Is Open class suffering a slow death?
- Thread starter Franklink
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Knobs, I resemble that
That's great!
Bill,
I'm usually on the same page with you, but in this case I don't think the Hunter class needs 24x. 16x is OK.
Bipods make a really big difference and that advantage needs a counter balance... Jackets & scope power are the only ones that's reasonable.
I do agree that MDs should not be allowed to disguise the blocks or angle them. It's harder, but I assume the kill zones are normal 1 -9/16" and range find on the kill zone most of the time. I can usually tell when they are not standard and forego bracketing if so, or one can also bracket the base of the target... usually that is consistent also.
I would hope the BoG would add that the blocks, if used, must be aligned squarely to the shooting box. That might be worth a formal proposal to the AAFTA Board.
Wayne
That's great! Bill,
I'm usually on the same page with you, but in this case I don't think the Hunter class needs 24x. 16x is OK.
Bipods make a really big difference and that advantage needs a counter balance... Jackets & scope power are the only ones that's reasonable.
I do agree that MDs should not be allowed to disguise the blocks or angle them. It's harder, but I assume the kill zones are normal 1 -9/16" and range find on the kill zone most of the time. I can usually tell when they are not standard and forego bracketing if so, or one can also bracket the base of the target... usually that is consistent also.
I would hope the BoG would add that the blocks, if used, must be aligned squarely to the shooting box. That might be worth a formal proposal to the AAFTA Board.
Wayne
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Just further supports just TWO primary classes ( Outside sub Piston category ) of The International WFTF as 1st, then OPEN Class that allows any legal >20 fpe gun, optics & gear afforded by the current class rules within the AAFTA as the 2nd.Knobs, I resemble that
Bill,
I'm usually on the same page with you, but in this case I don't think the Hunter class needs 24x. 16x is OK.
Bipods make a really big difference and that advantage needs a counter balance... Jackets & scope power are the only ones that's reasonable.
I do agree that MDs should not be allowed to disguise the blocks or angle them. It's harder, but I assume the kill zones are normal 1 -9/16" and range find on the kill zone most of the time. I can usually tell when they are not standard and forego bracketing if so, or one can also bracket the base of the target... usually that is consistent also.
I would hope the BoG would add that the blocks, if used, must be aligned squarely to the shooting box. That might be worth a formal proposal to the AAFTA Board.
Wayne
All the bickering, personal wants and desires will have a result that has near always been ... NOTHING GETS DONE, NOTHING CHANGES and the game of Field Target as we play here in the USA will stagnate further as More Inclusive & Forward thinking air gun sports get the attention of new shooters and their participation.
JMO ... which miens little
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For those wanting higher magnification in Hunter class just shoot unlimited and do whatever you want to knock down targets and make it easier than it already is. I think instead of any rule changes in Hunter class if AAFTA recognized a Unlimited class that would satisfy the few that want changes in Hunter class due to their aging eye problems.
That would be great if there was a Hunter class limited to 12ft lbs and a 10x scope. Let's play the game the way the rest of the world plays it. Here in Ohio I don't hear of any Hunter guys complaining about 16x limit.
That would be great if there was a Hunter class limited to 12ft lbs and a 10x scope. Let's play the game the way the rest of the world plays it. Here in Ohio I don't hear of any Hunter guys complaining about 16x limit.
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That was the intent for MANY match directors ACROSS the country ... Going back now what 7 years !!
It was and still remains a great idea ... Tho time after all these years now tell that tale very well ... I only see it beating a dead horse.
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I would like to ask a question about this. Why are the blocks hidden or discussed? Also is there a reason that sometimes the targets are flat painted? I shoot a 15x scope and sometimes walk away from a target not knowing if I shot high, low or what. I really dont have a problem with what I wrote above. I figure its equal for everyone shooting that day but do wonder. After years of competition I have came to the place where I really don't care about the other guys score, winning only means there wasn't someone there at that time that wasn't better. Because there is always someone better.
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i have been involved in many hobby's . In all of the things i have been involved in 10 people is the high number of workers. but it is not the limited workers I think it is the travel (time/ expense ) for me it is at least 3 hours one way and a different state to shoot an FT course . Maybe if people had a single lane or two ? even an open area no woods setting , really Field Target , some place to practice and be among others weather one or more people . I think that would be a boost to this game we play
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It seems there are some with the very (strong) opinion that bucket and sticks with 16x is much easier than 60x, dialing turret, and support girdle on thick bum bag seat. I’ve only shot 5 AAFTA matches, all Hunter, so I’m a newby to FT.
But I have been doing Extreme FT since the beginning and have done OK in the approx 20 matches that I’ve shot.
I’m writing because I don’t know how many times I’ve heard “ya know, if only I could sit on my cushy bum bag with my support girdle I’d be so much more steady and shoot higher scores”.
