Karma in the American air gun market!

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Some of you did not search very hard, or try the provided links. Here is an easy one: https://casetext.com/case/united-states-v-smith-1742

It is about providing firearms and silencers to persons in Hong Kong (that would be China) without permits and numerous related violations including money laundering. Easy public record search.

There is no airgun angle or LDC misconstrue on this at all; it was about illegal arms export, controlled items, etc. TO China.. Get it? Not airguns, not a simple matter of paperwork or a misunderstanding of airgun components. 

I don't know the defendants or their defence (at least one pled guilty), but the speculation is easily cleared up with the most basic of searches and we might owe it to our hobby and industry to look it up before typing.

Some of the other allegations in the replies are also easily cleared up with very basic Google searches... 
 
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"daveshoot"Some of you did not search very hard, or try the provided links. Here is an easy one: https://casetext.com/case/united-states-v-smith-1742

It is about providing firearms and silencers to persons in Hong Kong (that would be China) without permits and numerous related violations including money laundering. Easy public record search.

There is no airgun angle or LDC misconstrue on this at all; it was about illegal arms export, controlled items, etc. TO China.. Get it? Not airguns, not a simple matter of paperwork or a misunderstanding of airgun components. 

I don't know the defendants or their defence (at least one pled guilty), but the speculation is easily cleared up with the most basic of searches and we might owe it to our hobby and industry to look it up before typing.

Some of the other allegations in the replies are also easily cleared up with very basic Google searches...
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That document does not provide any details of the products they are accused of illegally exporting. It just deals with a specific ruling around the fairness of a joint trial based on an aledged unethical meeting that took place without one of their lawyers present. It does however indicate that, at least at that point in time, the defendants were claiming to be innocent. It does not describe how they ended up in this situation. 

If there is no relavence to the air gun world then there is nothing more we need to discuss about it here. It sounds like they will be getting punished for whatever the crime was and I doubt the courts need our help with that.... Taking joy from the misery of others is not an attractive quality....
 
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MOD EDIT: just in case some of you misread this users topic... The new owners of WWAG & TGAG were not involved in the illegal activity described above.
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Neither was the owner of East Coast Airguns LLC 

It seems our anonymous Mr. "leadhead" has mentioned more names that were not involved with illegal activity than he did names that were.

Was that accidental, Mr. Leadhead? Or was it intentional? If the former, perhaps you owe some people an apology.

If the latter, perhaps moreso.
 
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"fe7565"They bought that misery on themselves by years of deliberate activities...I save my sympathy for those who make an honest mistake. Read the case file(s) before pulling judgments out of your...
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No judgement here. Hate all you want to hate.

I don't have a dog in this fight either way. Frankly I don't have a clue what this is about. I don't even care what it is about. I simply agree with a man's opinion with respect to the "mob mentality" I'm seeing here?

Apparently some people liked these guys and some didn't. That pretty much seems to be the way it is for anyone.
 
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"oldspook"
"fe7565"They bought that misery on themselves by years of deliberate activities...I save my sympathy for those who make an honest mistake. Read the case file(s) before pulling judgments out of your...
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No judgement here. Hate all you want to hate.

I don't have a dog in this fight either way. Frankly I don't have a clue what this is about. I don't even care what it is about. I simply agree with a man's opinion with respect to the "mob mentality" I'm seeing here?

Apparently some people liked these guys and some didn't. That pretty much seems to be the way it is for anyone.
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I agree, if you have no clue about something...it's always smarter not to make blanket comments about other blanket comments.


I believe that the OP wanted to bring attention to the fact in our airgun hobby instead of free market forces there are some shady characters who who are ready to manipulate/control and in some cases cross the lines between law and lawlessness. This is an interest to our hobby because having some airgun industry big-names with influence on our hobby engage in illegal firearms/ammo sales to foreign entities bring discredit and unwarranted attention by the Feds.

I can't speak to the original OP's intention if it was deliberate to mix in the legitimate business partners of those charged with the crimes, he may need to answer that himself. It does make things murky and certainly may project negatively on folks who do not have any direct involvement with the criminal cases. 
 
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To my small understanding a air gun LDC will not work on a power burner,
It might work if you slowed the power burner down to under 1000 FPS,
But come on be real , Who the hell is going to do that...
I have handled and looked at a real Silencer what went on a Ruger 308 , It was nothing like the LDC that us air gunners shoot with.
I even made the remark, LIKE TO PUT THAT ON MY Cricket, The officer reply was NOPE, You can not do that its built as a firearm silencer.

Mike
 
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"zebra"
"daveshoot"Some of you did not search very hard, or try the provided links. Here is an easy one: https://casetext.com/case/united-states-v-smith-1742

It is about providing firearms and silencers to persons in Hong Kong (that would be China) without permits and numerous related violations including money laundering. Easy public record search.

There is no airgun angle or LDC misconstrue on this at all; it was about illegal arms export, controlled items, etc. TO China.. Get it? Not airguns, not a simple matter of paperwork or a misunderstanding of airgun components. 

I don't know the defendants or their defence (at least one pled guilty), but the speculation is easily cleared up with the most basic of searches and we might owe it to our hobby and industry to look it up before typing.

