K Baffles

[Smitty911]

Looks good. I designed an AIRGUN (AIRGUN) *AIRGUN* (trying to be very specific here ) supressor with k baffles and it works very well.

I printed the entire thing in one piece through since I didn't want to make a seperate can.

Here is the version I designed for a Taipan Veteran. I adjusted it a little for my FX Impact and it works very well on that.

Taipan-Veteran-Clear,jpg by Colo CJ, on Flickr

Taipan-Veteran-Cutaway by Colo CJ, on Flickr

Taipan-Veteran-Render by Colo CJ, on Flickr

By looking at the cut away, it appears to be I think it's called a Tesla Valve?? Seen them used in water flow.

Smitty

Smitty

 

[Squack]

Are paintball and airgun sound suppressers considered NFA weapons?​

The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by Alphabet org’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from Alphabet org and pay the required tax.

Copied from the Alphabet org website

 

[OldSpook]

Are paintball and airgun sound suppressers considered NFA weapons?​

The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by 3 letter organization’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from 3 letter organization and pay the required tax.

Copied from the 3 letter organization website

There is a link to a court case in my sig. If you're going to do research do it in depth. Read what you find at that link and come to your own conclusions.

 

[OldSpook]

By looking at the cut away, it appears to be I think it's called a Tesla Valve?? Seen them used in water flow.

Smitty

Smitty

I need to do some reading on that thanks for the reference.

 

[Squack]

OldSpook, The Official statement is, "If we must prove intent, then we cannot enforce the law without Congressional intervention."

I walked away from this discussion after the actions of Mod3, which I found distasteful and unprofessional.

 

[badger5th]

Are paintball and airgun sound suppressers considered NFA weapons?​

The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by 3 letter organization’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from 3 letter organization and pay the required tax.

Copied from the 3 letter organization website

I've seen that position statement many times. A couple of points (1) They did not say "all", most", or "a majority" have been tested and... By corollary, numerous paintball and airgun silences have also would have been found not to be firearm silencers. (2) Keep in mind cannabis is still illegal on the federal level. It is deliberately unenforced by the Feds against states that allow its recreational use. Possibly they are looking at the NUMEROUS airgun moderators and their distributors and retailers the same way??

IMO, The 3 letter bois had to make the position statement the way they did IMO it's a scare tactic by the agency to discourage the use of "edgy" but otherwise what they know are legal devices. YET, there is no enforcement to speak of as seen by DonnyFL et.al. not being in Club Fed. Regards

 

[Squack]

If you look at all the major airgun moderators, they are designed to vent air pressure from the back like a filter.

I honestly don't care what happens. I have bought my stamps and can easily switch.

 

[badger5th]

If you look at all the major airgun moderators, they are designed to vent air pressure from the back like a filter.

I honestly don't care what happens. I have bought my stamps and can easily switch.

I was not aware of that general design feature, interesting. I wish I could form 4 a can, not for me in Mass... Regards

 

[OldSpook]

If you look at all the major airgun moderators, they are designed to vent air pressure from the back like a filter.

I honestly don't care what happens. I have bought my stamps and can easily switch.

This is not correct. Designs for airguns are generally quite similar to designs for firearms.

There are some which are simply hair curlers in a tube but generally they are similar because they perform the same function.

A baffle is a baffle is a baffle... Now then a baffle designed to take firearms heat and pressures will be constructed of materials which can survive those conditions. A baffle intended for airgun use only does not need to meet those heat and pressure requirements. I hope that clarify the "intent" argument for you.

If you don't care enough to do due diligence when passing out information ... Meh nevermind ...

 

[Texasplinker]

By looking at the cut away, it appears to be I think it's called a Tesla Valve?? Seen them used in water flow.

Smitty

Smitty

That is not a tesla valve. Though the idea may have some merit as a suppressor design.

This appears to be k baffles venting into adjacent chambers along the way. A proven design.

 

[Smitty911]

That is not a tesla valve. Though the idea may have some merit as a suppressor design.

This appears to be k baffles venting into adjacent chambers along the way. A proven design.

K baffles, look a lot like a Tesla Valve a proven design, even the STO brings it up in his discussion of attenuation methods. So which came first Tesla or K Baffles? My money is on Tesla. The function appears to be basically the same, just the way they join the section appears to be different.

Smitty

 

[Squack]

Oldspook, I don't think you have looked at a Donnyfl, Huggetts, or any other system. I don't think you understand the struggle AOA had importing or why they glue all moderators on permanent.
You probably are not up to date on the fact several hundred form 1 applications were denied for material used.

 

[Texasplinker]

K baffles, look a lot like a Tesla Valve a proven design, even the STO brings it up in his discussion of attenuation methods. So which came first Tesla or K Baffles? My money is on Tesla. The function appears to be basically the same, just the way they join the section appears to be different.

Smitty

You are probably right that the tesla valve existed first.

While they look similar, they don't function similarly . The k baffle just provides a number of easily machined pockets for the compressed air to pressurize and then more slowly decompress from.

