I've always been told to order suppressors one caliber size up to prevent pellet clipping. Well after going back and forth with DonnyFL because I didn't believe what they were telling me at first, they told me this is true only for shrouded barrels. The rifle I have (Benjamin Cayden) does not have a shroud and the suppressor screws directly onto the barrel. They informed there is no need to go a caliber size up for a non-shrouded barrel. The gun will be tested by Airguns of AZ before shipping so we'll see what happens.
Learn something new about suppressors...
- Thread starter kkirsch
- Start date
I can possibly see that as an error margin thing for poor shroud designs (or moderators made from weak materials), but that is an awful rumor that is out there (that all airguns should go one caliber larger). I had a conversation with Neil Clague a little while back, and he just couldn't fathom why anyone would do that. You lose so much effectiveness doing so!
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DonnyFL is standing by their product, telling me it will be perfectly centered to the barrel. Donny has a good reputation so I'm trusting they know what they're talking about.
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I don't believe that there is much different in sound suppression due to over size. I would like to see hard data from sound meter readings from a good test methodology. Prove to me how much louder a .30 suppressor will be than a .22 will be. Same model, same gun, different caliber moderator. Data please.
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I was told by DONNY FL himself to go one size up in cal. (after my third mistake) . When I first started this money pit I bought a gen. 2 - 22 marauder with the same size suppressor attached to the shrould well I paid the price it clipped .At that time I had bought it from cmatera on the forum , a sumo . I talked to donny about it & he sent me another for free , so I gave the one back to Carl & ended up drilling out the new one donny sent me , (same size) because it clipped also . My tatsu on my puncher breaker also clipped that was attached to the shrould you would of have think that I would have learned from the second mistake LOL . Thought it was a fluke but not , moral to the story Do what the manuf. suggest . BTW Carl had the same problem with a different gun clipping also with a shrould . If I choose a different style I will talk to the manuf. & see what they suggest , another thought maybe some of these suppressor have different size holes in them than Donny fl's so you can get away with it .
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Had a Koi in .22 on my Commander; it was clipping and I wasn't sure if it wasn't me who was at fault. It came as a package deal from Utah Airguns back when they sold Brocock. Donny sent me a new Koi in .25 for FREE and let me keep the .22 Koi which was clipping.
To my ears (isn't that why we suppress? For human/pest ears not microphones?) it sounded the exact same. I could not tell a difference and I no longer had clipping issues.
From a customer service aspect DonnyFL is exceptional. He's also a member here.
To my ears (isn't that why we suppress? For human/pest ears not microphones?) it sounded the exact same. I could not tell a difference and I no longer had clipping issues.
From a customer service aspect DonnyFL is exceptional. He's also a member here.
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So true! When the threads are cut concentric to the bore all is good! Going up a size is for poor quality control. I wish our airguns were all up to the standards of custom firearms—our barrel threads are cut for no run-out, and suppressors and barrels are threaded as perfectly concentric to bore as possible.
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On the Avenger I'm currently playing with, the DonnyFL adapter has a tube extending out the back of his 1/2 X 20 adapter that slides over the barrel inside the shroud. While the DonnyFL adapter still screws into the shroud, the barrel is automatically centered and aligned with the bore of the SUMO. It's a smart move for a $300 gun whose quality control may not be perfect in a cost cutting world.
However, I've owned several of Donny's moderators and never had a clipping issue. It's obvious the problem lies elsewhere, perhaps with free floating barrels inside of screw-on shrouds, and possibly with the varying size of some brands of pellets.
I don't believe a few thousandths of an inch in the exit hole should make any noticeable difference to human ears, so I see no problem with using a one caliber oversized bore. At least that's been true with Donny's moderators, not so with some less expensive moderators I've tried over the years...well, you get what you pay for!
Kindly 'Ol Uncle Hoot
Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary...dependent on shooting habits, wife's disposition, constipation/ hemorrhoid issues, and/or possession of a generally irritable and bitchy mood!
However, I've owned several of Donny's moderators and never had a clipping issue. It's obvious the problem lies elsewhere, perhaps with free floating barrels inside of screw-on shrouds, and possibly with the varying size of some brands of pellets.
I don't believe a few thousandths of an inch in the exit hole should make any noticeable difference to human ears, so I see no problem with using a one caliber oversized bore. At least that's been true with Donny's moderators, not so with some less expensive moderators I've tried over the years...well, you get what you pay for!
