Hey y’all so I’ve narrowed down the next airgun I’m going to get to either the kral empire xs or the Artemis p35. I know they both can come with their own set of drawbacks, but at their price points I think they both have a lot to offer. In my opinion the empire xs is one of the coolest looking airguns I’ve seen and think I’m leaning towards it. The only other option I have on the table rn is the new avenge x bullpup but will have to see it in action to know how I feel about it. Any feedback on this would be appreciated.
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Kral empire xs vs. Artemis snowpeak p35?
- Thread starter Jcrumb2002
- Start date
Kral Empire XS has a great looking wood stock.
That seems to be its main feature.
I have 2 Kral NP03 which are almost the same as the Empire XS but with synthetic stocks.
They are great air guns but they cannot compete with a regulated airgun in terms of shot count or accuracy over long shot strings.
That seems to be its main feature.
I have 2 Kral NP03 which are almost the same as the Empire XS but with synthetic stocks.
They are great air guns but they cannot compete with a regulated airgun in terms of shot count or accuracy over long shot strings.
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The NP03 is not almost the same as an XS. I have both.
I vote for the XS. Great shooting, built like a tank. So much fun you'll sh#% your pants.
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What do you want out of a gun and what are your machinists skills. The Kral will do just fine if you are not a power monger. If you are and have some skills, the gun has a good bit left untapped under the hood. The Snowflake right out of the box is going to have more power as long as it’s not a .25. But you could wind up needing to recrown the barrel, clean up the lead or possibly replace the barrel. And you better hope you get a reg that doesn’t require 1,000 shots to break in. I won’t talk you into either and I can’t talk you out of either. I really like my XS but I put some serious work into it because I wanted 18gr pellets to shoot above 850fps. I completely trust the gun even after the mods. I will never trust a SPA.
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I don't know anything about the P35, but the Empire XS is one of my favorite guns.
While not a world beater, BRK, FX or RTI, or...it's just a great little gun to shoot. Owned about 10 months or so, nary a problem.
Mike
While not a world beater, BRK, FX or RTI, or...it's just a great little gun to shoot. Owned about 10 months or so, nary a problem.
Mike
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All I know about the Kral is what I saw in a few reviews and comments on GTA. According to the Krale website, the barrel of the Kral is a little bit shorter but I think it was 430mm versus 450mm for the P35. I really like the Kral stock and I think the safety location ahead of the trigger is better than the P35 push bar behind the trigger. But the Kral is almost 1.5 lbs heavier than the P35 and the P35 is regulated while the Kral is not. The Kral stores 200 cc of air at 200 bar and the P35 stores 265cc at 250 bar. The combination of the regulator and the larger air capacity means the P35 will give you a lot more shots. My P35-22 came set to about 32 fpe and at that power level I get at least 60 shots on a fill. I think that is more than twice what you would get from the Kral at that power level.
Some people seem to like to bash SPA made guns. I have three P35s and none has given me trouble. I've replaced a few O-rings in the oldest one I've had over a year now but that was mostly my fault. The least accurate will put 3 into a 1/4 inch group at 25 yards (the oldest, the 25 caliber). The 177 did a 184 on the 30 yard challenge and the 22 was in the mid 190s. For me as the shooter and for a short and light gun at the bench I think this is pretty good. The regulator on the 177 has not been working so great but I'm hoping clipping a little off the hammer spring will help it. I haven't tested it since. The regulator on the 22 and 25 gives me a ES of around 16 and a std dev under 5. You will not get that consistency in an unregulated guns and may not even if you spend more than a P35 costs on a regulated gun.
If you care more about looks than weight and if you can tolerate the more frequent refills, the Kral could be your gun. If you want the lower weight and a plastic stock is OK with you and you like to not have to fill as much, the P35 is indicated. The P15 is about the same gun with side cocking (it's also lighter and has a wood stock). The Stoeger bullshark is very similar to the P35 but has a little bit longer barrel and a different stock and weighs about half a pound more. All these guns can be made quite quiet (85 db or less) for next to nothing (hair curler mod or in shroud moderator). If the Kral shroud can slide forward like the SPA guns it should be possible to do this on it too, however.