The tesla valve directs the flow of the gas back into its self to slow the velocity of the gas through the system.

 

[Smitty911]

You are probably right that the tesla valve existed first.

While they look similar, they don't function similarly . The k baffle just provides a number of easily machined pockets for the compressed air to pressurize and then more slowly decompress from.

The tesla valve directs the flow of the gas back into its self to slow the velocity of the gas through the system.

Plinker,
I get that, I watched those videos years ago, that's why I thought they looked similar.

Smitty

 

[pnwairgunner]

As I said originally, be careful.
Ever wonder why K-baffles sold don't have a hole in them? It comes down to intent or providing your intent in court.
It's like having a rifle next to a spotlight during deer season. You're going to have to fight for your rifle back.

I can't find the list of controlled parts, and I don't plan to see it on the wrong side of the bench.

I was told never to have a K-baffle outside of a suppressor, and I heed that warning.

Airforce Airguns have been commercially making and selling k baffles for airguns for years, WITH the hole. Airguns are not firearms.

 

[OldSpook]

Airforce Airguns have been commercially making and selling k baffles for airguns for years, WITH the hole. Airguns are not firearms.
View attachment 281136

I don't know why people do things like that. They are so determined to win their argument that the facts they cite mean nothing to them. When they are finally proven wrong they just wander off. In the end refusing to accept responsibility for the confusion they have caused and, I assume, hoping no one comes along to point it out again. Unfortunately it remains on the web forever and forever uncorrected.

"It is okay to take a dump. Only dogs are dumb enough to roll in it." - anon

These days too many people insist upon rolling in it.

 

[Squack]

pnwairgunner, Moderator vs. suppressor.
Moderators were fixed to the barrel or part of the airgun design. They were our only option years ago.
Suppressors are removable.

I'm well aware of "airguns are not firearms."

Lay a firearm suppressor and an airgun side by side. What is the difference? Neither is attached to the host system.

My first original statement was be careful and don't ruin it for the rest of us. But that was lost long ago in this rather unfriendly community.

 

[pnwairgunner]

It doesn’t actually seem to be unfriendly at all. You have nice people here offering to correct you but you won’t hear of it.
The terms “moderator”, “supressor” and all other terms like that are are synonymous. It doesn’t matter if you call it a “muffler” or a “thingamajig” …if it was designed to quieten the report of a firearm then it is a silencer. If it is designed for an air rifle and used solely for that purpose then it is fine and companies like Donnyfl and the rest can operate within the law.
By your reasoning, you could permanently weld a firearm silencer to your airgun and not need a stamp. That’s not the case.
The term “moderator” is actually the term used for “silencer” overseas. It has nothing to do with whether it is removable.
If anyone is blurring the line between firearms and airguns it is you, by using firearm silencers on your airguns. (Which is your choice and I really dont care in the least.)

 

[badger5th]

Did you actually read that court case I have repeatedly pointed you at? Look there is absolutely NO WAY for you to deny that there are dozens of manufacturers building moderators for AG use today and selling them through the mail and none of them are being investigated, charged, or harassed by B A T F. Why do you suppose that is?

The law has been interpreted. If "3LA" can't prove intent then the FFL does not apply. That's it. Believe me when I tell you, give them something they CAN prove intent with and they will. You CAN build a moderator which is safe and effective for an AG which will prove it was not ever intended for firearms use the first time some fool decides to test your intent by firing a firearm through it. "3LA" knows this as well as you and I know it.

Just one caveat. Don't import one. If you recall my late June thread regarding US Customs seizing air gun moderators, I have an update. The US CBP seized it in Miami. I received the seizure notice about two weeks ago in the mail. I got a consult with a Customs/Importation attorney in FL who works with Miami customs on a daily basis and is also a shooting enthusiast with airgun interest too. The legal advise that I received (my advise, not anyone else's) is nothing is going to come of this. Worst case, the attorney indicated, is an extremely small chance of the three letter bois knocking on (not kicking in) my door. He felt this to be extremely unlikely and "not to lose any sleep".

The seizure is real but it seems like to this point no one takes it further.

Buy American! Regards

 

[OldSpook]

Just one caveat. Don't import one. If you recall my late June thread regarding US Customs seizing air gun moderators, I have an update. The US CBP seized it in Miami. I received the seizure notice about two weeks ago in the mail. I got a consult with a Customs/Importation attorney in FL who works with Miami customs on a daily basis and is also a shooting enthusiast with airgun interest too. The legal advise that I received (my advise, not anyone else's) is nothing is going to come of this. Worst case, the attorney indicated, is an extremely small chance of the three letter bois knocking on (not kicking in) my door. He felt this to be extremely unlikely and "not to lose any sleep".

The seizure is real but it seems like to this point no one takes it further.

Buy American! Regards

Yeah, the problem there is they need to be inspected on the way in and the folks at the POE may or may not be familiar with the finer nuances. Sorry about your loss. I hope they give it back because it will indicate they are learning.