Thank you Ed. So the GOST referenced requires only a 1.5x margin of safety. Interesting. Good luck convincing anyone here that this margin of safety is sufficient especially when the industry standard for pressure vessels in other countries is a 2.5x-3x margin. I'm not questioning your expertise or experience here. I'm saying this is a matter of perception that will be really hard to overcome at this point. Why not overengineer this part by making it a little thicker? It's not like we're launching it into space and fighting for every gram here. Give it some additional wall thickness at the expense of a few CCs of internal volume. The users of your products will feel safer even if they are in fact safe enough already.
Also you're assuming that the end users will never have access to compressed air at over 300bar in the real world. This is no longer true. We now have an inexpensive Chinese compressor on the market that can produce 400bar. I'd say the chance of someone using that compressor to fill their Leshiy to 400 bar or over is quite real, either through ignorance, human error or even something like an autostop function failure...
Really?! Could you give me the standard for PCP reservoirs of volume less than 1 liters, where they say "2.5 - 3"?! I gave you the link to the Standard we use, you can check it out. I would really appreciate it. And then go to your gun stock, take anyt of your PCP guns, or hight pressure tank, made not in Russia, where the Standards are not right and see what is the working pressure and what is the test pressue, then devide the second by the first and tell me what figure you'd get. 1.5?! What?! That is a real plot against the airgunners!
About 400 bar compressors and higher. You know, I am used to work with the normal people, who are able to read the simple things in few lines, like "working pressure is 300 bar" and, being the adequate people follow that. One can even fill the reservoir with the gas and then make ingition of it in order to get more power, accidently or on purpose. The only thing I can do in this case -- to award it with the Darvin price. That is his choise, i am not a babysitter to a 5 years old kid.
Unfortunatelly many people consider themselves as the profeccionals, based on what they have read somewhere in Internet, or heard from somebody, being unable even to go to the primery sourse of the informaton and read it themselves. Would be really happy of getting the link to the "right" standard saying about 2.5 -- 3 times margine of safety! In case we are talking about the same things...
this thread has been running for 2 months now ?
And it will run for another couple of months, for sure
Enjoy, as I do!
I'm not questioning the wisdom of Soviet scientists who put it in place either. Others will and it will result in lost sales for Ed. That was my point.
Don't worry about my sales, we are talking about safety here, don't we? I gave the figures. Do you have anything about them?
One thing I just don't get, is the lack of communication regarding the nature of the incident. Dave was clearly willing to cooperate, given the fact that he came through with the parts for examination. And yet, we have been left completely in the dark about the cicumstances. Which is one reason why speculation has been running rampant. Some simple, basic information that doesn't require lab equipment and math skills would already go a long way.
If Dave did something to the gun he wasn't supposed to, then this should easily be cleared up with a few simple questions. Did you use anything other than dry compressed air? Did you drop the rifle? Did you assemble the gun yourself? Did the gun explode upon firing, or in between shots? Did you overfill at one point?
I get that this kind of information won't be available day 1, but it's been months!
You are completely right, it took long time, due to the reasons I’ve told above. Dave and I was in contact all the time while the parcel went to Russia. Besides I told in the beginning that when the parcel will arrive, I will inform about it. It arrived on 20th of April.
Here is the screenshot of our conversation in WhatsApp, when I informed him about the parts arrived.
I was out of home and when I’ve arrived I put that photo in this thread, you can see it on page 17. What wrong did I? Do you think I should report every week in this thread “The parcel is on the way?” Really? I think we are all men, normal men, patient and able to wait. Was I mistaken?
Regardless of some of the (unnecessary) politically charged comments, or Ed's detailed rebuttal, I do not think it's fair to call the reaction seen so far "hysterical". People are simply worried, and rightfully so. This incident could have easily been fatal. There are very, VERY few documented cases of PCP rifles exploding. One case I was able to find was from Pyramid air, and it's clear that this was due to a grave user error:
"Pyramyd Air has a Korean rifle in their possession that a customer tried to operate on pure oxygen". Spoiler alert: It blew up, lol.
I don't know about the history of Marko, Lukaz and so on, but I think it's more than fair that independant parties are doing their own investigations, if only to provide a second opinion. These attempts should not simply be brushed off. Worst case, they may end up being wrong, but being wrong does not mean it didn't contribute to getting closer to what actually happened.
It wasn’t me who first mentioned Putin in this thread
You are right, we don’t need the politicians, since we all are joined just by one hobby and that is it. I call it as I see it, almost 10 pages on nothing but emotions and speculations up to the “I put my gun on the shelf and will not use it!” Well, buddy, you’ve been using it for time and what happened?! Somebody told you that is dangerous? Haven’t you known that high pressure can be dangerous before?
Right, it could be fatal, but before we got the information what was the reason, all speculations on this should be stopped, shouldn’t they? The principle of innocents doesn’t work in the West world anymore?
I completely agree with you that it is normal that second parts can take steps in getting knowing what has happened or what might happen based on the information they have but not to make a conclusions. Marko used the wrong modeling, based on that made a wrong conclusion, Ed should be executed, all his guns demolished, period, let’s go back homes… Right?