I honestly can’t say one way or the other but it seems to me that what you gain in Open makes up for what you lose in Hunter. Of the five larger FT events I’ve shot West area I think in four of them Hunter had the high overall score, and in 2021 Nationals Hunter also had high overall score…. Hard to say if this is because Hunter is easier or if the better shooters shot Hunter?
But I have been doing Extreme FT since the beginning and have done OK in the approx 20 matches that I’ve shot.
I’m writing because I don’t know how many times I’ve heard “ya know, if only I could sit on my cushy bum bag with my support girdle I’d be so much more steady and shoot higher scores”.
I honestly can’t say one way or the other but it seems to me that what you gain in Open makes up for what you lose in Hunter. Of the five larger FT events I’ve shot West area I think in four of them Hunter had the high overall score, and in 2021 Nationals Hunter also had high overall score…. Hard to say if this is because Hunter is easier or if the better shooters shot Hunter?
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Kdog, I believe I stated I was hoping to try the Open class next year. At 75 I'm not sure if I will be able to do it without a few physical therapy sessions. With total knee replacements I think the kneeling shots will only be done standing for lack of range of motion as they are now. The hunter class either sits on the ground or uses a bucket / seat without a back or arms on them. As far a shooting goes I practice as much as anyone and I shoot Benchrest usually most of the winter. In 2010 I won my first and only National in the Hunter PCP class. Over the last 12 years I have placed in the top five most of that time and won a few GP's on the journey. Actually, I am hoping and planning for another title this year (But have learned at my age somethings don't always pan out the way you would like them to). If the Open class doesn't work out for me next year I might even try Hunter piston. I have been wanting to for the last few years but still challenged for one more PCP title.
My days of FT are likely on the other side of the Hill but I would Love to shoot the Worlds here in the U.S.A in 2024. As far a Hunter PCP goes there is an abundant of Hunter PCP shooters trying the best with scopes that will not range well enough on 16X to allow them to shoot higher scores. Sure, likely some of them could shoot open but they like the hunter class or not ready for another big investment. I'm far from alone in wanting parity with the other classes on the scope ranging issue and I think just 24x would work a heck of a lot better than 16x we all use now. If we could make that materialize I think it would be beneficial to the Hunter class for years to come and a lot less complaining overall.
Mike T, I realize if I could do the Open PCP class that many benefits would come with that privilege and if I could do it I will at least add one more member to class roster.
Beer Thief, Fields do take up a lot less room for a course and a lot of two day GP's have one day in the field and the other in the woods. The only negative of field shooting is the wind and where the sun is at the time you are shooting it. I personally like the field / woods for it breaks the FT shooting up.
My days of FT are likely on the other side of the Hill but I would Love to shoot the Worlds here in the U.S.A in 2024. As far a Hunter PCP goes there is an abundant of Hunter PCP shooters trying the best with scopes that will not range well enough on 16X to allow them to shoot higher scores. Sure, likely some of them could shoot open but they like the hunter class or not ready for another big investment. I'm far from alone in wanting parity with the other classes on the scope ranging issue and I think just 24x would work a heck of a lot better than 16x we all use now. If we could make that materialize I think it would be beneficial to the Hunter class for years to come and a lot less complaining overall.
Mike T, I realize if I could do the Open PCP class that many benefits would come with that privilege and if I could do it I will at least add one more member to class roster.
Beer Thief, Fields do take up a lot less room for a course and a lot of two day GP's have one day in the field and the other in the woods. The only negative of field shooting is the wind and where the sun is at the time you are shooting it. I personally like the field / woods for it breaks the FT shooting up.
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Mike,
This year I have shot about 18 matches in Open PCP class...5 matches WFTF PCP(newby in this division) and 2 in Hunter class, I'll finish off the year shooting Hunter Piston 4 matches. A few years ago I shot Hunter exclusively. For me by far shooting off of sticks is the most steady...with a harness in open I rarely do not have some kind of movement in the KZ with my scope(something I call the wobbles) lastly by far the hardest to keep steady is shooting WFTF.
In open what I gain in higher magnification I loose in how stable I am. Yes even with the man bra I am not completely steady. In my experience I can shoot about the same scores in Hunter class as I can in Open. I prefer to shoot open because I much prefer shooting off a bum bag then carry around a bucket and sticks.
I just don't see a need to change any rules in Hunter division,or any division for that matter. FT shooting is a very niche sport due to the equipment we use and because airguns for the most part are not very popular in the mainstream.
I really can care less what division anyone shoots...as long as their enjoying themselves and being safe while doing it. Just dont see the need to change Hunter rules because of aging eyes.
This year I have shot about 18 matches in Open PCP class...5 matches WFTF PCP(newby in this division) and 2 in Hunter class, I'll finish off the year shooting Hunter Piston 4 matches. A few years ago I shot Hunter exclusively. For me by far shooting off of sticks is the most steady...with a harness in open I rarely do not have some kind of movement in the KZ with my scope(something I call the wobbles) lastly by far the hardest to keep steady is shooting WFTF.