Some people seem to like to bash SPA made guns. I have three P35s and none has given me trouble. I've replaced a few O-rings in the oldest one I've had over a year now but that was mostly my fault. The least accurate will put 3 into a 1/4 inch group at 25 yards (the oldest, the 25 caliber). The 177 did a 184 on the 30 yard challenge and the 22 was in the mid 190s. For me as the shooter and for a short and light gun at the bench I think this is pretty good. The regulator on the 177 has not been working so great but I'm hoping clipping a little off the hammer spring will help it. I haven't tested it since. The regulator on the 22 and 25 gives me a ES of around 16 and a std dev under 5. You will not get that consistency in an unregulated guns and may not even if you spend more than a P35 costs on a regulated gun.
If you care more about looks than weight and if you can tolerate the more frequent refills, the Kral could be your gun. If you want the lower weight and a plastic stock is OK with you and you like to not have to fill as much, the P35 is indicated. The P15 is about the same gun with side cocking (it's also lighter and has a wood stock). The Stoeger bullshark is very similar to the P35 but has a little bit longer barrel and a different stock and weighs about half a pound more. All these guns can be made quite quiet (85 db or less) for next to nothing (hair curler mod or in shroud moderator). If the Kral shroud can slide forward like the SPA guns it should be possible to do this on it too, however.
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I have the Stoeger Bullshark version of the p35. It's lights out accurate, has a great shot count, a very tunable trigger (thanks JimD) and puts out plenty of power. Once I took the colored parts off it's a nice looking bullpup. It also has a 5 year warranty.
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Once the .25 version is available, I'd consider buying that bullpup. Your bullpup is sweet.
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Thanks! Look up JimD here. He has a P35 in .25 and is very knowledgeable about the platform.
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Yes, I saw that JimD has three P35s. I'd probably buy the Stoeger model since you can get them in the US. The shipping on the P35s seem crazy, considering it is the same bullpup.
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I'll admit to being impatient. I saw the Bullshark on Amazon, the price wasn't bad, shipping free, and buy it now is just too easy. The 5 year warranty offered by Stoeger helped too.
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I have the Bull Shark in .22 caliber. I am happy with my choice. If something breaks, the 5 year warranty is there. When I bought mine, I went to a gun store that is a Stoeger rifle and shotgun dealer. I have been doing business with them for about forty years. They ordered the gun for me. If something goes south, I know they will be behind me. The rifle is fun to shoot. Just ask my grandson. Hell, at 73 I ant a bad shot. I find it to be backyard friendly. The squirrels only hear it for a second.
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One of my airgun buddies on another forum 3d printed a suppressor that I added to my Bullshark. It's one of the quietest guns I own now. I also did the felt wrapped hair roller mod that Aaron Cantrell shows on is YouTube channel. I have one over the shroud exhaust holes and one and a half in front of the air stripper. I'm only using the first baffle from the factory stack to keep the rollers from slipping inside the air stripper.
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I have never owned a Krl XS, but do own a Kral Bighorn and Karl inspired Kratos, both are dependabe and powerful and very accurate.
I do own a Diana Skyhawk and have for a few years. The Skyhawk is either the King of the p-1/p-35 world or a silk purse made up of a sows ear, In my educated opinion. snowpeak is the Hatsn of China, the workmanship is terrible, the barrels are trash, the baffle system in the shroud is unworkable and they ate prone to failure in the fill system. I have had to rebarrel my Skyhawk, redesign a reliable fill system and the rifle has set in a box as a pile of parts for a period representing a third of its life. It now has the Jake Bowman forward lever system which having to shoot wrong handed is a blessing, but make no mistake, it is a 50/50 love -hate relationship. I keep shooting it because I love the handling chatrater rustics and that Gorgous walnut stock that Snowpeak had nothing to do with. As you can see, I have tried to make it work for years.
The Kral XS has the same type of walnut stock and will handle as well as the Snowpeak junk, but it is a family airloom quality item.
For me, Snowpeak is crap and Karl shines with precise quality.
