Lead and its impact on raptors

[Dougth]

I know this topic has been discussed here before. It would be great for companies to step up and provide better non-lead ammunition. Squirrels shot with lead are poisoning reintroduced condors still in southern CA even after the lead ban. Rodents shot with lead ammo should either be disposed of or we should be using non lead ammo. This shouldnt be a contentious issue. I agree with others that we need to be proactive on this issue

I wrote this srticle about 5 years ago. The revelation tor me was how much lead scatters around a carcass when elk or deer shot with powder burner. I wonder if anyone knows whether shedding of lead into the carcass similarly takes place at the lower velocities of airgun lead. https://horsesidevetguide.com/Save+Golden+Eagles+with+Lead+Free+Bullets

 

[L.Leon]

Most of those lead projectiles pass right through those said squirrels… Ah, yes California, shouldn’t be contentious? Who are these others? All I hear is… should, should, should, then must. If you feel that strongly about it, simply stop shooting the squirrels.

 

[JimNM]

This thread reads like a enviro-activist troll. The OP starts of with a statement, then refers to his own work as support, then asks if there is a correlation to airguns.

The tone and organization of the statements does not appear to be from a genuine member of the airgun community. I urge caution in responding to troll efforts from the "Anti" groups.

 

[Chuck-in-Ohio]

He has made several posts about shooting his Crown, and asking questions about the same.
Let us first understand his motivation.

Keep them torches handy, just in case!

 

[Septicdeath]

Troll post.
The lead passes through the squirrels, rabbits etc.
Take them home and eat them!

 

[madeintheuk]

I shoot low power in my back yard, and seldom get pass through, so I can see where he’s coming from. My wife also works at a nature preserve that has hawks, and owls that have been injured and cannot re enter the eco system. I offered to give up the squirrels and chipmunks I shoot as free food for these raptors. I tuned my guns up for pass through, and their lab tested the rodents for lead trace. There was still enough lead inside the carcass even with a pass through to be considered poisonous to the birds.
whatever his motivations are, he still makes a good point.

 

[L.Leon]

I shoot low power in my back yard, and seldom get pass through, so I can see where he’s coming from. My wife also works at a nature preserve that has hawks, and owls that have been injured and cannot re enter the eco system. I offered to give up the squirrels and chipmunks I shoot as free food for these raptors. I tuned my guns up for pass through, and their lab tested the rodents for lead trace. There was still enough lead inside the carcass even with a pass through to be considered poisonous to the birds.
whatever his motivations are, he still makes a good point.

So the minute traces of lead from a pass through are enough to “poison” these birds? Maybe if you fed them shot birds consistently. One winter I shot a few dozen starlings and watch and filmed a hawk coming for the kills. The hawk, day by day, just kept getting bigger and bigger. Lead does occur in nature. We understand that in high concentrations it is harmful. I bet some of these animals are more resistant to unintentional “lead poisoning” than we might think.

 

[madeintheuk]

So the minute traces of lead from a pass through are enough to “poison” these birds? Maybe if you fed them shot birds consistently. One winter I shot a few dozen starlings and watch and filmed a hawk coming for the kills. The hawk, day by day, just kept getting bigger and bigger. Lead does occur in nature. We understand that in high concentrations it is harmful. I bet some of these animals are more resistant to unintentional “lead poisoning” than we might think.

It would take many over time of course. In no way am I saying just a few squirrels would poison a raptor, but in a nature preserve, they’re a lot more sensitive to these things, and if over time it could cause harm to the birds they are providing sanctuary to, they won’t do it.

 

[boscoebrea]

I am so sick of ignorance it pisses me Off!For those unaware,Ducks Unlimited helped to save millions of Ducks and other animals by getting the lead ban for shotgun shells,,,,,oh yea plenty argued about it... unawareness has a way of doing that...yes the shotguns and shell shots had to be reconfigured, but it worked to save the duck populations....
This has been discussed before,,,not to worry lead also leads to childbirth defects...Why argue a proven point?
Ignorance is bliss unless it causes problems to those that possess it.
The Caveman is part of our heritage so please forgive me for my outburst .
Oh yea ,the Ducks were eating grain and also ingested lead shot pellets=thus the duck eggs and babies were not fully developed.
I hope you can realize I come from a big family that loves Ducks!!!Don't fook with Ducks!
So if you can digest what I said or want to look it up you too can become educated on lead poisoning.

 

[L.Leon]

I am so sick of ignorance it pisses me Off!For those unaware,Ducks Unlimited helped to save millions of Ducks and other animals by getting the lead ban for shotgun shells,,,,,oh yea plenty argued about it... unawareness has a way of doing that...yes the shotguns and shell shots had to be reconfigured, but it worked to save the duck populations....
This has been discussed before,,,not to worry lead also leads to childbirth defects...Why argue a proven point?
Ignorance is bliss unless it causes problems to those that possess it.
The Caveman is part of our heritage so please forgive me for my outburst .
Oh yea ,the Ducks were eating grain and also ingested lead shot pellets=thus the duck eggs and babies were not fully developed.
I hope you can realize I come from a big family that loves Ducks!!!Don't fook with Ducks!
So if you can digest what I said or want to look it up you too can become educated on lead poisoning.

That ban was legit as sending hundreds even thousands of lead pellets into the air, ducks and habitat per hunter, per hunt was catastrophic to the ducks. So who is this ignorance that “pisses you off” comment directed at? I’ve never hunted or intended to hunt ducks, but respect all animal habitats and act accordingly. The OP was about squirrels and the Cali Condors…

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

He has made several posts about shooting his Crown, and asking questions about the same.
Let us first understand his motivation.

