JSB .22 Redesign

[KodiakJac]

All I know is if I had a dollar for every time I thought I had that batch of magical pellets based on that previous magical batch of pellets based off lot numbers that I could afford to buy a new car. I wouldn’t need a new gun every 6mo. Trying to find the magic gun or barrel that will shoot the last batch of magical pellets that stopped shooting in my current gun!

That's why I think the explanation that Pavel gives in the JSB tour video above makes the most sense. One die used for any given order of private label pellets that produces the magic pellets, only for the magic pellets to disappear on the next order because a different die was used. It explains the variation everyone has experienced. And Pavel's body language when he answers Steve's question is as if he's coming clean on what's really going on.

 

[bob68]

Picked up my tins of Monster redesigns Shallow and Deep, and my Hades Monsters, AND my Grand redesigns... Excited!!
So far, the Shallows, Deep, and Hades are all extremely promising in my AvengeX Classic wood, @ 50 meters/55 yards, with the Shallows just slightly outperforming the others. The margin being a hair on a fruitfly's ballsack.
Will test mentioned pellets and the Grands in my AvengeX and my Wildcat BT Compact at 100 meters tomorrow.. Indoors that is.

 

[Franklink]

Picked up my tins of Monster redesigns Shallow and Deep, and my Hades Monsters, AND my Grand redesigns... Excited!!
So far, the Shallows, Deep, and Hades are all extremely promising in my AvengeX Classic wood, @ 50 meters/55 yards, with the Shallows just slightly outperforming the others. The margin being a hair on a fruitfly's ballsack.
Will test mentioned pellets and the Grands in my AvengeX and my Wildcat BT Compact at 100 meters tomorrow.. Indoors that is.

Glad to hear they're becoming available. Seeing your location, they've still got an ocean to cross for us, but glad to hear they're making their way to people's hands.

Let us know how those Grands do. I'm kinda interested in hearing how the Shallow and Deeps do, although I suspect I've already shot enough Shallows and Deeps in my lifetime to never want to shoot any more of them, but I'm EXTREMELY interested in these Grands.

 

[balver]

Picked up my tins of Monster redesigns Shallow and Deep, and my Hades Monsters, AND my Grand redesigns... Excited!!
So far, the Shallows, Deep, and Hades are all extremely promising in my AvengeX Classic wood, @ 50 meters/55 yards, with the Shallows just slightly outperforming the others. The margin being a hair on a fruitfly's ballsack.
Will test mentioned pellets and the Grands in my AvengeX and my Wildcat BT Compact at 100 meters tomorrow.. Indoors that is.

Regarding the fruitfly's ballsack hair, would that be a metric measurement?

 

[KodiakJac]

Now, help me keep this straight...

The Shallows are what was most recently being produced prior to the new Deeps that are just coming out that are supposed to be the MRD design favored by the benchrest crowd a few years ago?

 

[Centercut]

Now, help me keep this straight...

The Shallows are what was most recently being produced prior to the new Deeps that are just coming out that are supposed to be the MRD design favored by the benchrest crowd a few years ago?

Nope. The older version 2017-18 were shallow cavity. Then JSB changed to deep cavity for whatever reason. Then less than a year ago they went back to a semi shallow cavity. Now they have deep, shallow, and grande. Let’s not pretend the old version was perfect. The shallows shot great but still threw a flyer every now and then, just not nearly as much as the deep. Hopefully the 28 grain Grande shoot well without the flyers.

 

[igolfat8]

. Then JSB changed to deep cavity for whatever reason.

Mike, I believe Predator said the shallows were discontinued because of higher than normal skirt damage during shipping. It will be interesting to see if the new shallow pellets will have the thin skirts that the original ones had or if they thickened up the skirts on the newly released shallow MRDs?

 

[Centercut]

Mike, I believe Predator said the shallows were discontinued because of higher than normal skirt damage during shipping. It will be interesting to see if the new shallow pellets will have the thin skirts that the original ones had or if they thickened up the skirts on the newly released shallow MRDs?

And that’s where I pressed my I Believe button and it didn’t work.

Ok, let’s take the shallow cavity with thicker skirts, and say they are getting damage in shipment, then replace them with deep cavity and thinner skirt?

Funny this was about the same time that they replaced the .25 King Heavy from deep to shallow cavity. So the opposite action but the same reason?

Not buying what they’re selling….

 

[bob68]

I don't think the skirts on either of them are very thick, to be honest.....

 

[bob68]

And yes, the fruitfly's ballsack hair unit is defenitely a metric unit measurement.... Duh...

 

[mercado]

Reading this tread is why I only shoot slugs..they tend to be way more consistent.. I have pellets yes .. but only for that kind of occasion when a hurricane cat 5 blast us so bad that there is no power for months..and air for the tanks gets really hard to find.. otherwise only slugs..

 

[dgeesaman]

My question is as a pellet how good are they a 100 yards? I have pretty good accuracy with the18.13 JSBs but want to try the 25gr looking for opinions

I shot them some last fall at 50fpe or so and at times there were flashes of brilliance. Over enough shots I saw inconsistency. I have some of the JTS and the same basic results.

I’m at the very beginning of a journey that may end up following Franklinks footsteps. I have yet to test tunes down to 850fps and I’m sure my current tune is neither efficient nor refined. I have not sorted MRDs yet either. It’s on my to do list for early 2024.

That said unless my barrel particularly likes them I’m not too optimistic.

 

[Franklink]

Reading this tread is why I only shoot slugs..they tend to be way more consistent.. I have pellets yes .. but only for that kind of occasion when a hurricane cat 5 blast us so bad that there is no power for months..and air for the tanks gets really hard to find.. otherwise only slugs..

