LCS SK-19 barrel cleaning - easy.

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No way to get one in. Access is blocked. I said in my original post it would be great if the manufacturer put a slot in the right place so you could do that and get it exact every time. I also said it would be great if the threaded shroud/baffle nut was a hex so you could use a torque wrench to set it properly if a spec was provided. Someone replied that the threaded part does not do anything, it just holds the shroud on. I'm pretty sure they are wrong. In the AoA review by Jared, he said the barrel is tensioned and something to the effect to leave it alone. Of course that is not possible if you follow their later instructions in today's video on cleaning or changing the barrel. From my original post:




Let me tell you the story of my LCS SK-19. It arrived last Friday 1-10-20 at about 6 PM. It was already dark. On Saturday 1-11-20, I scoped the gun and went to sight it in. First magazine of 19 rounds I had 2 failure to fires, air yes pellet no. Second magazine of 19 rounds, three rounds air yes, pellet no. 3rd mag only shot 5, two more air but no pellet. I did not clean this gun or touch it in any way-just pellets (JSB 33.95gr) and air. That's why I never touch a new gun, then vendors say you caused the problem.

Monday1-13, I call the vendor (who has been excellent). They tell me the barrel may be screwed in too far and not allowing the fixed non-removeable magazine to rotate, and to try unscrewing the barrel. Fired 2 mags of 19, thought problem was solved (even called vendor and waited 20 minutes on hold to tell them). Wednesday 1-15-20. Two skunks in my yard (the reason I bought the gun). Shot the first, went to shoot the second no pellet. I lifted the mag levers on both sides of the gun, rotated the mag clockwise one position by hand, re-closed the levers and shot and killed the second, as it was still there. When I checked the mag, there were two pellets missing, even though I fired 3 times.

I called the vendor today 1-16-20 and am sending the gun back. In getting it ready to ship I wanted to unload the magazine. Since it's fixed and non-removable how can I? Simple shoot it. Prior to this time I had been shooting the gun off a gun rest, and with the long ATN 4K Pro scope I was behind the gun. While emptying the pellets by shooting into the ground (scope was taken off), I felt air puffing on my right cheek. I called the vendor to add this info to the RMA. They said the barrel was probably unscrewed too far, causing the air to blow out the side.

Here's what I would like my fellow air gunners to know. First, the only way to clean this gun due to the fixed magazine is to remove the barrel. Second, the barrel is tensioned in the front by the moderator baffle nut. Third, once you remove the barrel to clean it, It will be very difficult if not impossible, to get the barrel in the proper position. Too far back, magazine will not work. Too far forward, air comes out the side. There are NO specs on the baffle nut to know how to properly tension the barrel. I told the vendor I put a piece of painters tape at 12 o'clock on the barrel before I loosened it. He said "if you make a pen mark on the tape at 12 o'clock, turning the barrel more than the width of the pen mark, it could be too much". You will have these issues EVERY TIME you remove the barrel for cleaning. Not a very good design, not very good QC. There should have been a slot in the side to insert a feelers gauge to get the spacing correct and there should have been a spec on the barrel tension, and a way (hint-a hex for a torque wrench) to apply it. 

I should have bought an Impact MKII.

Anyone who says I trashed a manufacturer or attacked others for not reporting the problem either cannot read or is lying.

Watch the video and listen to what Jared says at 6:15:











https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=L5cwhTszrFs&feature=emb_logo











Click to expand...

I've taken my barrel out and put it back together and the gun works just as it did before I took the barrel out. So it's not even close to being impossible or even hard for that matter to do it. And the moderator is applying little if any tension to the barrel. The moderator is simply holding the shroud in place between the it and the gun's frame. The video you provided proves my point. If the moderator screwing down was applying tension to the barrel then the shroud wouldn't be able to rotate with the moderator screwed down tight. On my gun the shroud is fairly tight when the moderator is tightened down, but it will still rotate.
 
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With the information put out as a result of my post, I don't think it's impossible or hard. I repeat-my gun did not work from new. Received it Fri at 5 PM and was on the phone Monday morning when they opened. The video did not exist until today. I do not buy airguns to tinker with them. A $2,000 airgun should be delivered in working order. Now that all this information is out, your're pretty smart.
 