Regards,
Roachcreek
I do own a Diana Skyhawk and have for a few years. The Skyhawk is either the King of the p-1/p-35 world or a silk purse made up of a sows ear, In my educated opinion. snowpeak is the Hatsn of China, the workmanship is terrible, the barrels are trash, the baffle system in the shroud is unworkable and they ate prone to failure in the fill system. I have had to rebarrel my Skyhawk, redesign a reliable fill system and the rifle has set in a box as a pile of parts for a period representing a third of its life. It now has the Jake Bowman forward lever system which having to shoot wrong handed is a blessing, but make no mistake, it is a 50/50 love -hate relationship. I keep shooting it because I love the handling chatrater rustics and that Gorgous walnut stock that Snowpeak had nothing to do with. As you can see, I have tried to make it work for years.
The Kral XS has the same type of walnut stock and will handle as well as the Snowpeak junk, but it is a family airloom quality item.
For me, Snowpeak is crap and Karl shines with precise quality.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Everybody is certainly entitled to their opinion, especially when it is based upon experience, Roachcreek. But if I remember right, you've had your P15/Diana for awhile and I wonder if SPA has stepped up their game from a quality standpoint. I think I see a little difference in my 177 and 22 purchased nine months more recently than my 25. My 177 and 22 are about 9 months old, my 25 is almost 18 months old. I'm thinking your SPA predates these guns significantly but maybe I'm wrong. I agree an o-ring with a screw through it is a crude fill valve but I read that the significantly more expensive Krait does the same thing. It's working for me although I had to change the o-ring on the 25 when I got into the air chamber to adjust the regulator. I also don't love the fill probe.
Your experience on Kral's is interesting. They are definitely more attactive in general than my SPAs, it's nice to hear they also shoot and perform well.
Your experience on Kral's is interesting. They are definitely more attactive in general than my SPAs, it's nice to hear they also shoot and perform well.
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Jim,
I doubt they have improved anything. They have no reason to as there is really no accountability for Chinese junk.
There is a thread going on these forums continually in one form or another regarding the barrel crown issues, I believe you have encountered this Issue yourselfa and posted on these threads. There is actually a new thread today on finding drop in barrels for these guns. For those who do not know, it is referred to as winning the barrel lottery if you actualy get one that will shoot a good 5 shot group, some post 3 shot groups which make it easier to produce group to post on the forums, but they are just fooling themselves.
They are China guns at their worst.
Krals use the tried and true fill nipple, not much to go wrong there. The Kral barrels only fault in my eyes is they are choked way too tight for slugs, but the barrel proper is very consistent in dimensions as opposed to the tight and loose spots commonly found in the Snowpeak barrels leading to that famous rusty drill bit crown others have suspected that are used to crown Snowpeak barrels.
It is a often documented quality control issue that wrapping the rifle in a cheap plastic stock will not cure.
RC
I doubt they have improved anything. They have no reason to as there is really no accountability for Chinese junk.
There is a thread going on these forums continually in one form or another regarding the barrel crown issues, I believe you have encountered this Issue yourselfa and posted on these threads. There is actually a new thread today on finding drop in barrels for these guns. For those who do not know, it is referred to as winning the barrel lottery if you actualy get one that will shoot a good 5 shot group, some post 3 shot groups which make it easier to produce group to post on the forums, but they are just fooling themselves.
They are China guns at their worst.
Krals use the tried and true fill nipple, not much to go wrong there. The Kral barrels only fault in my eyes is they are choked way too tight for slugs, but the barrel proper is very consistent in dimensions as opposed to the tight and loose spots commonly found in the Snowpeak barrels leading to that famous rusty drill bit crown others have suspected that are used to crown Snowpeak barrels.
It is a often documented quality control issue that wrapping the rifle in a cheap plastic stock will not cure.
RC
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This is my fix for the troublemattic P-15/p-35/Bullshark fill system.
Remove the gauge, drill it out and rethread for a street “T”, put a gauge on one side and a fill nipple on then other side. It is also far safer to use.
RC
Remove the gauge, drill it out and rethread for a street “T”, put a gauge on one side and a fill nipple on then other side. It is also far safer to use.
RC
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I can't find any specs that say if it's regulated or not.. Assuming it isn't or they would advertise that?
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