should have worded that differently (the BS part) I am sorry if I offended you, my video was just to show that the app used didn't register peak values. I was merely measuring a sound. I fired the gun in the same direction with both tests, the same distance away, in the same conditions. one app read 67 db's the other 107 db's. I just wanted to get to the people and myself a better idea of the noise level.

Let's start over, I am not trying to make enemies, I value your information, as I don't have the WC, but would love to know true specs of it. I am not asking you to do anything else, I am sure someone will post their findings as well.

Here are a couple articles about db apps compared to a real meter ( scientific ). Although the app I suggested met their criteria it was not the very best but was very close to the sound meter. 

http://scitation.aip.org/content/asa/journal/jasa/135/4/10.1121/1.4865269
http://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2014/04/09/sound-apps/


I hope you find this information useful and I hope we can be friendly, as I value everyone here, we all have one thing in common. We all love AGing.

edit: ****The other day I was asking you to use the other app just to see the results.....That's all****
 
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Here are a couple articles about db apps compared to a real meter ( scientific ). Although the app I suggested met their criteria it was not the very best but was very close to the sound meter. 

http://scitation.aip.org/content/asa/journal/jasa/135/4/10.1121/1.4865269
http://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2014/04/09/sound-apps/
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Thanks for the two links to sound app evaluations for smartphones. If I understood what I read, It looks like choice comes down to two apps, SoundMeter and SPLnFFT with the first being Android and the second being for iPhones. I cannot tell the relative loudness of my airguns from a neighbor's perspective when I am shooting by myself. Its not just my bad hearing and the "shooter's perspective", but the interaction of pitch and volume that determine the unpleasantness or intrusiveness of a shot sound. I would like to have an objective measure as a starting point. (Now I just ask my wife who is difficult to calibrate and not always available due to lack of interest ((in airguns, of course! Why would you even ask?))).

Since I have an iPhone, I will try the SPLnFFT (catchy name--had to be named by an engineer). I have a Wildcat .25 and I will get a sound level and post it. What is the best position from which to measure? or is this a question for another thread?
 
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Great response kgb, we all get a little empassioned at times and don't even realize how we come off, especially in the written word. Your intention is well understood and your appology is spot on. I downloaded the app you suggested and having a peak meter is very helpful and may give us a clearer answer to our curiosity about the sound of the Wildcat .25.

Also wanted to thank arod for sharing his information and encourage him to continue to do so. I too posted on youtube for the first time with much trepidation. Ted has been a great fountain of knowledge for us and an encourager. 

Running the risk of getting a bit "touchy feely" but hey let's be sensitive to one another and take the info shared at face value. Take what is good and resonates with our own experiences and leave the rest. Let's not act in ways that stop the natural flow of information sharing. 

Not saying to hold hands and sing a hymn together either because I also believe that if there isn't a little rub, then we are not playing hard enough.

 
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"skygear"Ted, are you using the Mark 2 Bobcat? From what I was gathering, since mark 2 had the fill port in the front using a probe, it was NOT a removable bottle under pressure. Am I mistaken? 

My plan is to get the Bobcat Mark2 that I already have on order with AoA and then work on getting the Impact. The higher shot count per fill really is the main selling point so far between the BC & WC for me so far. Using the same barrel, smooth twist, I can't see too much changing in the accuracy department between the two. 

You mentioned the BC has the adjustable power levels. On the Mark 2 there are 2 if I am not mistaken. The WC does not have the wheel? I guess I was getting confused with the Impact having the 5 power adjustment wheel. BC, WC and Impact are all 3 internally regulated now. The Impact having the bottle able to hold a charge off the gun is a huge selling point for me also. I can see having a second CF bottle on hand instead of bringing my 4500psi CF tank to refill whats on the gun. 