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As I wrote as the OP, removing and installing the barrel is simple. Some guns are hard to do this (think FX Bobcat), others are medium difficulty (think Cricket or Vulcan) and others are easy ((FX Streamline or Crown). The LCS-19 is truly in the Easy category. 
I’ll agree that the barrel is lightly tensioned, but solely due to the fact that this is what keeps the shroud tight to the moderator. Key word LIGHTLY, and not enough to make any difference whatsoever in that thick bull barrel. The barrel on the LCS makes other airgun barrels look like toys. It’s that robust! You could probably hang a five pound moderator off the end and not affect POI... ;)
 
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With the information put out as a result of my post, I don't think it's impossible or hard. I repeat-my gun did not work from new. Received it Fri at 5 PM and was on the phone Monday morning when they opened. The video did not exist until today. I do not buy airguns to tinker with them. A $2,000 airgun should be delivered in working order. Now that all this information is out, your're pretty smart.

First off Bud, take it easy. Second I totally agree with the underlined parts of your above post. Third for some weird reason you got it in your head that the moderator is applying tension to the barrel and for some strange reason you seem to think because of this it is impossible to get the barrel properly adjusted correctly. Do I have that right? Because this is what you said;

Here's what I would like my fellow air gunners to know. First, the only way to clean this gun due to the fixed magazine is to remove the barrel. Second, the barrel is tensioned in the front by the moderator baffle nut. Third, once you remove the barrel to clean it, It will be very difficult if not impossible, to get the barrel in the proper position. Too far back, magazine will not work. Too far forward, air comes out the side. There are NO specs on the baffle nut to know how to properly tension the barrel. 

First, there are other ways to clean the barrel of this gun without removing the barrel. By using cleaning pellets.

Second, the barrel has little or no tension being applied to it by the moderator, (look at the AOA video). And even if the moderator was applying tension to the barrel, what does that have to do with the barrel being adjusted so the gun will work correctly? The barrel is held locked in the frame of the gun by the two screws in the frame. Do you think the barrel is held in place by the moderator somehow?

Third, it's obvious that once someone removes the barrel from this gun, that it can be installed again and the gun will work just fine. I've done it no problem and apparently others on this forum have done it as well.
Click to expand...


 
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When the appropriate information is made available, it is not impossible or hard. Where did I get in my head that the the barrel was tensioned? Watch the video at the 6:15 mark-thats where. If you don’t get it, what can I say? One cannot disassemble (nor should it be necessary to with a new gun) back to where one started, when the starting point is a non-functioning gun.

I’m fully aware of cleaning pellets. I’m 64 years old and bought my first airgun in 1997. In talking to Daren at AoA, I told him that cleaning the barrel might require a different approach due to the fixed magazine. I mentioned cleaning pellets. He said he did not recommend it and barrel removal is the proper way.

You’re in AZ. You should get a job at AoA. Apparently you know more than all of them. I wasn’t trying to learn how to remove the barrel on a new gun. I did not want to need to learn it until after owning the gun a while at some point in the future. Pretty hard to figure out how to remove the barrel on a gun one had not laid hand on until 2 days before. You think I might have been mounting a scope and sighting in or shooting/learning the gun? AoA is who told me to loosen the barrel. They did not offer to send me a link to the video to explain how to do it because the video doid not exist until today. When they told me to loosen the barrel, they did not telll me even the width of a pen mark could be too much until AFTER the gun was packaged for return.

I watched the AoA video review before I bought the gun and downloaded the user manual to learn what I could in the month I waited for the gun. Please post where in the manual it explains how to clean or remove/install the barrel. I don’ care if the barrel is tensioned or not. You can discuss it with AoA. I just want the functioning gun I paid for, and was advising prospective buyers to think about a few of these points before making a purchase. Simply saying you had the gun before others and had no problem figuring out the heretofore undocumented procedure and the information given to me by AoA is wrong is of zero benefit to me or anyone else If you can show me the procedure in the manual or in a video made prior to 1-10-20 when I received my gun, please do so.
 
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cmatera said;

When the appropriate information is made available, it is not impossible or hard. Where did I get in my head that the the barrel was tensioned? Watch the video at the 6:15 mark-thats where. If you don’t get it, what can I say? One cannot disassemble (nor should it be necessary to with a new gun) back to where one started, when the starting point is a non-functioning gun.

