Killin' Stuff: An Essay on Ethics

I'm convinced that deep in the reptilian brain, most male humans are hard-wired to hunt and find it hard to suppress the “thrill of the kill”.

The scientific debate on whether and how evolution accounts for this is not settled, which I find curious. My non-scientific experience is that it's instinct, end-of-story. Why else does one's heart rate elevate while air gunning for mere pests such as house sparrows and rats?

What else could possibly explain the popularity of Ted's Holdover or Matt Dubber videos shooting starlings and feral pigeons? You'd think from their reactions on YouTube, they'd just shot a trophy elk. Its nuts, actually (and highly offensive to those who do not approve).

Those of us who allow ourselves to flip the "kill something" switch have discovered that we're just as hard-wired to stalk, ambush and kill as a Neanderthal 60,000 years ago or a modern house cat today. The heartbeat always quickens to a live, legal target, however small. I'm guilty as charged. 

This is not to mention the bonus (mostly male) instinct to project power with precision. Whether it’s an air gun or Marine artillery, guys like to shoot stuff. All the better if the target breaks, makes noise, blows up - or dies. This explains the overwhelming popularity of video games.

Yes, if we are honest with ourselves we will admit the obvious.

We should never pretend, varminting is merely some "pest job", as if someone called the Orkin man who's just trying to get through his 8-hours. Actually, varminting and hunting is fun.

Critics suggest some twisted penchant for cruelty is the true motivator. But I can assure you cruelty is not part of the equation. Cruelty is several layers of Superego removed from reptilian instinct. It requires forethought and malice. I do not believe that's the part of the brain that lights up on a hunt. It doesn't even register. With quarry in the sights, there's no time to ponder as one tries to settle the nervous breathing. If you find yourself hunting to be cruel, stop and see a therapist.

I don't apologize for any of it, because we were wired to hunt by evolution for good reason -- notably survival.

However, if cruelty is not part of the calculus, ethics most certainly is.

Is it ethical that things should die for mere entertainment or instinctual satisfaction, when survival is not at stake?

I'm not a particularly religious person, but do subscribe to the concept of a "Creator" and the idea that nature and the cosmos function with a greater, undefinable spiritual power involved. Not exactly "God's Plan” in a literal sense, but at least the idea that we, and the world we live in, are not here by accident. I'll add that I view life, self-awareness, and nature as a gift.

Even so, any observer can see the "Creator" has set up a world where life and death are in constant conflict, and one does not happen without the other. Hobbes said it best: Existence is "...nasty, brutish, and short."

In fact, Nature is unspeakably cruel. Watch Animal Planet and you will see that predators eviscerate prey while the victims are still alive and struggling. To a high percentile, animals suffer slow, agonizing deaths from predation, hunger, thirst, disease, heat, and cold -- not to mention those unlucky enough to have to crawl off the roadside with broken hips and bleeding organs to suffer for hours after being struck by a vehicle.

The stockyard and slaughterhouse are arguably even worse. Animals crowded, afraid, and helpless after leading industrial lives with no dignity whatsoever.

There is no hospice for wildlife where they pass to the great beyond with their cute, fuzzy relatives gathered 'round them to say goodbye. This is the Disney anthropomorphic fantasy version that I suppose some antis adhere to. They are wrong.

Through this lens, meeting the inevitable at the hands of a skilled and humane sportsman, actually starts looking pretty good, perhaps even noble, especially when you consider the reverence many of us have for nature, wildlife and conservation -- and the freedom that these animals enjoyed in life compared to their factory-farmed cousins. 

It's why I always roll my eyes at anti's who might want to lecture me about how you should only "kill to survive" minutes after they have consumed a ham sandwich. I don't see the difference between hunting for sport -- and eating a slaughtered turkey at Thanksgiving. Death is not discerning that way.

