Kalibrgun Argus 60 Regulator Creep - To Fix or Not To Fix

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Archdesigner03

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Feb 28, 2021
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California, United States
As the title says, after about 4000 happy rounds through the barrel, I noticed my gun starts to develop regulator creep and pretty sure that's the issue after tons of research and readings on this forum and gateway to airguns. My first shot after letting it sit over night or weeks is slow. Initially, it's about 30 fps slower ( at about 3500 rounds) than my normal tune of 860 fps with 18 grain. Now is getting progressive worse as my first shot letting sit for about 3 days is at 795 fps, that's a huge 65 fps difference. After the slow first shot, the next shots are back to the normal 860 fps tune.

I don't really have a problem of dry fire a round or two before each use but it seems to me the problem can get progressive worse. How bad can it get if I don't address the issue? Will this problem somehow cause other problems that I'm not aware of?

Now, I'm contemplating my options.

1. Leave it alone and deal with the reg creep. I don't really have a problem of dry fire couple of rounds before each use but it seems to me its getting progressively worse.

2. I got this gun from AOA and its still have about 3 months warranty left, do I send it back to have them look at it? Will they view this as a manufacturer's defect and honor the warranty? I have yet to reach out to them but will plan to. I'm pretty sure they have good gunsmiths but there is always a fear of receiving it back worse condition then I send them and no guarantee there won’t be any creep after it’s been repaired.

3. Try to fix the regulator myself by polishing the belville and sanding the valve surface? There isn't much info on new Kalibrgun Argus regulator and any info would be greatly appreciated. The major hurtle is I never taken the gun apart before and afraid I might break something. But overall I'm pretty competent around tools, just don't have experience taking apart a high priced pcp gun.

4. Looks like Huma have a regulator for the Argus. Anybody have experience with that particular regulator? How is the performance and ease of installation? Will it eventually have reg creep overtime as well?

https://www.huma-air.com/Kalibr-Argus-Tuning-Regulator-By-Huma-Air

5. Hire a airgunsmith. Any reputable airgunsmith in Nor Cal / Sacramento region that have experience with this particular gun? The warranty will run out sooner or later, better start making friends with airgunsmiths in my region haha.

Thanks in advance.
 
my 2 cents,, is that your regulator is set higher than needed for for 860fps tune. I bet you can go faster by adjusting the hammer spring in, because you are not tuned to the knee. I had this problem with my Sapson, I fixed by lowering my reg pressure and setting the hammer spring to just a small amount below max velocity at a set pressure

Simply lowering the speed by hammer spring adjusting alone, is not really tuning a gun, it is just riding the brake, so to speak
 
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@enkey

I would have to agree with you with option 4, might as well get a reputable huma regulator and go from there.

@jarmstrong

You are correct, I can go faster by adjusting the hammer spring. It came from the factory shooting 25 grain monster redesigns at 900-920 fps but only getting 50 shots. Its getting moa groups at 75 yards and don't want to mess with the regulator so I can adjust the hammer spring between 25 grain and 18 grain. With the 18 grain, I am getting 1032 fps at full hammer spring but wanted to get more shots out of it so I ease off on the hammer spring to shoot 18 grains at 860 fps while getting 120 shots out of it. I think the factory regulator is finely tuned, not sure what bar the regulator is set at though. Just wished it doesn't creep.


 
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just my opinion again,, you do not need a Huma (yes they are good) you just need to have your gun TUNED for the speed you want,, even if you get a Huma, you have have to set it for the tune you want. You have to much plenum pressure and it affects the first shot. I think, my theory , I am just an old nut job that tunes his own rifles

A: have AOA lower the reg pressure for the ft/lb energy you want , if you are worried about warranty

B: get a hold of Scott, aka motorhead on this forum, he is a very good tuner in the northern Cal. area, way up north
 
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Jarmstrong,

I get your theory of tuning the regulator to the speed I want to shoot the pellet, makes sense. Perhaps 4% slower than max speed per my research shows. But wouldn't this method just mask the reg creep problem? Whichever is the case, I have plans to tune to the knee in the near future to explore my gun in depth. 
 