I get it my friend but apparently you don't. Watch the video again, then watch as the shroud spins when the guy touches it. It is as obvious as it can be that there is no tension on the barrel. Follow along here, the moderator screws into the end of the barrel, the rear part of the moderator rests on the front of the shroud, the rear end of the shroud rests on the gun's frame. If the shroud can spin when the moderator is screwed down then there can't be any tension on the barrel. Still with me here?

cmatera said,

If you can show me the procedure in the manual or in a video made prior to 1-10-20 when I received my gun, please do so.

I did what many here do, read other member's posts regarding the SK-19. Read this post from back in December ( https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/sk-19-was-not-shooting-to-well-today-needed-cleaned/ ). That's where I learned how to remove the barrel and that you have to be careful how far the barrel's breech end is from the magazine. If the barrel touches the magazine the magazine isn't going to rotate properly. 

But the problem isn't that you didn't know how to properly adjust the barrel, but that you made statements that were incorrect in regards to the gun's barrel removal and proper installation. If you don't know how something works, don't assume you can guess your way into some kind of warning to the rest of us.

Just saying!
 
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1579326972_8984597075e229dfc5b3fa5.24590208_5FBB40EE-8588-4851-8642-274FB3E7C3AF.jpeg


I don’t own the gun, and maybe I’m not seeing it, but if it were me I’d be popping one of these on before unthreading the barrel, so when I re thread I’d have a definitive stop against the block so as to land perfectly as it had been set from the factory.
 
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I thought about that too (adjustable shaft collar). Not sure if it will work (may not be enough room behind the shroud) and may interfere with the moderator baffle nut. The more you add at the back will subtract from the front and may push the front baffle nut too far out to thread. Others with more knowledge may be able to clarify. After rethinking what you said, it WOULD work. All you have to do is put the collar on against the action, unscrew the barrel, screw the barrel in to the stop collar and remove it before reinstalling the shroud. Thank you making me revisit that idea. In my case however, it would not have helped. If I put the collar stop on the barrel on a gun that is not functioning properly and put it back the same way, I will still have a gun that is not functioning. Once I get a working gun, it would work. Couple other ideas I had in my original post were putting a wrap of painters tape around the barrel where it meets the receiver along with a pen mark at 12 o'clock and screwing the barrel in to where the tape meets the receiver and the mark is on top. Lastly, you could scribe a light line on the OD of the barrel and another at 12 o'clock (like a T) and then using a touch of Dykem to make a more visible mark. Not real comfortable with making even a light scribe in the finish of the barrel. Once again, the one hitch is having a functional gun to be able to mark before disassembly. The video AoA made today in response to the issue with my gun make the process of getting the barrel in far enough not to puff air out the left side but not so tight as to impede magazine advancement more understandable. If that video had been available 2 days earlier, I might have been able to fix it myself

Two more things prospective buyers should be aware of. In preparing the gun for return, I had 17 rounds in the magazine. The magazine is fixed. How do you empty it? To me, the easiest way to unload it was to shoot the rounds into the ground, but what if the gun was not functional to do so? Can you push the pellets out of the magazine to unload? Back to front or front to back? No diss on the manufacturer, just the nature of the beast. Lastly, they claim the regulator is adjustable, but advise against doing it and recommend sending it in to a service center. How many of you consider a gun that has be sent in to a service center to have an "adjustable regulator"? Has anyone tried to adjust the regulator? Is it really so difficult so as to require it in to a service center? I'll ask AoA to make another video.
 
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No, you lost me. I clearly heard what Jared SAID. I don't care if the barrel is tensioned or not. Are you with me? If you want to analyze the video portion vs the audio portion, call AoA and argue with them.

Secondly, I did not make any incorrect statements about how to properly remove or install the barrel. I merely related what AoA told me to try and do to fix the problem before sending the gun back to them. I did not try to guess my way into anything. I followed the steps the dealer told me to follow in trying to find a quick/easy solution. Sounds like you have more of a problem with the dealer than I do, as you seem to second guess everything they told me. I'm not trying to warn anyone into anything, certainly not you. Don't get smart, stay like you are.
 