Even so, as creatures with the gift of intellect and consciousness, this "nature is more cruel" argument does not give us license to deal death at will, or indulge the "thrill of the kill" for no good reason. Merely satifying "instinct" is not a good enough justification.

The death we deal for sport must be purposeful and legal. Legitimate overpopulated "pests" and invasive species that displace local wildlife are two good examples. Wildlife that is harvested and consumed by us, so much the better. Especially when byproducts such as fur and hides are put to greater use. Legitimate wildlife management and conservation goals provide more justification. 

We should kill as quickly and humanely as possible in every circumstance. A botched kill is a grim experience. Even hunters have empathy.

If you are into air gunning because you like "killin' stuff" -- if you think You Tubes of squirrels getting popped are cool -- it’s OK by me. That's your instinct talking. You shouldn't have to apologize for it.

On the other hand, ethically, it's worth pausing to reflect on that fact that life is a gift that should not be destroyed without ascribing some meaning or purpose.

So buy a hunting license, observe wildlife management and conservation laws, eat what you kill, or in the case of pests -- keep it legal. It's OK to enjoy the thrill of the kill. It's not OK to be wasteful and purposeless. (And if you're an American dentist who paid tens of thousands for a lion hunt in Africa, best not to kill the one that has the radio tracking collar, a name [Cecil], and a Twitter account. Use your head).

Keep it real and keep it ethical. It makes explaining it to those who are offended, a whole lot easier.
 
THANK YOU FPR POSTING THIS. IT MAKES ALOT OF SENCE AND IT SUMS UP ME. I LOVE NATURE. WITH OUT NATURE MY SPIRIT AS A HUMAN BEING WOULD BE NEXT TO WORTHLESS. AND I AM A SPORTSMAN AND I HUNT BOTH BIG AND SMALL GAME. IT TRULY IS A SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE.
TO THE CREATOR I SAY THANK YOU TO THE ANIAMLS AND TO PUTTING ME ON THIS EARTH TO LOVE ALL THAT IS WILD AND FREE.
 
Very well written Flex. I agree with your take on 'killin stuff' and honor those principles when out in the woods. Thanks for posting this well written opinion.

d14f843d7f76908cb2e7bc2f113ae2cf.jpg

PS- This guy got a pass.
John
 
The "Creator" did not set up a world where life and death are in constant conflict. That was caused by the introduction of disobedience by man to the Creators command which changed the entire fabric of creation from perfect to imperfect. Disobedience gave rise to death and suffering which never existed prior to that action by mankind! Everything since is the result of man making the "wrong" choices which always brings suffering of MANY who had nothing to do with the bad choices of the perpetrator!

The result is something will always die so you might live ............... whether you eat plant or animal!

Thurmond
 
"JohnL57"Very well written Flex. I agree with your take on 'killin stuff' and honor those principles when out in the woods. Thanks for posting this well written opinion.

d14f843d7f76908cb2e7bc2f113ae2cf.jpg

PS- This guy got a pass.
John
As long as he ain't carrying a drum and a battery in is back thats cool.... otherwise its WAR
I wish we had got a picture but a couple of years ago me and my wife went to our local archery club to do some 3d target practice a doe is standing right by one of the 3d bucks..... First words out of my wife's mouth, Now that is a realistic target 
 
"So buy a hunting license, observe wildlife management and conservation laws, eat what you kill, or in the case of pests — keep it legal. It’s OK to enjoy the thrill of the kill. It’s not OK to be wasteful and purposeless. (And if you’re an American dentist who paid tens of thousands for a lion hunt in Africa, best not to kill the one that has the radio tracking collar, a name [Cecil], and a Twitter account. Use your head).Keep it real and keep it ethical. It makes explaining it to those who are offended, a whole lot easier."

Well said. I found the comments above particularly compelling. There is lots of room for subjective opinion around this issue. I tend to draw a clearer distinction between hunting for game you'll eat, pesting and what I often see on airgun boards as just gratuitous and pointless killing.