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to me, it is a balance problem, the plenum is a fat guy vs a skinny guy (hammer spring) on a teetor todder. It does not take much effort for the fat guy to bounce the skinny guy around, but when near equal, a little creep has minor effect. It is the out of balance condition that magnifies the regulator's creep's power to effect the fps first shot. I think all regs creep a little, but when the hammer spring is balanced or equal in power to the plenum, the poppet opening remains consistent. Over power the hammer spring and you just waste air, under power the spring will cause a more extreme spread.

sorry I do not have a scientific or engineering answer, but if it masks or reduces the problem to where you do not see it anymore, it solves the problem in my world. It stopped my Sapsan from shooting an inch low at 45 yds for a first shot. Hopefully someone, more experienced than I, can come alone and explain it better.

drawing https://kalibrgun.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/ARGUS_45W-Cal.22.pdf
 
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You cannot ”tune” your gun very well for 2 differen weights of ammunition by only adjusting the hammerspring tension.
your first shot low is most likely caused by a too low hammerspring tension. Try upping you hammerspring a quarter turn and check again. When your desired speed of your regular shots is getting too high by doing this then lower you reg setting first. Try a tune 5-6 meters under your plateau velocity and check if you have still this “first shot low” issue. I think your “problem” will be solved by following my advice.
 
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Just a quick update on my regulator creep situation, it has gotten to the point that it is starting to bother me so I am going to replace it. I just received my argus regulator from huma air and it appears the regulator works for cricket I, cricket II, and the argus based on the label of the packaging.

I am however looking to fix factory regulator first and have been looking at cricket regulator spare parts replacements by Lane regulator, anybody have experience with replacements parts and how does it perform? I really like this route as the derlin adjustment screw part number "E" are replaceable. That plastic piece seems to be the most common problem when a regulator goes bad.

www.ebay.co.uk

Kalibrgun 'Cricket' Regulator & Spare Parts - Made In The UK by Lane Regulators. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Kalibrgun 'Cricket' Regulator & Spare Parts - Made In The UK by Lane Regulators. at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!
www.ebay.co.uk

I am assume the Lane replacements parts works on cricket II as well based on the link below and I have no reason to doubt the same regulator is used for the Argus. Please chime in if I'm wrong.

Tuning - Current Kalibrgun regulator adjustment?

Maybe it's a sign that nobody really NEEDS to do this, there are not any current videos about adjusting the regulators in the Cricket II lineup. Can anyone confirm if the regulators in the current crickets are like the older models? Here's a video that Ernest Rowe published in 2015: ...
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com

Below is a pic of the label from Huma Air.
Huma Air Kalibrgun Argus.jpg
 
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there is most probably nothing wrong with your argus reg. Nothing wrong with the HUMA reg and now you start buying even more stuff. Funny guy …. I gave you a good advice how to proceed but obviously you think it is about buying new parts that are replacing non broken parts Instead of trying what I (and others in this thread) told you. Without the ability to set reg pressure and hammerspring in harmony for a specific projectile at a desired or optimum speed it becomes a struggle to get your gun at optimum shooting condition. Kalibr Gun are nice guns but they should have their regs easily accessible with a good pressure gauge for verifying set pressure. Only then this and other brands that lack the same accessibility issue can get on par with rifles that have the reg easily accessible. Unless you are a happy shooter with “out of the box” settings and that is possible of course but that would limit you usage . It is like buying a car with the limitation to use some gears.
if you are unsure about your current reg, just slap in the HUMA. Start at about 110-120 bar and see what you get with a proper tune (simplified, approx.6 m/s below plateau) . Keep your tools at hand for further chnge of reg if you are not 100% satisfied. Believe me it is not possible to have your gun tuned well for 18 and 25 grain allike with the same reg setting and just fiddle with you hammerspring.
 
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@ladwict

I am taking very body's valuable advice here, including yours.

This is my first high end gun and a little nervous of taking the first step of taking the gun apart. I tend to over research to gather data to be safe. My air supply is limited to only a great white air tank so I need to limit my trial and error to a small degree.

And yes, I am pretty sure my factory reg is going bad. It definitely needs to be replaced. First shot is usually 790-830 range, second shot 860-880 range, third shot is 880 range, it's the fourth and next series of shot that lands at my tune of 860.

I have thus far gather a few data pertaining to Kalibrgun Argus 60 factory reg pressure at 105 bar, 110 bar, and at 118 bar... Which is pretty spot on from your suggestion to start the huma reg from 110-120 bar range.

I just tested my huma reg and it's at 132 bar, which is not far off from their tape reading of 130 bar and will turn it down and go from there.

I am sure you are right about not being possible to tune for two different pellet weight but the 25 mrd at full hammer is going 910 fps and shooting moa at 75 yards, I definitely don't want to lose that. Could it shoot farther and more accurate going faster? Perhaps...but I am happy with the factory reg pressure... for now 🙂. I initially bought this gun to shoot 18 grain and is shooting pretty consistent at 860fps with only backing off on the hammer spring.

I do have a question, how many bars to I need to fill the gun to get an accurate reading on the tune? Is starting at 200 bar enough?
 
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