Some of the other allegations in the replies are also easily cleared up with very basic Google searches...
Click to expand...
That document does not provide any details of the products they are accused of illegally exporting. It just deals with a specific ruling around the fairness of a joint trial based on an aledged unethical meeting that took place without one of their lawyers present. It does however indicate that, at least at that point in time, the defendants were claiming to be innocent. It does not describe how they ended up in this situation. 

If there is no relavence to the air gun world then there is nothing more we need to discuss about it here. It sounds like they will be getting punished for whatever the crime was and I doubt the courts need our help with that.... Taking joy from the misery of others is not an attractive quality....

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the documentation provided does prove is read in depth as seen in the image provided

this is not only being held trial here, but also in HK after the proceedings are totally done here they may also face international charges
not mentioned in the documentation unless the plea deal excludes trials in china

 
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And if only dealin with firearms...Then what's the point are you attacking the individual /s involved / the whole company / or what?
Okay a few bigwigs that had ownership of a airgun store got caught selling guns to China
If one of your friends or family members breaks the law do you want us to hold you at fault along with them just because your associated with them? You punched a lot of names in the thread that apparently did not have anything to do with the crime.
While others try to discuss or discover what exactly these charges has to do with airguns are attacked for apparently straying off topic? if it isn't about air-guns and or possible threats to airgun related goods then what's the point?
 
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 Personally I am glad this thread is unlocked. If you are a dishonest dealer it's no different than a dishonest individual.
Some have said (more or less) " it's not airguns so?" There were (some of them) airgun dealers and "I" don't care what MAJOR law they broke "I" do NOT wish to support anyone engaging in such actions.
You are who you hang out ( & do business with) with.

RickM,, really? You are that ignorant of the time line/facts? Or?
Remember ," your who you hang out with?" And folks tend to get indited that way. 
It might be that right when this case was most active, ole Steve of WW (different than todays owners of business(s) ) purchased all the advertising revenue (how ever that works) from ole Steve Yellow. Now "I" cant see anything wrong there -somewhat confusing behind the scenes advertising slants perhaps but that's not any crime- BUT just doing business with a bigtime criminal ( legal business even eh?) IS enough to get invited to their party ( indictment).

Slightly OT here:
There may well be a famous tuner/designer in the UK, GOOD guy! GREAT work, great airgun mind, nice guy ........ but, ...... he had a ( intimate ) friend engaged in human trafficking and when they were arrested HE helped hide evidence. And "some" people STILL love the guy, rave about him, he's my friend, a good guy. NOT to me, "I" greatly prefer NOT to deal with such.

Many people have NO idea the airgun chain, who's who ..... . and I hope they enjoy airguns as much as I always have. Every now and then I learn a behind the scene FACT . Normally this are GOODS things. But sometimes there are bad, and bad enough that I ( and anyone I can tell ) will NOT deal with such folk.

Which brings me back to :
"Personally I am glad this thread is unlocked."

I had the information ( documented facts) to shut down the Filarms scam LONG before they got their 2 CNC machines, $60,000+ cash, barrels, tanks,...... and vanished ( well no one works for inuite and the other brother runs a food truck in CAS, naturally the associated dealer who helped with fake imports crap is still doing well, but ya know what I mean).

However there was at that time NO forum which would allow such a post.

Please just edit the trollish posts if needed ( feel free to edit me it is your forum) but please do keep allowing facts to be posted. 

Now lets all go shoot some airguns!




John











 
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"RickM"If it's guilt by association where's Joe B's name then? He bought Peter's business so shouldn't he be guilty to then. What's the agenda here for naming names that have nothing to do with Peter's bad business dealings!
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The guilt by association is only in your imagination. They were mentioned only to make clear that they had no involvement in these illegal activities. 

R
 
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"fe7565"
"oldspook"
"fe7565"They bought that misery on themselves by years of deliberate activities...I save my sympathy for those who make an honest mistake. Read the case file(s) before pulling judgments out of your...
Click to expand...
No judgement here. Hate all you want to hate.

I don't have a dog in this fight either way. Frankly I don't have a clue what this is about. I don't even care what it is about. I simply agree with a man's opinion with respect to the "mob mentality" I'm seeing here?

Apparently some people liked these guys and some didn't. That pretty much seems to be the way it is for anyone.
Click to expand...
I agree, if you have no clue about something...it's always smarter not to make blanket comments about other blanket comments.


I believe that the OP wanted to bring attention to the fact in our airgun hobby instead of free market forces there are some shady characters who who are ready to manipulate/control and in some cases cross the lines between law and lawlessness. This is an interest to our hobby because having some airgun industry big-names with influence on our hobby engage in illegal firearms/ammo sales to foreign entities bring discredit and unwarranted attention by the Feds.

I can't speak to the original OP's intention if it was deliberate to mix in the legitimate business partners of those charged with the crimes, he may need to answer that himself. It does make things murky and certainly may project negatively on folks who do not have any direct involvement with the criminal cases. 




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;)
 
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"EMrider"
The guilt by association is only in your imagination. They were mentioned only to make clear that they had no involvement in these illegal activities.
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I disagree. If that were true, then thousands of names would have had to be "mentioned."

Instead, I think it's obvious that Mr. leadhead's intention was deliberate guilt by association and insinuation. The opening text of his post supports that unfortunate interpretation of axe grinding.

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