R
 
"T3PRanch"The "Creator" did not set up a world where life and death are in constant conflict. That was caused by the introduction of disobedience by man to the Creators command which changed the entire fabric of creation from perfect to imperfect. Disobedience gave rise to death and suffering which never existed prior to that action by mankind! Everything since is the result of man making the "wrong" choices which always brings suffering of MANY who had nothing to do with the bad choices of the perpetrator!

The result is something will always die so you might live ............... whether you eat plant or animal!

Thurmond
Well said. 
Not a believer in the Theistic Evolution theory.
 
"Ghostmaker""Reptile Brain, Reptillian Instinct" ? Last time I checked I was a mammal. Lol what do you know that I don't? Haha
The brain stem is the oldest and smallest region in the evolving human brain. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago and is more like the entire brain of present-day reptiles. For this reason, it is often called the 'reptilian brain'.


From Carl Sagan's book, "The Dragons of Eden: Speculations on the Evolution of Human Intelligence.

The schematic of a human's Triune Brain is as follows:

* The Reptilian Complex * The Limbic System * The Neocortex

Declaring that there is considerable evidence for the localization of brain function--as well as discussing in detail the electrochemical nature of brain function--Sagan lays the groundwork with his depth discussion of the Triune Brain.

The Reptilian Complex is the site from which our propensity arises for "aggressive behavior, territoriality, and the establishment of social hierarchies." The Reptilian Complex still performs dinosaur functions, according to Sagan. [Ibid, pp. 62-63.]

The Limbic System is mammalian. It is the base for our emotions. Our passions, our altruistic behavior, spawn from the Limbic System-- which also is devoted to oral, gustatory, and sexual functions.

The Neocortex is our third, newly human brain in terms of evolution. "Among other functions, the frontal lobes seem to be connected with deliberation and the regulation of action; the parietal lobes, with spatial perception and the exchange of information between the brain and the rest of the body; the temporal lobes with a variety of complex perceptual taks; and the occipital lobes, with vision, the dominant sense in humans..." Sagan suggests, too, that the Neocortex is the locus for abstract thinking and nonverbal intuition. The Neocortex is what makes possible our judgments, what makes for the moral knowledge of good and evil. It is also the site from which our creativity emerges. And the Neocortex is home to our sense of self. [Ibid, p. 98.]
 
I am also an adament critic of Charlie Darwin's Theory. 

Evolution is dead. It is dead on the basis of Charlie Darwin Himself.

Charlie Darwin said, "My theory, in order to survive needs to be supported by "MANY THOUSANDS OF TRANSITIONAL SPECIMENS" If in the coming years these "transitional creatures" (Half fish-half mammal" Half-bird-half dinosaur) are not found then my theory must be regarded as utter nonesense!!! Charlie Darwin's own words!! (Slightly paraphrased)

For the record, NOT ONE SINGLE TRANSITIONAL CREATURE has been found to date!! (A horse turning into a dog or something like that) NOT ONE!! Never mind many thousands, as Charlie himself said MUST be found in the fossil record in order for this theory to have relevance!!

The only reason this craziness(Macro-evolution) is still around is because people are desperately trying to find a way to quiet their conscience and to convince themselves that there is no great day of reckoning coming!

Let's be real men!! Judgment day IS COMING!! Jesus Christ will REIGN SUPREME!! All who will not Bow the knee will suffer the consequences!!

If Charles Darwin Himself refuses to support his own theory with the current evidence from the fossil record, then it is fair to say, EVOLUTION IS DEAD!! 
 
"MoeHofer"I am also an adament critic of Charlie Darwin's Theory. 

Evolution is dead. It is dead on the basis of Charlie Darwin Himself.