Price points... Well,
BC mark 2 in .25 starts @ ~1750 available now 
-- higher shot count and higher (470) capacity air tube
WC in .25 is @ ~1300 Slowly shipping NOW
-- smaller air tube (300?)
Impact .25 without the rest of the barrels is @ ~1900 preorder for September
-- CF air tank in 470 for the same capacity as the BC


With the Impact, there leaves some questions on holding zero. Also for different calibers. Am I going to get a separate scope and rings/ quick disconnect rings for each calibre I want to not have to readjust the scope each time for the respective calibers? Will it hold zero after a calibre switch and then back to the starting caliber? Since the Impact is using an AR style design. There are already Off the shelf grips for it. Having the side rails already will allow for some better night illumination options without additional drilling/ tinkering with the platform. Bottom too for the bipod or if someone wants to get true AR style, a Grip Pod.

My shooting style is this. I like to grab and go. Most of the time I might not have time to readjust zero and then take a shot. Lots of the time I am running and find myself with a very limited hunt time and am able to get off a couple shots before I have to leave. Then the gun is put away and when I take her out the next time I want to be ready to knock them down with little setup. 


I'm not a fan boy/ Was considering the Benjamin Bull Dog at one point. Ugly factor kicked in...

Just for info, the Bobcat Mk2 does have a removable bottle that stays pressurized and if you get it in .22 the power wheel has 3 settings. 

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Nelo, well said. I totally agree with everything you said.
Arod and KGB, I can't speak for the others but I read and re-read your posts. Part of posting in a forum like this is just chatting with others about a hobby. To some extent like in this thread as mentors sharing experience and educating noobs like me. Just something to think about when posting. I look forward to reading more from both of you and I appreciate everyone's help so far. Researching the right gun is daunting and making sure that I get the one that suits me best is sometimes confusing, a little frightening when considering the cost. So I am very happy to have found this forum and Dodge3500's thread here.

Back on topic, there is another thread recently started discussing how we could or should go about measuring sound. http://airgunnation.dev/topic/air-rifle-sound-testing/

I forgot who posted but the fact that the Vulcan pup comes with a case and two mags is another big positive in its favor.

I keep looking at that darn American Air Arms page, if only they were producing all their guns now... December seems so far away.

Edited: Forgot to thank Nello
 
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"looknup"
Here are a couple articles about db apps compared to a real meter ( scientific ). Although the app I suggested met their criteria it was not the very best but was very close to the sound meter. 

http://scitation.aip.org/content/asa/journal/jasa/135/4/10.1121/1.4865269
http://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2014/04/09/sound-apps/
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Thanks for the two links to sound app evaluations for smartphones. If I understood what I read, It looks like choice comes down to two apps, SoundMeter and SPLnFFT with the first being Android and the second being for iPhones. I cannot tell the relative loudness of my airguns from a neighbor's perspective when I am shooting by myself. Its not just my bad hearing and the "shooter's perspective", but the interaction of pitch and volume that determine the unpleasantness or intrusiveness of a shot sound. I would like to have an objective measure as a starting point. (Now I just ask my wife who is difficult to calibrate and not always available due to lack of interest ((in airguns, of course! Why would you even ask?))).

Since I have an iPhone, I will try the SPLnFFT (catchy name--had to be named by an engineer). I have a Wildcat .25 and I will get a sound level and post it. What is the best position from which to measure? or is this a question for another thread?
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You are welcome for the links and I look forward to your results, as I am generally interested to know. 

 
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Back to "Looking to buy a bullpup but which one?" I have a Wildcat and I like it! It is not loud but I really can’t tell if it is as quiet as my Cricket. I know it is a lot lighter than the Cricket and much easier to change magazines. I like the stock. I wonder if the cheek rest could be lower or customised as it holds me a little higher than I would like for medium scope mounts. It is very accurate and a foot shorter than my Royale 500. The metal finish is not as good or at least not as shiney as the finish on the Royale. I guess you could call the finish tactical or matte. It feels to me more like a carbine than most bullpups. I am between Wildcat and Vulcan. The new gun I don't own always interests me.
 
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