In open what I gain in higher magnification I loose in how stable I am. Yes even with the man bra I am not completely steady. In my experience I can shoot about the same scores in Hunter class as I can in Open. I prefer to shoot open because I much prefer shooting off a bum bag then carry around a bucket and sticks.
I just don't see a need to change any rules in Hunter division,or any division for that matter. FT shooting is a very niche sport due to the equipment we use and because airguns for the most part are not very popular in the mainstream.
I really can care less what division anyone shoots...as long as their enjoying themselves and being safe while doing it. Just dont see the need to change Hunter rules because of aging eyes.
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Keep the classes as they are ... BUT ADD FREESTYLE and we create a lot more willingness for some to Start shooting FT or for some to STAY shooting FT
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I don’t really care which Division I shoot in as I shoot them mostly all the same. Usually just a matter of which box I decide to check off. I don’t usually use a bucket, sticks, jacket, harness, riser, butthook, sling…so it’s all about the same, even pistol. I usually shoot Hunter but have shot them all.
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Scott, You are made of rubber. Have seen very few shooters that sit straddled legs, lay their cheek on their right knee and aim and shoot like you can.
You are really gifted and a shooter I have a lot of respect for.
Bill Day
You are really gifted and a shooter I have a lot of respect for.
Bill Day
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I don't know what the deal is with the aging eyes. At 16x you can't range for S--t on the long shorts with most 16x scopes. I have never used the new Night Force scopes that have made their way into the game in the hunter class but I have 3 Sightron III 10-50x56 that just won't do it. I have had my cataracts removed and my eyes are as near 20-20 as I ever remember them. It didn't help my color blindness, but I don't know of anything that will.
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Why not just combine open/unlimited and hunter? Let’s just call it open hunter. If people start to get perfect score all the time then Just shrink the KZ.
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Bill,
Don’t know if anyone really wants to hear it, but I’ve got issues too with aging, etc. Long term neuropathy in my feet and some in my legs, making it hard to stand steady for offhand/standing, and a shooting jacket is not going to fix that. I just accept that 50% is as good as I’ll probably ever do for offhand FT. Eyes getting worse every year to the point that it’s hard to tell if something is in focus. Probably surgery someday, but I’ll delay that as long as possible. I can’t eat whatever I want like I used to and I watch my diet when I see my weight creeping up. I try to stay limber with some practice. I realized this year (after trying again) that I need to give up piston guns for good. My shoulders can’t take the repetitive motion anymore. I sold my D54 a few years ago because of that, and even my 12fpe TX200 is now too much. I’ll sell it too. I’m 10years younger than you, but see it coming. I hope my FT shooting holds up as well as yours.
I respect your continued relatively high level of FT shooting.
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Yes, I agree...
I think after a lot of years of tweaking, we finally got the Hunter class rules about right. As said above, Hunter class wins overall high score about as often as not.
We do need a class for us older guys as we can't do what we use to. Hunter is a stepping stone and some can stay there a long time.
But, we do WANT to shoot as good a score as we use to as we age, and if we want to keep the limited group of competitors we have now involved, then we need a class for them to compete in... Something like the "Unlimited" we have tried and discussed. Any accessory allowed in any AAFTA class.
Now it might be fine to merge Open class into the new "Unlimited" considering the small numbers of competitors.... I don't know if that would fly to well.
We might consider rules for who can shoot in the Unlimited class, but that gets really tricky, not sure if it's realistic.
Wayne
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Scott H Sorry to learn of your neuropathy I know how feet burning problems feel and if it is caused diabetes by 2 controlling you A1C to a 7.0 or lower can help prevent it from getting worst. It likely won't vacate but if it advances it can really mess your life up. I have lost about 40-45 lbs in the last two years so my mobility is somewhat better than it use to be but my strength isn't close to what it use to be. I thought it was just the age thing but I was just reading a e-mail that taking metformin causes one muscles to shrink. I have got to talk to my Doctor about that for I have been taking 2,000 mgs and day since 2000.
Age affects us all in different ways so we need to do what we can to keep kicking, and controlled ranting once in a while is good for the soul.
Age affects us all in different ways so we need to do what we can to keep kicking, and controlled ranting once in a while is good for the soul.
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Tom, every rule change we have made to the Hunter class has increased it popularity and that's a top reason why we are the biggest class. I could be wrong for I was once before.
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The EFT match results for this years GP tell a interesting story. A very mixed bag of podium winners. I attribute this to less controls in equipment and tournament flexibility. I think it’s good for growth. I am convinced that Hunter Ft grows for the same reason and Open is stuck in the middle between Wftf ( formula 1 ) and Hunter ( NASCAR ). Does that make Open NHRA or INDY. 
Rob.
Rob.
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