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As I wrote as the OP, removing and installing the barrel is simple. Some guns are hard to do this (think FX Bobcat), others are medium difficulty (think Cricket or Vulcan) and others are easy ((FX Streamline or Crown). The LCS-19 is truly in the Easy category. 
I’ll agree that the barrel is lightly tensioned, but solely due to the fact that this is what keeps the shroud tight to the moderator. Key word LIGHTLY, and not enough to make any difference whatsoever in that thick bull barrel. The barrel on the LCS makes other airgun barrels look like toys. It’s that robust! You could probably hang a five pound moderator off the end and not affect POI... ;)
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"You could probably hang a five pound moderator off the end and not affect POI" that cracked me up! Is it that much heavier than the original S/T barrel?
 
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Bigragu has fiound the easy, repeatable solution, if I can get a split shaft collar from McMaster Carr roughly the diameter of the OD of the barrel right in front of the receiver assuming your gun is operating properly. Here’s how it works:

Remove the shroud. Wipe the OD of the exposed part of the barrel (and the rest later) to get the lead dust off. Place the split shaft collar around the OD of the barrel against the action. You may want to put a wrap of painters tape around the barrel under where the shaft collar will go so as not to mar your barrel. Loosen the barrel band screws, unscrew the barrel, and clean it. When clean, screw the barrel in until the split shaft collar is against the action and re retighten the the two barrel band screws. Remove the split shaft collar and/or tape, and reinstall the shroud/moderator. No need to screw in until the mag won’t turn, unscrew hopefully not too far to puff air, or do any dry firing. I cannot mic the barrel to find a split shaft collar, as my gun is on the way back to the dealer, and will not be back until the end of the month due to shipping and Daren telling me his SK-19 gunsmith is only there on Monday,Tuesday, and Wednesday.
 
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The LCS SK19 Barrel remove and install by Don should clear up any issues for cleaning. We appreciate the feedback from our customers. Each rifle is filled tested for accuracy, function, leaks, and performance before it leaves the company. Of course Mr Murphy and his law always applies. Videos take at least a month for film scheduling and editing and posting. We will do our best for all of our brands to speed up these very important tutorials. 

Rob 
 
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I started out with about 225 bar and a full mag:

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In an attempt to follow the vendors instructions to help fix the problem, I marked the top dead center with painters masking tape, but shortly after realized I was only turning the shroud so got it removed and loosened the barrel:

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Here is a pic of the mag after shooting a few:

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Pretty obvious which round did not shoot.

When it did work it was accurate though! Here are 19 shots in each target at my 25 yard range:

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I look forward to getting it back.
 
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Bigragu has fiound the easy, repeatable solution, if I can get a split shaft collar from McMaster Carr roughly the diameter of the OD of the barrel right in front of the receiver assuming your gun is operating properly. Here’s how it works:

Remove the shroud. Wipe the OD of the exposed part of the barrel (and the rest later) to get the lead dust off. Place the split shaft collar around the OD of the barrel against the action. You may want to put a wrap of painters tape around the barrel under where the shaft collar will go so as not to mar your barrel. Loosen the barrel band screws, unscrew the barrel, and clean it. When clean, screw the barrel in until the split shaft collar is against the action and re retighten the the two barrel band screws. Remove the split shaft collar and/or tape, and reinstall the shroud/moderator. No need to screw in until the mag won’t turn, unscrew hopefully not too far to puff air, or do any dry firing. I cannot mic the barrel to find a split shaft collar, as my gun is on the way back to the dealer, and will not be back until the end of the month due to shipping and Daren telling me his SK-19 gunsmith is only there on Monday,Tuesday, and Wednesday.
Click to expand...

CMatera, depending on the diameter of the barrel, the shaft lock collars that use the grub screw to tighten up to the barrel can be had from ACE hardware. It doesn’t need to be cinched down tight, and yes, when I posted my original reply with the pic, it was intended to remove the shroud first, slip on the shaft lock, butt it up to the block, and lock down. I think the one pictured, if you can source the correct ID, would be better as no grub screw would push onto the barrel. 

In a pinch, the grub screw can be replaced with plastic tipped grub screws, should you go with that type of shaft lock collar.
 
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No, I would get the one you showed, it’s called a double split shaft collar. I can’t get one yet because my gun is on the way back to AoA. I need to mic the barrel right in front of the receiver..

I found these. If you look at the Where to Buy tab at the top, looks like lot’s of places:

https://www.concentricintl.com/product/double-split-shaft-collars/
 
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