I've gotta disagree.

A quality barrel (CZ/LW/TJ,etc) that will shoot slugs acceptably has been a roughly 2/40 (call it 1/20) occurrence, in my personal experience. And that's testing multiple slugs in each of those 40ish barrels.

Whereas most barrels from those same reputable barrel makers will shoot pellets quite well.

The stinker here is the .22 Monster RDs. Not pellets in general. Most pellets don't even need sorted to clean field target courses. The only pellet I've ever even bothered sorting was the .22 Monster RD. The ft courses I've cleaned and the matches that I've won with 1 or 2 misses were all shot with unsorted pellets (those matches were not the #@$@-#!@_ .22 Monster RDs).

 

[dgeesaman]

Pellets were not meant to shoot 100y. If you want wind resistance at 100y you will be flirting with spirals. It's really that simple.

There is an application: extreme field target. Slugs are not permitted and in my club’s incarnation of XFT, it goes to 110y.

Now considering that XFT lacks a National organization, it might always remain a fringe application. But I think ignoring it would be a mistake. I know some serious FT shooters who are getting interested in higher power and longer ranges from XFT.

David

 

[thomasair]

I'm not saying that people don't want them to shoot at 100. Everybody wants their cake and to eat it too.

They can be shot well at 100 and much further....but everything has to be right for that to happen with consistency. There is no forgiveness built in to the monster. Factory barrels are poor matches to deal with zero forgiveness pellets...but there are some factory unicorns once in a while.

You can deal with what is available on its terms... or just complain that they don't work with what you have and shoot something else. Many are hoping the 28 gr are going to be super forgiving like 18 gr....but I doubt it. They will probably be fussy too. I have hope that they will be great, too...but only a little. Even so... they will be made on multiple dies and be subject to variance. Pellets will be pellets....especially when made in high production.

Mike

 

[Franklink]

or just complain that they don't work with what you have....

Mike

Here's the list of failed attempts with .22 MRDs that I can remember right now, there are likely others that aren't coming to mind (PTSD from the traumatic experience and all, just kidding-first world problems) ....

5 groove polygonal rifled 1:30, speeds from 870-1030 = fail
5 groove polygonal rifled 1:17.7, speeds from 870-940 = fail
12 groove traditionally rifled 1:17.7, speeds from 840-960 = fail
5 groove traditionally rifled 1:22, speeds from 850-1030 = fail
6 groove polygonal rifled 1:32, speeds from 860-980 = fail
3 groove traditionally rifled 1:18, speeds from 840-940 = fail

Some of the above were multiple examples of the same barrel specs. Some were choked, some were unchoked. A handful of them I eased up the choke through rod lapping and/or firelapping. And a handful of them I even tried full length taper lapping. And this is not all from the same gun. Various guns were used to test this plethora of barrels.

Sure, my lapping skills and my barrel knowledge is not at your level, but come the heck on! That's a lot of barrels in a lot of variations, for them to ALL have the same problem of too many "what the @#*&!!!" shots on paper with the .22 Monster RDs at 100 yards.

 

[Franklink]

I'm not asking for perfection from a pellet at 100 yards. For most of us mere mortals, all shots within 0.5inches at 100 yards is simply not realistic.

All I'm asking for is the pellet to go where it should, when I read the wind correctly. When I've got pellets veering off or spiraling, or even going opposite of the wind direction I know it's a pellet problem.

I'm not even asking for MOA, hell, I'd be pretty dang satisfied if the .22 Monster RD would keep em all in 1.25" WHEN I read the wind correctly. The frustration for me is having them go somewhere different than my trigger break and the wind says they should have gone. And if it was that way with everything that I shoot to 100 yards I'd just chalk it up to being a poor marksmen. But when I can bust out the .20/15.89 pellets, or one of the rare exceptions of a good slug, and have them all behave accordingly on paper at 100 yards....well then I know I've got a pellet problem, not an operator issue.

 

[mercado]

I've gotta disagree.

A quality barrel (CZ/LW/TJ,etc) that will shoot slugs acceptably has been a roughly 2/40 (call it 1/20) occurrence, in my personal experience. And that's testing multiple slugs in each of those 40ish barrels.

Whereas most barrels from those same reputable barrel makers will shoot pellets quite well.

The stinker here is the .22 Monster RDs. Not pellets in general. Most pellets don't even need sorted to clean field target courses. The only pellet I've ever even bothered sorting was the .22 Monster RD. The ft courses I've cleaned and the matches that I've won with 1 or 2 misses were all shot with unsorted pellets (those matches were not the #@$@-#!@_ .22 Monster RDs).

I usually shoot from 100y + that is why i don't use the . Because at longer distance you could really see the difference if there is a problem in the tin ... but I agree for close work pellets do just fine.. I pre ordered 2 tins of each + 10 tins of the jsb grand.. let see how it goes..

 

[Centercut]

There is an application: extreme field target. Slugs are not permitted and in my club’s incarnation of XFT, it goes to 110y.

Now considering that XFT lacks a National organization, it might always remain a fringe application. But I think ignoring it would be a mistake. I know some serious FT shooters who are getting interested in higher power and longer ranges from XFT.

David

Extreme Field Target does have a National Organization, a GP series, and a National Championship.

https://extremefieldtarget.com/index.html

 

[Franklink]

Extreme Field Target does have a National Organization, a GP series, and a National Championship.

https://extremefieldtarget.com/index.html

Certainly debatable. Notice he said XFT, there's also Ultimate Field Target.

Long range/high power field target isn't owned by anyone.