Thanks for the update ED. Finally getting a signal thru all the noise.
If I read correctly you seem to think there was a combustion event of some sort?
DT
Alwyas welcome, I am here and always ready to comment and answer any questions
"On the other hand, if we try to observe the situation like cool-headed men, not like hysterical women in PMS days"
Comparing people to this thread to hysterical women on their period....stay classy....
"The modern aluminum alloys gives the necessary strength, resistance to the cycling load and long life of the reservoirs. That is obvious and I have no intention just to try to talk anybody into it."
Pushing 300 bar on aluminum with some of the dimensions provided by Marko's discovery is NOT ideal, you can't argue that since aluminum CAN be sufficient, that in your case it IS sufficient...it was proven that it's lacking material strength given the circumstances. Your material SHOULD NOT have yielded, so what if it didn't burst? Clearly you miss the point Marko is making.
I could go on, but I won't waste any more time here, its clear ED is using divisive techniques to make people who question the integrity of his product appear like fools...making statements such as the average IQ is that of the dumbest person in the mob...this is not scientific fact nor how intelligence works or is averaged among groups or "mobs"...
If something is flying like a duck, swimming like a duck, sounds like a duck, most likely it is a duck
Why are you 100 % sure that Marko discovery is 100 % right and my arguments are 100 % wrong? That is because I am Russian?!
I am kidding, but try, at least, to show the objective way of considering the situation. You have Marko conclusions and now you have mine. If you are not familiar with this sphere of life that what we are talking about? If you are -- check and make your own conclusion.
The material doesn't yield at the ranage of the working and test pressures. What wrong did I do? It yields at the pressure above that? And, so? Do you expect it should not yield up to 1 000 bar? Based on what? I didn't miss the point, Marko has used the wrong model and got the wroong results which contradicte his own physical tests. My calculations meet the physical tests. And, which way should we go?
Ok fair enough I used a linear load case and not nonlinear as pressure vessels are not something I simulate every day. I can easily admit my mistake as this is not my area of expertise, but I know enough about materials and stress in the material to be concerned.
But then to the ridiculous accusations about someone using me? Who is this Lukas?
I'm from Finland, airgun hobbyist and mechanical engineer. Usually work with different stuff, mainly in the prototyping field.
Don't write long novels to distract people from the subject so if you excuse me for that.
Nonlinear static test
Edit: sorry for the stress numbers being so in the side, highest number is 414Mpa I can post a better pic if needed.
What I find interesting is that at 30Mpa or 300bar pressure the test shows higher loads than yours at 650bar, that picture is from the maximum load from the test, and still the sharp corner is the most stressed area.
Then to the gun being from this mysterious Lukas or Lukaz or who the f*ck it might be
Gun was bought by a friend,
Edgun Leshoy 2 bought from Riistamaa Oy Finland
Serial number visible.
You provided the connector for the valve as warranty when it broke. Look it up if you must.
I have no hidden agenda, just want to he sure the airtubes are safe, have said it on video and in the forums.
There are people who have followed my work and endeavors with airguns and should be able to tell you what I do.
The reason I made the videos was the fact that you gave no information and no progress for a long time on the subject.
Only after my videos and forum posts something happened.
Then to the part about you saying I tried to destroy the air cylinders, that is untrue as I only wanted to see where it yielded the most, and yes as tou said it yields the most from the point of the o ring. But that is still not the point of most stress.
As you well know stress risers induce stress cracking eventually and that is the main concern I have for the sharp corner.
Can you say for 100% confidence that all the cylinders are proper material, and what material are the cylinders?
That no corners where not cut during production by say a subcontractor?
Marko
Marko I really happy that you are here and we can talk face to face. Yes, you are right, this gun was sold to Finland and Lukaz is not connected to that, sorry for being a little be playing with all that, just to give more life to the thread. I really appreciate you’ve admitted that it is not your sphere of expertise, such a relief. It is always easy to talk with the professional who is interested in the result.
You simulation shows the higher load, OK, but how does it meet the physical test? Does it? If not – may be the model is wrong again? In our calculations we got exactly the same picture in the real life as we have in the calculation.
I got your reason and I’ve explained already above why. I do hope that you accept that explanation and will not think that it was the attempt to hide the truth? It is not happened because of your video or forum, that is just coincidence, it happened just because I, finally, got the parts
In fact, there are not sharp coners, that is impossible to make them sharp even if we do it especially. But I understand your concern.
Yes, I can say that we test EVERY batch of the material we buy with the hydraulic test and no one time we managed to destroy it at the pressure about 700 bar. If it happens, no doubt the whole batch of the material would be rejected without any doubt.
One more thing. You’ve destroyed your (your friend’s gun) to make the test being concerned about the safety. I appreciate such a behavior and thus would be happy if you let me send you the new tubes for L2 in order to recover the gun to it’s working way and use it again. In spite of the fact that our countries are not friendly at the moment I will find a way to send them to you or some other spare parts in case you need for L2.
And to show you my compltet opnenning mind and that I have nothing behind I give the link to all the rest of the videos we made (I will open them at youtube one after one during few days, but you can see them all here).
.