Keep them torches handy, just in case!

I'll grab the pitch forks!

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I've been feeding my dumerils boa squirrels and rabbits I've shot with lead pellets for a decade and he's got nothing but bigger and bigger. All pass thru shots. I know birds/raptors aren't exactly reptiles, but birds are basically modern dinosaurs so there is that.

He has never exhibited any signs of lead poisoning. If the pellet doesn't shatter on impact and leave chunks inside the prey, I don't see how it would be enough to harm an animal. I know birds are more sensitive to lead than most other animals. Thats because they actually pick up the lead pellets/shot and store them in their crops/gizzard like they do rocks to help grind up their food. So it just sits in there and leeches into their blood until they either regurgitate it or digest it.

 

[madeintheuk]

I would hope we live in a world where hunting/pesting, and wildlife conservation go hand in hand. While my wife’s nature preserve denied the use of the food I offered, they continue to allow me to hunt/pest on the preserve to allow balance to the eco system. I’m a firm believer in the fact that humans have caused a lot of these populations to run out of control, and we as humans should be doing our part to bring balance back. This includes ethical hunting of species to bring their numbers back into balance. It also includes being mindful of our actions towards those species that can be harmed by what we do.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

I would hope we live in a world where hunting/pesting, and wildlife conservation go hand in hand. While my wife’s nature preserve denied the use of the food I offered, they continue to allow me to hunt/pest on the preserve to allow balance to the eco system. I’m a firm believer in the fact that humans have caused a lot of these populations to run out of control, and we as humans should be doing our part to bring balance back. This includes ethical hunting of species to bring their numbers back into balance. It also includes being mindful of our actions towards those species that can be harmed by what we do.

So they let you hunt on their preserve? Do you use lead pellets while hunting? If so, you can't always guarantee a no pass thru shot, nor the possibility of dropping pellets while loading. Not being an ass, just logic says that's odd they allow that.

 

[boscoebrea]

It was not directed at anyone,it was a shotgun blast toward the sky hoping to hit a rainbow of humanity.
I do not feel I got off the subject,to me the subject is lead.
For sure my mind becomes scattered and I know it bugs some people.
I certainly have respect for 99% of posters,I do not mind you calling me out because I have the utmost respect for you.

 

[madeintheuk]

I've been feeding my dumerils boa squirrels and rabbits I've shot with lead pellets for a decade and he's got nothing but bigger and bigger. All pass thru shots. I know birds/raptors aren't exactly reptiles, but birds are basically modern dinosaurs so there is that.

He has never exhibited any signs of lead poisoning. If the pellet doesn't shatter on impact and leave chunks inside the prey, I don't see how it would be enough to harm an animal. I know birds are more sensitive to lead than most other animals. Thats because they actually pick up the lead pellets/shot and store them in their crops/gizzard like they do rocks to help grind up their food. So it just sits in there and leeches into their blood until they either regurgitate it or digest it.

It may not show signs in the Amina itself. A lot of lead poisoning shows up as inability to reproduce. Many bird species with lead poisoning would lay eggs that wouldn’t sustain life. the membranes would separate from the shell and cause the embryos to die, or the shells themselves would be so thin. That when the birds would brood, the weight of them would break the eggs underneath.

 

[madeintheuk]

So they let you hunt on their preserve? Do you use lead pellets while hunting? If so, you can't always guarantee a no pass thru shot, nor the possibility of dropping pellets while loading. Not being an ass, just logic says that's odd they allow that.

Yes, and you are correct in your statements, but I’m one guy, and I shoot a 22 air rifle. The amount of lead I’ll introduce into a 1000 acre nature preserve is of no measurable magnitude. Feeding birds my quarry is a different story.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

It may not show signs in the Amina itself. A lot of lead poisoning shows up as inability to reproduce. Many bird species with lead poisoning would lay eggs that wouldn’t sustain life. the membranes would separate from the shell and cause the embryos to die, or the shells themselves would be so thin. That when the birds would brood, the weight of them would break the eggs underneath.

Gotcha. I've never done any blood tests on him and don't have plans to try and breed him. He's close to 15 years old now.

 

[madeintheuk]

Gotcha. I've never done any blood tests on him and don't have plans to try and breed him. He's close to 15 years old now.

And i have no experience with the effects on reptiles either, so he could be perfectly fine. Lol

 

[Septicdeath]

I am so sick of ignorance it pisses me Off!For those unaware,Ducks Unlimited helped to save millions of Ducks and other animals by getting the lead ban for shotgun shells,,,,,oh yea plenty argued about it... unawareness has a way of doing that...yes the shotguns and shell shots had to be reconfigured, but it worked to save the duck populations....
This has been discussed before,,,not to worry lead also leads to childbirth defects...Why argue a proven point?
Ignorance is bliss unless it causes problems to those that possess it.
The Caveman is part of our heritage so please forgive me for my outburst .
Oh yea ,the Ducks were eating grain and also ingested lead shot pellets=thus the duck eggs and babies were not fully developed.
I hope you can realize I come from a big family that loves Ducks!!!Don't fook with Ducks!
So if you can digest what I said or want to look it up you too can become educated on lead poisoning.

I duck, pheasant and upland bird hunt. The lead shot ban was a good thing. The birds were ingesting large amounts of lead.

Not near as many airgun enthusiasts ever hunt with there guns. Not nearly the problem of shotgun hunting.

Let's ban plastic bottles instead. They are much more of a problem to the environment.