Charlie Darwin said, "My theory, in order to survive needs to be supported by "MANY THOUSANDS OF TRANSITIONAL SPECIMENS" If in the coming years these "transitional creatures" (Half fish-half mammal" Half-bird-half dinosaur) are not found then my theory must be regarded as utter nonesense!!! Charlie Darwin's own words!! (Slightly paraphrased)

For the record, NOT ONE SINGLE TRANSITIONAL CREATURE has been found to date!! (A horse turning into a dog or something like that) NOT ONE!! Never mind many thousands, as Charlie himself said MUST be found in the fossil record in order for this theory to have relevance!!

The only reason this craziness(Macro-evolution) is still around is because people are desperately trying to find a way to quiet their conscience and to convince themselves that there is no great day of reckoning coming!

Let's be real men!! Judgment day IS COMING!! Jesus Christ will REIGN SUPREME!! All who will not Bow the knee will suffer the consequences!!

If Charles Darwin Himself refuses to support his own theory with the current evidence from the fossil record, then it is fair to say, EVOLUTION IS DEAD!!
Probably going to get negative accuracy for this, but, looking at MoeHoffer's accuracy, someone gave him negative feedback for this post. How is it fair or remotely just to criticize him for replying to another person religious post with his own?

Aside form evolution being labeled "science", it's just another faith based religion.

Call me a troll but when you start posting like the OP's and mingle things like ethics, creator, and the like, the topic is going to turn this way. i have not read all the forum rules, but if the rules indicate no political, religious topics, then the OP's cannot be excluded from the rules.

I just looked for forum rules and could not find anything stating these topics couldn't be discussed. If I missed it, would someone correct me.

If they are permitted, then those that do not approve of such discussions shouldn't read them, let alone be permitted to leave a negative accuracy rating.

NFT
 
Well, it seems I've really stepped in it by referencing the concept of a "Creator" and suggesting that instinct is evolutionary. You all may note that I do not advocate or proselytize my particular beliefs as any sort of cosmic truth, nor do I suggest that anyone else accept them. I only mentioned them to let you all know where I was coming from, as it relates to my conclusions about ethical behavior and hunting. Others may arrive at similar conclusions from different starting points. I don't think we need to ding each other's accuracy ratings over matters of religion vs. science, which won't be settled on an air gun forum. This post is not intended to spark another Scopes Monkey Trial. It's not like somebody is lying about their valve modifications and group sizes. I'd like to keep the comments and discussion going in that vien if possible? Perhaps I should have included a warning label: FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY. Best Regards and thanks for reading.
 
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I read all the comments, and true to my longstanding belief I can NEVER be 'offended.' It is impossible. I am an adult and know what I believe and accept that others have different opinions, thoughts.

I enjoyed his comments of hunting and all that was said as it was well written and it puts a different spin on the world to consider others' thoughts. We grow (hopefully) as beings to retain knowledge and apply it later. Docking someone for being intelligent is childish. I usually don't see comments sway this direction but in some posts of the more ethical nature (to kill or not to) it has happened.
In any case, I am glad this forum is here as it does offer us a place to ask for advice or take things in stride or just to be entertained.
 
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I came in way too strong here and completely sidetracked this thread guys, I am sorry. I took this way off the track that Flex intended this to be on.
If someone did to my thread what I did to this one I would be justified in being angry and upset.

I'm sorry outdoorman to you also for jumping to conclusions on my - post. I certainly erred there too. :-( I trust from your you will also be able to forgive my hastiness.


 
I literally grew up in a sporting good store, which allowed my family and me to travel to many exotic places to hunt and fish. Now at the age of 77, I still hunt and fish, but with somewhat less exoticness (and less enthusiasm!).

The prime reason we hunted and fished, was for the sport of it. In fact, I can't remember ever thinking of an ulterior motive for the hunt. Yes, we brought the game home for the food larder, but not as a main staple. While friendships were renewed, and favorite places revisited, it was always for the sport. 

As for eating a slaughtered turkey for Thanksgiving, or eating fish on Fridays? To me, they have nothing to do with the sport of hunting and fishing.