Kindly 'Ol Uncle Hoot
Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary...dependent on shooting habits, wife's disposition, constipation/ hemorrhoid issues, and/or possession of a generally irritable and bitchy mood!
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You stated yours was attached to the shroud. Mine does not have a shroud. DonnyFL said to stay with the same caliber only on non-shrouded barrels. If there is any clipping Airguns of AZ should catch it prior to shipping, and DonnyFL will take care of it.
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It all comes down to ALIGNMENT ..... ANY place in the stacking of shrouds, air strippers, threaded LDC adapters and even the LDC them self can be places where a degree or fraction of a degree of TILTING or CONCENTRICITY changes relative to the barrel bore deviate from parallel & true.
Thus why the Caliber higher sizing is suggested for most guns and applications. THIS IS A CRUTCH FIX to a cumulative poor tolerance & machining of the parts and pieces before entering ANY LDC devise. Tho if the LDC threading and the face edge it tightens against is not square and true it still will likely clip pellets if at caliber spec sizing.
Scott S
Thus why the Caliber higher sizing is suggested for most guns and applications. THIS IS A CRUTCH FIX to a cumulative poor tolerance & machining of the parts and pieces before entering ANY LDC devise. Tho if the LDC threading and the face edge it tightens against is not square and true it still will likely clip pellets if at caliber spec sizing.
Scott S
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Make sure ALL the threads are cut perfect and face squared and everything's concentric including barrel bore and shroud alignment.then no need to go up in size.
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...and yet there is no detectable penalty for going up in size. Don't worry about the small stuff, IMHO.
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Then why would manufacturers make different caliber sized suppressors? Wouldn't they just make a single universal size if that were true? I'm betting there is a difference, but it may only be a 6-8 db difference.
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Prove it to me. My own experience shows this topic to be much ado about nothing detectable.
I don't speak for the manufacturer, but the market usually sets the demand.
I don't speak for the manufacturer, but the market usually sets the demand.
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That was a sincere question. Instead of saying, "prove it to me" why don't you address the question.
Again, why would manufacturers make different caliber sized suppressors instead of a single universal size if it didn't matter?
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This is a sincere response. I am not the manufacturer and any response I give you is simply my supposition...however, according to Economics 101 the Market will set the Demand. If people did not obsess over matching what they think is a .22 caliber bore (is it really a .216 or .217 or is it .218??) and a "22 caliber" moderator, then the manufacturer would not need to put a disclaimer on their page to tell people to upsize their order. People would order a "22 cal" moderator and then measure it to find it is closer to ".25 caliber" and all hell would break loose and there would be no end to the bickering. For across the board compatibility, I suspect the Donny recommends increasing the moderator size - and there is almost no difference in sound output. Win-Win for everyone who is not O.C.D. obsessed with "matching" parts from various sources and machine shops.
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I have a DFL Tanto .22 on my .22 and I have not had any clipping. It is attached to the barrel.
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As a professional tuner, one who has manufactured LDC's and shroud combo moderators for many years .... IT DOES make a difference, not huge, but notable if your able to side by side compare.
It is of my opinion that this is due to mostly a single effect ... that being the clear UNOBSTRUCTED hole where an emanating sound wave which is an ARCH or dome in shape gets clipped by the baffles, yet the center of this sound wave is able to travel undisturbed till it exits said LDC. Smaller the hole, more of this sound waves energy gets peeled away to tumble within baffles and loose energy. Bigger the hole greater is the area this energy of the sound wave able to exit never contacting baffles.
Simple acoustics that in my mind makes perfect sense ... So thrown back out there ... Can you Prove or Argue it wrong ?
Scott S
It is of my opinion that this is due to mostly a single effect ... that being the clear UNOBSTRUCTED hole where an emanating sound wave which is an ARCH or dome in shape gets clipped by the baffles, yet the center of this sound wave is able to travel undisturbed till it exits said LDC. Smaller the hole, more of this sound waves energy gets peeled away to tumble within baffles and loose energy. Bigger the hole greater is the area this energy of the sound wave able to exit never contacting baffles.
Simple acoustics that in my mind makes perfect sense ... So thrown back out there ... Can you Prove or Argue it wrong ?
Scott S
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Let's keep in mind we are talking about non-shrouded barrels. DonnyFL does say to go up one caliber for 'shrouded barrels only.' Even vendors I spoke with were not aware of this.
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Thanks for the example. Makes me feel a little better about my decision to tell Airguns of AZ to go with the .22 KOI for the non-shrouded barrel of the .22 Cayden.
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